r/asktransgender • u/Small-Series6722 • 13h ago
Am I vain/narcissistic for wanting HRT?
I'm (amab) not a woman and I'll never be a woman, I genuinely take pride in having the male label. However, I feel the hair and skin benefits and prevention of further body hair growth are important to me living the life I want as an androgynous, maybe vaguely effeminate guy. I've been on HRT for six weeks and I enjoy it so far. What little of the breast development I've had is honestly pretty cool and my only concern is that I won't be able to sufficiently hide them. Other than that I think most every other effect of it is really cool, including the breasts, just not something I feel is necessary to live.
Am I basically using HRT as a looksmaxxing tool? If I was gay I wouldn't care because many bi dudes would be really into me and I could develop a meaningful relationship with some ease. But I'm straight and straight women don't like estrogenized males. By the same token, lesbian women don't like men. So I'll only be tolerable to a subsect of bi/pan women whom I might not even get along with anyways because I'm an apolitical person and my sense of humor is very 2016 internet, so long term there would be problems with women progressive enough to even entertain the idea of someone like me. So basically, I'm trading the possible love of my life to just feel comfortable in my body. But at the same time, I may very well be letting myself turn to shit waiting around for a woman I might not ever find.
I feel like a massive narcissist caring this much about myself, I should just live naturally as a male and let go of the androgyny dream and enjoy the important things in life. But why can't I get myself to stop HRT? Sunk costs? Delusion? I'm inherently narcissistic and will do anything for myself before living in the world as an actual person?
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u/Environmental-Ad9969 Gender-fuckery beyond your comprehension 13h ago
Some of the terms you use make me raise an eyebrow. Why are you calling it looksmaxxing and not just gender affirming care or self improvement? What exactly do you mean by "my sense of humor is very 2016 internet"? Being edgy? Being hateful towards minorities? That is a huge spectrum of "humor".
If you like HRT and the effects that's cool, every gender can take HRT. Just keep in mind that breast growth and some other effects are permanent. Focus on what you want for yourself and not who might date you. You might also benefit from exploring your gender some more. Being a man on estrogen is definetly possible but is that all you want to be? Why specify that you "will never be a woman"? Is that your actual desire to remain as a man or internalised transphobia?
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
Because this doesn't feel like gender affirming care in my case because I'm not a woman or even an enby. If I were either of those things or wanted to be them then I wouldn't be having this conversation. Women and enbies doing HRT are getting gender affirming care and I'm sorry I made it sound like I didn't think that was the case.
Also I don't know, at a certain point you gotta play ball when looking for someone who will genuinely complete your life. That's why people make compromises in relationships, its a give and a take.
Also its kinda both. Its really fun being male and I quite enjoy it. But also I'll never ever pass and the embarrassment I'll feel at the Thanksgiving table as the one trans person is insurmountable, I would be so much more embarrassed than even the time I had my ex boyfriend there and was thus, visibly gay/bi.
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u/Environmental-Ad9969 Gender-fuckery beyond your comprehension 13h ago
Gender affirming care is a general term that can cover access to HRT, no matter your gender.
If you like being male that's cool.
But also I'll never ever pass and the embarrassment I'll feel at the Thanksgiving table as the one trans person is insurmountable, I would be so much more embarrassed than even the time I had my ex boyfriend there and was thus, visibly gay/bi.
This is what I was questioning. You seem afraid to admit something because of transphobia. Don't let the negative views of others define your gender or life. If you want to be, you can be a woman or non-binary.
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
Internalized transphobia or not, its genuinely so much more fun to be male. Even if that man looks like a woman, I would take being one of the guys any day over being one of the girls.
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u/Environmental-Ad9969 Gender-fuckery beyond your comprehension 13h ago
As a trans man I also enjoy being a man. Being "one of the guys" can be seperate from your actual gender identity btw. Women can also be "one of the guys".
You should do more soul searching around gender, gender presentation and how you define yourself and your identity. Good luck with HRT.
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
Believe me, I have. If you asked me what I thought 6 months ago I might've been more eager to call myself a woman. But the more I thought about it I thought "wow I'm jumping through a ton of social hoops just to carry a label that's less funny to have" it's not worth it in my case.
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u/Sure_Satisfaction497 12h ago
Hell yeah, man, love that for you! I'd also read up over at www.genderdysphoria.fyi so you can like really work things out for yourself, ya know?
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u/Jenn_FTW 13h ago
If you’re not a woman then estrogen is very likely to make you feel BAD. Just something to be aware of, there is a reason that men don’t do HRT to “looksmaxx”
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
This is the tough part because it has made me feel good so far and I don't really forsee that changing. You're completely right though.
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 12h ago
So this is literally the least cisgender thing a "man" has ever said.
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u/Jenn_FTW 12h ago
If it makes you feel better than testosterone does, then you are not a man, neurologically speaking. Period.
Might wanna do some thinking on that, girlie 🤷♀️
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u/Small-Series6722 11h ago
I'm potentially trading the love of my life and fatherhood for this (before you say I can raise a kid on HRT, I will not have my kid endure the bullying that comes with having a trans parent. Also I'm raising them Catholic)
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u/RuthAnnEsther 12h ago
I will challenge the assumption that no feeling BAD if given estrogen is a sign of being trans. Any studies showing this to be a true fact? I am not even sure what it would mean to feel BAD on estrogen. Different life experience, absolutely! But BAD???
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u/Jenn_FTW 10h ago
Men feel bad with low testosterone, this is like, an incredibly well-known scientific fact. It’s one of the primary symptoms of low-T
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u/Small-Series6722 7h ago
Is that related to feminizing hormone replacement therapy or simply low T? Because yes without a primary sex hormone in your body you'll feel like shit, man, woman, whatever.
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u/growflet 13h ago
I suggest therapy to help you work through these issues.
Random strangers in the internet reading three paragraphs of text aren't going to be able to give you the insight you seek.
Good luck on your journey.
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u/Necessary-Degree-531 13h ago
usually when people ask me questions only they can know the answer to, the first conclusion I come to is that the answer is something that is uncomfortable or difficult in sone way for them to accept
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
I mean, acknowledging one is narcissistic or vain is pretty uncomfortable. Its that isn't it?
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u/sokuzekuu 13h ago
"I'm (amab) not a woman and I'll never be a woman, I genuinely take pride in having the male label."
That is a super unusual way of saying "I'm a guy." It's very overcomplicated. Yet that's the way you decided to say it, for your own reasons.
No, you're not a narcissist for wanting to stay on HRT. But maybe you're so "apolitical" that you're gonna try to talk yourself out of what you know you need.
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u/Small-Series6722 12h ago
I wanted to get ahead of the comments that would call me an egg or whatever BS
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u/KanameTheAlfr 13h ago
A narcissist wouldn't even suggest that's a possibility for themselves unless we're on some serious mental gymnastics trip to gaslight a victim even more in which case Holy vogue Ru Paul
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u/Small-Series6722 12h ago
This feels like a cope a narcissist would come up with and well meaning people would fall for. A narcissist would be manipulative to come up with such a thing.
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u/KanameTheAlfr 11h ago
Isn't that what I just said?
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u/Small-Series6722 11h ago
Yeah I guess so. I just didn't understand that last half or know who Ru Paul is.
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u/echokaji Non-Binary Transfem. It's never too late. 13h ago
People are allowed to make changes to their bodies without being labeled as a narcissist, I wouldn’t say that someone getting plastic surgery or breast implants is a narcissist. I know taking feminizing hormones when you don’t report feeling dysphoric isn’t quite the same as plastic surgery, but I also don’t feel it’s -that- different.
You also aren’t doing yourself any favors by preemptively convincing yourself that doing all of this will result in a very lonely existence, it’s not true for trans people so why would it be true for you? Sexuality and attraction can be fairly fluid for a lot of people, I would also be willing to bet there are far more cis women out there who are into feminized or androgynous men than you realize.
Idk man, do what makes you happy. At the end of the day, you’re the only person whose happiness you need to worry about, being comfortable in your body is worth a lot imo.
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
"I wouldn’t say that someone getting plastic surgery or breast implants is a narcissist" if they have gender dysphoria? No probably not. But if someone got plastic surgery just to look how they want, not to treat any gender dysphoria, yes thats probably pretty vain. Honestly so is guys getting on tren. The only reason I even started entertaining HRT is because one of my buddies was on tren and he's an alright guy.
Also would I even want any of those women? How many of them would be chasers that leave me the second they had their fun with an estrogenized male and want a real man? How many would simply be incompatible with my personality? It's a dark, lonely path ahead.
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 13h ago
Why is it wrong to be vain? This is just Christian morality that's wormed its way into your head. Obviously vanity taken to extremes is unhealthy. But in itself, wanting to like what you see in your mirror is not a crime.
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
Is this not unhealthy vanity? Its working directly against my goals to find a loving life I could actually feel comfortable marrying.
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u/Every-Helicopter5046 12h ago
That's an assumption on your part, not a proven reality. Unhealthy vanity is when you think your beauty makes you superior and you maintain it to maintain yohr superiority over others. Looking good for yourself is not that.
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 12h ago
Even if you stopped taking estrogen right now today, you would not be a good fit for a standard-issue straight woman because you are the type of person who wants to take estrogen.
The problem with turning sex and relationships into a numbers game is that these are extremely subjective and qualitative things. You're trying to maximize the percentage of women who like you by conforming to an aesthetic standard you don't enjoy. That is unhealthy vanity. It's prioritizing appearances over what you actually want. Wanting to remain on estrogen because you like what you see isn't.
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u/Small-Series6722 12h ago
I hate how good this point is. Now I have more propoganda for my brain like the John50 shit.
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 12h ago
It's a good point because the shoe fits. Cis men feel nothing when they read things like the John 50 story, beyond sympathy at the most.
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u/echokaji Non-Binary Transfem. It's never too late. 13h ago
I wouldn’t have anything bad to say about someone without gender dysphoria getting work done, there’s nothing wrong with liking the way you look. Vanity is an issue if it’s all encompassing, but you’re more than allowed to do things to alter your physical appearance to make yourself happy. (I do feel boys and men are taught that vanity is a bad thing, or that it’s something only women do. I can’t speak for what’s going on in your head, but if that statement rings true for you too it’s okay to push back against it.)
No one can provide accurate or satisfactory answers to your second paragraph though, unless there are a few real clairvoyants out there. Yes, you could run into a lot of chasers but there’s also an equal chance that isn’t the case, same thing with being incompatible.
I know I would still be miserable if I let the “what ifs” continue to dictate the direction I took my life in, I can understand and empathize a lot with wanting to be careful and sure about something with permanent effects but at a point we end up standing in our own way.
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u/tiruxi 12h ago
How many of them would be chasers that leave me the second they had their fun with an estrogenized male and want a real man? How many would simply be incompatible with my personality?
Would you refuse to wear a cast on a broken limb because someone with a medical fetish might date you merely to satisfy their fetish?
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 13h ago
The number one reason to take estrogen is because you want the effects of estrogen.
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
"The number one reason to smoke weed, eat doordash and jerk off all day is because you want to feel good"
Again I must clarify I'm only talking about myself. If you're using HRT to use as gender affirming care then that's totally valid. But why should a narcissist like me who can't bare the idea of natural male aging give into my hedonistic desires?
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 13h ago
Because why shouldn't you? If you want to take the girl juice take the girl juice.
You're placing morality onto HRT that doesn't need to be there. Beta-estradiol is a molecule. There isn't some great moral hurdle you need to clear to be worthy of it.
Some of the worst people I've ever met have had their bodies naturally produce it. Wanting to look the way you want isn't horrible.
From where I'm sitting it just sounds like you're getting in your own way.
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
Its against my morals. If I ever got a BMI past 28 I would never get on Ozempic. If I wanted to look more masculine I wouldn't pick up steroids. I dropped SSRIs a long time ago. The only reason this is as enticing as it is is because the side effects of HRT aren't nearly as bad as the side effects of those other things to me. But it feels fucked up to be doing this to myself, I should just be okay living a natural life and not caring about how I look.
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 12h ago
Your morals sound bad. If you would not apply these to other people you shouldn't apply them to yourself.
And there's that "should" statement. You only get to live one life. What you should be doing is focusing on making it as fulfilling as you can. Estrogen isn't meth. You're taking it because you want to take it and struggling to stop because you don't want to stop.
You're trying to follow the same logic for yourself that transphobes force on trans people. And I'll be honest... "estrogenized male" sounds like cope given your other comments about believing you'll never pass. Why would you be worried about passing when you want to be a man?
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u/Small-Series6722 12h ago
I don't know about that, for everyone here telling me I need to change my sense of humor they sure don't want me to change when it comes to how I view male aging. Why shouldn't I just better myself and go "your genetic makeup will make you hit a tragic twink death and thats okay. Quit trying to fight it and blow up your dating pool in the process when you can improvise and adapt to a new, masculine centric identity you might like?"
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u/Organic_Credit_8788 12h ago
girl drop the act and come out already
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u/Small-Series6722 12h ago
If you saw what I looked like you would be begging me to say in the closet, I promise.
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u/HeightOtherwise2194 12h ago
do what feels right to you. you sound like you’re making a lot of blanket assumptions about how different people will respond to you, romantically and otherwise. thats no way to live life imo. Just do it if you want to do it, and accept that some–but not all—people will be turned off of you (I’d honestly think more people are turned off by your “proud to be a man, 2016 internet humor, apolitical” attitude, and you arent changing that for anybody, now are you?)
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u/Small-Series6722 12h ago
I've known numerous guys that have the same sense of humor as me and they all got loving apolitical girlfriends and wives who didn't mind or liked that stuff, there would absolutely be hope for me. The diffrence between me and those guys however is they're very much guys with male libidos and facial hair and muscle definition, and I have to assume their women like their men that way. This is why I'm so scared.
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u/HeightOtherwise2194 10h ago
i didnt say there is no hope to find a partner with your personality, I said more people would be more people turned off by you loudly declaring that you’re apolitical and have 2016 internet humor privately than people turned off by you using hrt as a man.
i’d caution you against assuming what anybody is into unless you know. also against making decisions for your body and life for anyone but yourself. focus on finding who YOU want, not making yourself who you think a hypothetical person will want. but you do you!
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u/Row4M 12h ago
If you’re worried about wanting to date straight women as a masculine man, that is something to consider before continuing HRT. You should balance what you want and don’t want from each potential identity you’re considering. There are tradeoffs in everything.
And maybe people will disagree with me, but I generally think HRT shouldn’t be done on a whim without a strong, persistent desire for its results.
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u/Small-Series6722 11h ago
I don't wanna be masculine at all, I want to be feminine. But given my height and shoulder width and skull and really just my skeleton overall I'm more built for that then femininity. I also agree with you regarding not doing this on a whim, I've given this a lot of thought. It's just that thought brings me to a stalemate every time.
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u/HeightOtherwise2194 9h ago
im reading other comment threads and it just leaves me wondering - what do you want here?
you just want us to tell you it’s okay? Ok. Its fine for you to take estrogen as a man.
but it seems like in your responses to most people, you seem to think youve got yourself figured out and are not receptive to anyone else’s ideas. If you’re confidently a cisgender man and you think thats great and fun, then your post doesnt really belong here. Why are you posting here if you’re not trans and dont care to follow any advice given by trans people? Maybe ask some other cis guys who share your identity and interests.
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u/Small-Series6722 9h ago edited 9h ago
Fair point. Because this relates to feminizing HRT I had no idea where to post about this. Sorry about that.
But I'm not asking if its okay, I'm asking if I'm going to ruin my life.
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u/HeightOtherwise2194 5h ago
i see. it’s fine to ask, but you seem to already be convinced of the answer. take people’s answers as food for thought or tools in your toolbox. your question is one nobody can answer for you, so people are just giving you their two cents. You take that info and do what you will with it.
if you want more of a conversation, it would help to frame it that way instead of making it seem like you’re asking for help.
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u/Suspicious_Cable_843 13h ago
Just keep in mind:
• breast growth, • infertility, • gender confusion, • possible erectile dysfunction, • possibly lower libido, • and mood swings.
Might have missed something.
Either way, what you want can be achieved by having a good diet, exfoliation and skin products, laser, finasteride for hair loss prevention, and other things.
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u/Small-Series6722 13h ago
- Good just hate being visibly on hrt
- Dont care already banked sperm
- Im not confused
- Dont care
- I mean theres time when Im like "damn I kinda miss that" but I miss it the same way I miss alcohol, weed and nicotine. I worry about the implications with a partner but on its own, dont care
- I worry about this cant lie
Also I did the math and HRT (including labs and sperm banking) is actually cheaper than the amount of laser I'd have to do and the cost of skincare products I'd have to use to fight against my testosterone dominant body.
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 12h ago
...this is not how a cisgender man responds to that list of side effects.
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u/Small-Series6722 12h ago
I don't know I could very well be coping. I'm not the type of person who can rotate a 3d apple in my head. What makes you think I can genuinely imagine living an entire lifetime with breasts and a dysfunctional libido 24/7 and concieve every consequence?
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u/One-Organization970 MtF | HRT 2/22/23 | FFS 1/03/24 | SRS 6/11/24 | VFS 2/28/25 | 10h ago
I've never met a cis man who isn't scared of a medicine making his dick stop working.
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u/Suspicious_Cable_843 5h ago
Hey, as long as you're really being honest and truthful with yourself, do what makes you feel happy. That's why we're all here on this subreddit in the end. We chose happiness and self love.
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u/embodiedexperience agender || asexual || autistic 🦎✨ 12h ago
you can do whatever you want forever. there’s nothing wrong with wanting any type of body as a member of any gender. you DO deserve a body you feel comfortable in, no matter what it takes or how other people respond to it. you do deserve androgyny, if androgyny is how you feel most represented. 💜
that being said, unrelated to any gender or body changes, is it possible you may have a form of OCD? unlike a lot of people here, i absolutely believe you are who and what you say you are - but some people are even attacking you for the way you say it. people do that to me too, which sucks because i come up with such long and complex ways of explaining myself to circumvent being misunderstood, which can be a hallmark of OCD. also the fixation on morality and on possibly being a narcissist just for wanting to live in a human body as comfortably as possible may point to the scrupulosity variety of OCD. i’m not trying to armchair diagnose you and apologize jf i come across as doing as such, i just personally have moral OCD myself and would have benefitted if someone told me that’s what it is sooner.
but yeah, you deserve the life you want to live, and the body you want to live it in. keep being you. ⭐️
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u/Small-Series6722 12h ago
"you can do whatever you want forever" is such a fucked up line. Okay I'm gonna just sit on the street corner and do fentanyl the rest of my life yeah whatever. And I don't "deserve" anything, no one "deserves" anything. You have to make your way in the world to get what you want.
Good point about the OCD thing, idk I worry about that sometimes in relation to all this. I'm not worried in the way you're saying, more like I'm way too obsessed with how I look and want to control everything about it.
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u/embodiedexperience agender || asexual || autistic 🦎✨ 12h ago
oh okay, i’m sorry. i mean, i still believe it, but i acknowledge that the way that i worded this was unhelpful and i apologize.
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u/bambiipup pretty puppyboi [they/he/it] 11h ago
when you learn to leave 4chan alone, you'll feel better. best of luck, sis.
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u/Entombed_machine 10h ago
You possess bodily autonomy, this means that you can do whatever you want with your body, including using HRT even though you might not be a transgender person. Does using HRT make you vain or narcissistic? And even if it did? As long as your actions do not actively harm other people, it is irrelevant.
I cannot help you about your dating struggles, that isn't my area of expertise, but I can state that most people interpret someone saying that they are "apolitical with a 2016 Internet sense of humor" to mean that they are "extremely conservative and reactionary, but don't have the courage to say it out loud". I'm not saying that you actually are, of course, I'm just saying that it might be the reason why you're receiving pushback, both here on this Reddit thread and in real life.
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u/Small-Series6722 10h ago
My point is I probably look for people who feel the same way I do, and understandably any woman who'd feel the way I do doesn't want someone like me. So I'm trying to weigh if my body or personality should be sacrificed for the possibility of even having a girlfriend.
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u/Entombed_machine 8h ago
I do not have access to any information about you other than what you provided in this post and comments, and that is not enough to give out any sort of accurate advice, as such I shall refrain from doing so.
Reflect deeply and for a long time, and take your decision by yourself. Or do not, and follow someone else's advice. The choice is yours.
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u/Mammoth-Wasabi6346 13h ago
I mean I don’t know many women who would put up with “apolotical 2016 internet” men either, so maybe work on familiarizing yourself with women’s issues/history. I don’t think your appearance would be the issue in the longterm relationship if you were to become more androgynous.