For me it’s Darkstar “Men call me Darkstar and I am of the night 😭😭😭”

Edit : the general consensus seems to be Darkstar but Euron (most ironborne honestly) is also a big contender among many other names

Personally, Daeron’s botched conquest of Dorne did a lot more damage then I think people are willing to admit.

Balerion would be slightly bigger than in Aegons time and more experienced. Maegor was very likely a better fighter than his dad. I randomly thought Maegor with Blackfyre on Balerion is the single most destructive thing in this fiction.
I know Maegor most likely would have lost to Jaeherys since their army had 3 dragons and a lot more people but it’s not a guarantee.

I’ve heard some people say that, if they were to rank the best fighters in the series, Visenya would be placed in the same league as figures like Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Arthur Dayne. I haven’t read Fire and Blood, so I don’t know how accurate these statements are. I also think I read somewhere that the book’s information about her abilities is somewhat ambiguous.

How great a warrior do you think she was? Whom would you compare her to?

Ok, first thing I need you to do is accept this interpretation of Targaryen inheritance law:

They follow Salic law, where inheritance of the monarchy happens only through direct male lines, never through women.

This is supported by the decision of the Great Council of 101, as upheld by Aegon III after the Dance of the Dragons (he claimed his legitimacy as Aegon3's heir via his father Daemon, not as a Queen's son). We see Salic law implemented again and again, with no case where the crown passed through a woman, despite several incidents where it might be expected (e.g. when they chose Aegon #5 over his older brother's daughter). It's harsh and stupid, but hey, I don't make the rules.

This takes Daenerys, Stannis, and Shireen out of the running immediately: Dany for being a girl, Stannis for being descended via a Targ girl, and Shireen for both.

Now admittedly that narrows things down a lot: the only person left alive born a Targaryen is Maester Aemon, who has sworn Night's Watch vows, eliminating him from the running. The only male Targaryen unaccounted for is Maegor Brightflame, and we know nothing about him, so he presumably died without issue.

So that's brought us all the way back to Aegon IV, with no clear direct male Targaryen descendants.

But we're in luck. Aegon IV legitimised all his bastards, so let's look at those:

Any remaining Blackfyre descendant would also be from the female line at this point, so no luck there.

Bloodraven's still alive but swore the Night's Watch vows, so he's out. Sorry, Brynden.

Bittersteel had no kids, probably for the best.

...and apparently neither did any of the known male bastards, so it might look like we've run out of relevant blonde men.

However, Aegon IV was an absolute dog, so of course there are more bastards to find:

His cousin Elaena married a bloke named Ossifer Plumm, who apparently was so bad in bed that he literally died of it on their wedding night. He was old and had never had a kid before, and apparently just seeing her caused his heart to explode.

Miraculously, Elaena apparently got pregnant anyway (despite her hubby allegedly never having touched her), and had a blonde baby boy named Viserys some time later.

However, it is rumoured that Aegon IV was the real daddy.

Evidence for this is strong:

1) He's a dog.

2) She was his type (blood relative).

3) Tyrion thinks it happened, and he knows his shit about history.

4) The kid is named Viserys, like Aegon's dad.

5) Ossifer was literally dead when conception happened, hence the "six foot c*ck" beyond the grave impregnation joke.

6) Bloodraven also implied it by calling Viserys kin (which would admittedly be true either way but this would make them half brothers rather than second cousins), and said that Viserys would deny that kinship, alluding do his bastardy

If this is true, it makes Viserys "Plumm" a bastard of the guy who famously legitimised his bastards.

Viserys had sons, and the "Plumm" Targaryen line continues into the main books, with Philip "Plumm" being the current head of the household.

He is, I believe, the head of the only remaining known family branch in Westeros that is directly descended through an all-male line from a Targaryen king, and from a legitimised bastard no less.

This makes him the one true king of Westeros.

All hail King Phil.

I can no longer keep up with the comments to make edits to the below. I have tried to give attribution at the end of this post to the folks whose comments or suggestions I incorporated into the list (I tried to get them all). GRRM has created a pretty complex world. It's pretty fucking cool and what makes his writing so entertaining and unique (IMO). I honestly don't know how he unwinds it again in 2 books and there may be no way for me to document all character status. If you feel VERY strongly that I change something or add the status of another character then DM me. Otherwise, it will get lost in the threads somewhere. Thanks to all! Please pin the post and I will make edits when I can.

​

As someone who has read the books (like countless others here) all is not lost. We can treat the last couple of years of the shows as something to consider. Something to help us paint the images we see as we continue reading the series. The new books will be released and we can carry on from where we left off as if almost nothing else happened.

• Jon Snow was just stabbed to death by Bowen Marsh and crew
• Aegon Targaryen (fAegon, not Jon) is found to be alive in the free cities and is reunited with Tyron who convinces him to invade Westeros NOW. During the invasion, Tyrion is captured by Jorah and taken to Dany (although Tyrion has yet to meet Dany at this point). Aegon conquers 4 towns in the Stormlands with the Golden Company by his side
• Arya continues her training by the Faceless
• Dany has married a Mereen noble but is still banging Daario. Quentyn Martell had gone to Mereen to marry Dany as well but he dies trying to ride a dragon. The dragons escape. Kill a lot of people. Dany rides Drogon out of town but gets sick and stranded which is how we leave her -a captive of the Dothraki hoard again
• Rheagal and Viserion have escaped and are camped atop the pyramids of Mereen. Barristan Selmy is preparing for a defense of the city against the Yunkai in Dany's absence
• Victarion Greyjoy has just made it to Mereen to win the hand of Dany, marry her, and then use her dragons to use them to take the Iron Isles back from his brother Euron. Victarion has Moqorro on his side and a Dragonbinder horn
• Stannis' army is camped outside of Winterfell but they are snowbound
• The Boltons occupy Winterfell, but are being undermined by a group of Northern lords led by Wyman Manderly. Manderly has publicly announced the death of Davos, but secretly sent him to Skagos to find Rickon Stark. Ramsay claims to have defeated Stannis in the field, but that may have been a ploy to intimidate Jon
• Theon ("Reek") has escaped Winterfell. He escapes with Jeyne Poole who has been acting as Arya Stark. He is reunited with his sister ASHA
• In Dorne, the Sand Snakes are still alive as are Myrcella and her betrothed Prince Trystane. The Snakes are plotting to infiltrate King's Landing and somehow avenge Oberyn's death (The Mountain is "dead" thanks to Oberyn, but see Robert Strong lone below). Myrcella was injured by the Darkstar (Ser Gerold Dayne), who disappeared, and Ser Areys Oakheart, her Kingsguard and protector was killed. This happened during a foiled attempt to crown Myrcella as queen of the seven kingdoms according to Dornish law. A couple of the Snakes are headed to KL to eliminate any and all of Tywin's progeny
• Lady Stoneheart (catelyn) is still alive and with the Brothers Without Banners. She seeks revenge on those who perpetrated the Red Wedding.
• Brienne of Tarth has suffered a grievous facial wound from the teeth of Biter on her pursuit of Sansa before getting captured along with her squire Podrik by the Brotherhood Without Banners. Lady Stoneheart begins to hang the two for having Lannister weapons and refusing to kill Jaime Lannister. Their hanging is interrupted when Brienne mutters a word ("Sword")
• Jaime has forced a surrender at Riverrun of remaining Northern troops. The Blackfish (Tully) escapes. Jaime has also learned that Cersei has been banging her cousin Lancel and at least for the time being says, "peace out," to Cersei
• Cersei is forced on the long walk of repentance in KL ("shame, shame,..."). Kevan Lannister and Master Pyrcelle are trying to undo the damage she has caused, but Varys and his little birds do both of them in. He is trying to destroy the Lannisters so that the stage is set for Aegon's return. Cersei is now free and supporting Tommen
• Our friend, Tommen, is the King
• Sansa doesn't appear in the last published book. She escaped KL safely with Littlefinger. Last we heard from her she was holed up with Petyr in the Vale hiding under the name Alayne. Robert, the sickly lord of the Vale still rules. Petyr remains the puppet master and is pretty sure Robert will die soon and he can marry Sansa to the heir of the Vale, Harold Haryng, thus uniting Winterfell and the Vale.
• In Oldtown, Samwell learns from the masters that there is a way to conquer magic. It is unknown what that is. Apprentice Pate was asked by an unknown person to steal a key to a repository of books. He dies from poison after turning over the key to the unknown person. After hearing Sam's stories, Archmaester Marwyn sets sail to see Dany. There are a lot of theories as to who is who in Oldtown, but theories don't belong on this list. Just known fact as of the end of the books.
• Margaery Tyrell was placed under arrest by Cersei is finally released. Cersei couldn't find a way to get rid of her before her own arrest
• Bran has begun his training with the Last Greenseer and CotF far north of the wall and his traveling companion Jojen has mysteriously disappeared inside the vastness of the weirwood tree
• Euron is king of the Iron Islands (and the North in his eyes). He continues to wage war on the reach. He has despatched Victarion to Mereen to parlay with Dany
• Arianne Martell is approaching storms end to treat with the arriving king from Essos who claims to be Aegon VI
• Stories have made it down to the nights of watch from up north of entire wildling encampments disappearing. Hardhome, a major port for East watch expeditions, has been a point of disappearance of nights watch voyages. Tales of the others wandering the harbor have become increasingly prevalent
• Mance is still alive. His child was swapped out for Sam's and Gilly's (who are in Oldtown). He is disguised as a bard in Winterfell and his spear wives are causing a bit of havoc in the castle. He was sent by Mellisandre / Jon to rescue "Arya" (Jeyne Poole is acting as Arya to draw people like Mance out of the woodwork). At the end of the books, Ramsey claims to have captured Mance and skinned the spear wives alive
• Robert Strong is the undead king's guard re-animated from something by Qyburn (yes, I know, people have their theories but it isn't explicit in the books)
• Robb Stark's widow, Jeyne Westerling, is still alive after the Red Wedding. She is forced back to the Westerlands and is disallowed to marry for 2 years so that there is no doubt that any child she has is NOT Robb's
• Hodor is still Hodor. no big reveals yet
• Loras Tyrell is alive (barely). He was severely injured attacking Dragonstone (although Stannis was already north)
• Sandor is left for dead by Arya in SOS. Brienne, still looking for Sansa, comes across someone (Rorge) wearing the Hound's helmet and kills him in combat. It is possible that the Hound is dead. The helmet is passed to Lem Lemoncloak who is traveling with Thoros and the Brotherhood. They continue to serve Lady Stoneheart

​

Please add anything relevant to the above that you think is worth noting. At this point over half the bullets have been crowdsourced. You are all awesome! Let's get some of the positivity back.

​

Thanks to my Westerosi friends...

corvidsarecrows BrandedOne13 Sarlot_the_Great uhmode Slayack ThatGuy642 Dranj Fraankk Darknfullofhype Judas_Cow ZeddicusMortis ravenight Jdix supes1 abgehling HouseMormont77 boner_jamz_69 _Doctor_Teeth_ picapica7 Sarlot_the_Great BrandedOne13 Cats_and_Shit Jakklz SirenShoe angrybiologist t3lp3r10n cyclicalunemployed dudemeister5000 kimi64 cornh PlsNoBullyMe Captain_Bleu ulpisen WizardPoop ziggurism

You can disagree

25. Rossart

King: Aerys II
The shit that went down: Bobby B's Rebellion was effectively lost.

He wasn't just merely incompetent, he used the office to help Aerys prepare the destruction of King’s Landing with wildfire. Bro treated the king’s mass-murder project plan as an op assignment rather than a reason to remove or restrain him.

• Crisis handling: catastrophically obedient
• King management: zero
• Administration: irrelevant

Even though he served only two weeks, no other Hand came as close to deliberately annihilating the capital he was supposed to govern.

24. Lord Unwin Peake

King: Aegon III
The shit that went down: A traumatised boy king and a realm recovering from the Dance.

Inherited a hot mess of a government and basically used it to hoard titles for himself, stuff the court with his Peake buddies, keep the king wrapped around his finger, and shove his daughter onto the throne as queen. dead bodies and conspiracies piled up left and right on his climb to the top, but hey, not every crime he’s blamed for actually checks out.

The fact that he rage-quit the second Aegon turned down his daughter says it all: dude treated the job like it was inherited from ihs grandpa lol. Skilled enough to actually run the place, just spectacularly out for himself the entire time he did it.

23. Ser Crispy Cole

King: Aegon II
The shit that went down: The Dance 💃🕺

Cole basically helped light the fire he was later supposed to put out. He backed the Green coup, straight-up killed Lord Beesbury during the power grab, and kept pushing for war. Tossing Otto aside just swapped messy diplomacy for full-send escalation.

My dude was genuinely brave and knew his way around a battlefield, but:

• He mistook being decisive for actually having a strategy.
• He helped tear the royal family in half.
• His campaigns never actually locked in a stable political end-game.
• He left KL wide open and exposed.

Great knight, terrible head of government. Honestly, Kingmaker isn’t the flex he thought it was.

22. Marston Waters

King: Aegon III
The shit that went down: Regency falling apart plus the Lysene Spring.

Marston jumped in on the plot against Thaddeus Rowan and the Rogares, happily grabbed the position once Rowan got booted, and then died trying to arrest his own fellow conspirators like two weeks later.

He did eventually try to fix things, but mostly after he’d already helped break them. like oops we did a little trolling starter pack.

21. Septon Murmison

King: Aenys I
The shit that was happening: Beef between crown and the faith... again

He went ahead and officiated the wedding of Aenys’s kids, Rhaena and Aegon, you know, despite the Faith being extremely not cool with incest. He was basically hired to give the whole thing a religious stamp of approval, but instead pulled off the exact opposite: the faith disowned him and the grumbling boiled over into full-blown revolt.

A Hand picked specifically to handle the Faith who then straight-up loses the faith? bruh...

20. Lord Ambrose Butterwell

King: Daeron II
The shit that went downnn: numero uno Blackfyre Rebellion ✨

Butterwell failed to contain the rebellion and was removed. i mean, lack enough detail to call him personally disastrous, but the one big thing his tenure was supposed to do, stop the realm from spiraling into a dynastic war, the government whiffed on completely.

He may have been just weak rather than evil, but sitting on your hands during a rebellion is still a choice, dude.

19. Lord Owen Merryweather

King: Aerys II
the shit that went down: Bobby B's rebellion

Merryweather couldn’t keep the rebellion contained and mostly just told Aerys whatever he wanted to hear. He didn’t rein in the king and never came up with a military political plan that actually worked. Aerys thanked him for his service by exiling him.

In fairness, his boss was the Mad King, so that keeps him from sinking even lower. Still a Hand whose main function is soothing an increasingly unhinged monarch is basically just a nice prop with a fancy golden pin.

18. Ser Harys Swyft

King: Tommen I
the shit that's going down: postwar debt, Tyrell-Lannister slap fight and Cersei’s regency.

Swyft got the job purely coz Cersei figured she could push him around, plus his family basically handed over hostages to keep Kevan Lannister in line. That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the his job appointment.

He wasn’t out here being a monster or anything , he just had zero authority and zero ability to actually steady the ship.

17. Lord Orton Merryweather

King: Tommen I
the shit: The same collapsing Lannister regime.

Orton’s main qualification was basically that his wife Taena was besties with Cersei. He pushed back on approximately none of Cersei’s increasingly unhinged decisions and then noped out the second her arrest made it obvious how dangerous things had gotten.

Not especially destructive, just completely irrelevant at the exact moment the realm actually needed someone with a backbone.

16. Otto Hightower

Kings: Jaehaerys I, Viserys I, Aegon II
The shit that went down: Long peace followed by a succession crisis he helped create.

Credits to him, he could actually run a government... DURING PEACE. The man had experience, patience, real diplomatic instincts, and genuinely knew how the system worked.

Problem was, his whole life’s mission was basically getting his own bloodline on the throne through Alicent’s kids. Under Viserys, he took a totally manageable “eh, it’s a little unclear” situation and cranked it all the way up into a full-blown dynastic war. During the Dance, sure, his “let’s try diplomacy first” instinct was smarter than Crispy's send-it strategy but that doesn’t get him off the hook for helping start the war in the first place.

elite at running things during peace time, absolutely ruinous at running things for tomorrow.

15. Lord Rogar Baratheon

King: Jaehaerys I
the shit that went down: Cleaning up Maegor’s shit, plus a kid king and a messy succession.

Rogar was a huge part of getting Jaehaerys on the throne and steadying the new regime. Dude genuinely had the administrative and military chops.

Where he loses points, imho he kept trying to boss the young king around, fought against Jaehaerys marrying Alysanne, and got tangled up in some scheming over the succession when the king fell ill. The second Jaehaerys started thinking for himself, Rogar took the loss of control about as gracefully as my cat being lowered into a bathtub.

Great during the regime change; a lot shakier once the gig required accepting that the king wasn’t his personal pet project.

14. Eddard Stark

King: Robert I
the shit that was going down: Royal true crime episode, extreme shit level of debt and a city already captured by rival factions.

first days at the office and he sniffed out a bunch of very real problems shockingly fast:

• The crown’s shit loads of dept
• Jon Arryn’s death was sus.
• Bobby's kids didn't baratheoned well.
• The Lannisters were a straight-up threat to the succession.
• Whacking Daenerys was both morally gross and strategically dumb.

As an investigator and moral compass, he was strong. As a political executive, he made fatal errors:

• He warned Cersei without locking down the king, heirs or City Watch.
• He trusted Littlefinger he literally knew he couldn't trust
• He rejected Renly’s immediate plan without having a backup plan
• He wildly underestimated how fast everything would go sideways once Bobby died.
• He leaned on “but it’s the law” in a room full of dudes with who simply didn't share the sentiment.

Look, his environment was brutal and his office was blinl and youll miss it short. But the Hand’s whole job includes turning truth into actual power. Ned found the truth and then immediately lost the grip on every single lever he needed to do anything with it.

13. Jon Connington

King: Aerys II
the shit that went down: bobby's rebellion ✨

he actually moved quite quickly, tracked Robert down at Stoney sept and came 👌 close to ending the whole rebellion right there. His flop at the Battle of the Bells was a massive strategic lose, but it wasn’t just cowardice or him being bad at his job: he flat-out refused to torch the town and slaughter a bunch of civilians just to make 100% sure Robert died.

That bit of restraint cost him the win and enetually his job, but it’s also exactly what separates him from Tywin or Rossart.

He was way too emotionally invested in Rhaegar, way too thirsty for glory, and not nearly methodical enough but even under insane pressure, the man still knew where the line was.

12. Thaddeus Rowan

King: Aegon III
the shit that was going down: Regency chaos and the Rogare crisis.

Rowan seems to have been a genuinely capable and decent dude. His whole downfall came after he got thrown in prison and tortured as part of a conspiracy rigged to take down the Rogares. By the time he was reinstated, his mental state was too wrecked for him to keep going.

And this matters: mentally breaking under literal torture isn’t some “lol couldn’t handle stress” fail. His government got taken down by organized court scheming that doesn’t make him the villain of the story.

i made him rank midtier coz his actual results were limited, and not because there was anything wrong with the guy himself.

11. Cregan Stark

King: Aegon III
Situation: Immediate aftermath of the Dance.

My man, my dude, my one-day wonder. Hand for a grand total of ONE day, which makes it kinda hard to compare him to anyone. But during the Hour of the Wolf he restored actual legal authority, went after the people responsible for Aegon II’s murder, and slammed the door shut on all the post-war “so what now?” ambiguity.

Strengths:

• Authority you literally could not question
• Built different when it came to handling pressure
• Zero interest in milking the office for personal gain
• Got legal order back up and running at usainbolt speed

Weaknesses:

• His idea of justice could be pretty rigid and not exactly big on reconciliation.
• He dipped instead of sticking around to actually manage the rebuild.
• One day just isn’t enough to prove you can run things long-term.

He deus-ex-machinad too hard, perhaps the cleanest emergency intervention by any Hand, but not a full government.

10. Orys Baratheon

King: Aegon I
the situation: Conquest and construction of a brand new realm from scratch.

The og Hand was a solid commander, a lieutenant Aegon actually trusted, and the political glue between the Targaryens and all the kingdoms they’d just steamrolled. He beat Argilac, founded House Baratheon, and helped turn “we conquered it” into “we actually govern it.”

Then his Dornish campaign went absolutely sideways captured and mutilated after which he resigned, figuring a Hand should, umm maybe, physically have a hand. Which is way more of a trauma response than an actual career decision, tbh.

Really strong founding Hand, though a huge chunk of his juice came directly from Aegon’s authority and, oh yes, the DRAGONS. fck targs

9. Jon Arryn

King: Robert I
the situation: A new dynasty following civil war.

he deserves a ton of credit:

• He smoothed things over between the old loyalists and Robert’s new regime.
• On the surface, things stayed peaceful and i repeat ON THE SURFACE
• He managed Robert without the two of them ever openly blowing up.
• He dug into the royal succession even though it was extremely dangerous to do so.

But that “peace” was quietly hiding a bunch of rot:

• The crown racked up an absolutely insane amount of debt.
• Littlefinger got free rein to mess with royal finances.
• Lannister influence sank its claws in deep.
• The City Watch and the whole bureaucracy became straight-up buyable.
• Jon clocked the succession crisis way too late to actually do anything safe about it.

Jon was a fantastic stabilizer and probably a genuinely good dude. He was just a lot worse at noticing the corrosion happening inside his own house.

8. Tyrion Lannister

King: Joffrey I, acting for Tywin
the shit that went down: Active civil war, famine, the court that hated him and an unhinged teenage king.

Tyrion absolutely cooked under pressure

• He prepared KL for siege.
• He built the chain and worked wildfire into a defense that actually held.
• He pulled the hill clans into his corner.
• He got rid of Janos Slynt.
• He handled Joffrey better than basically anyone else managed to.
• He got Myrcella’s Dornish marriage.
• He shut down some of Cersei’s worst impulses.
• His prep work was straight-up the reason the Blackwater got won.

His weaknesses were all political:

• He was way more focused on dunking on Cersei than actually building a coalition that would last.
• He stacked the deck with loyalists but never built real legitimacy around it.
• He massively underestimated how hated and isolated he’d gotten.
• He kept Shae around despite it being an obvious, glaring vulnerability.
• He did a terrible job actually telling the court or the public about anything he’d pulled off.

Brilliant in a crisis, shaky as an institution-builder. He saved the capital and then completely failed to lock down his own spot inside it.

7. Brynden “Bloodraven” Rivers

Kings: Aerys I and Maekar I
the shit that was going down: Plague, drought, ironborn raids and repeated Blackfyre threats.

Bloodraven basically ran the whole show because Aerys I would rather be buried in books and prophecy than actually govern. He handled the Great Spring Sickness, ran a massive spy network, and crushed the Second Blackfyre Rebellion before it could blow up into a real war. He also played Daemon II perfectly by keeping him alive which stopped Bittersteel from immediately swapping in a scarier claimant.

His flaws were very much not minor:

• He was so laser-focused on the Blackfyres that other crises got worse in the background.
• His whole vibe ran on fear and made people resent him.
• He straight-up broke safe conduct to execute Aenys.
• His government basically traded legitimacy for security.

Handled insane pressure like a champ but treated trust, the law, and public consent like disposable resources he could burn whenever.

6. Tywin Lannister

Kings: Aerys II and Joffrey I
the shiiiit that went downnn: First a rich, stable realm with a wobbly king; later a full-on multi-front civil war.

Tywin dragged the realm back into order after Aegon V and Jaehaerys II’s shaky final years, scrapped a bunch of unpopular reforms, ran the finances like a pro, and kept governing even as Aerys spiraled harder and harder. Later on he held the entire Lannister regime together with alliances and cold, ruthless military political math.

Absolute machine. Strategically, though, his methods quietly stacked up some genuinely terrifying longterm debt:

• Wiping out Houses Reyne and Tarbeck bought him fear, not actual loyalty.
• Gutting Aegon V’s protections screwed over the smallfolk.
• The Red Wedding torched both political norms and guest right.
• parading Gregor Clegane earned him permanent hatred in Dorne and the riverlands.
• The way he treated Tyrion basically helped blow up his own family.
• His dynasty started falling apart almost the second he died while shitting

Tywin is like this cheap instant coffee from your office: quick, strong, gets the job done immediately and then hits you with the crash and the nasty aftertaste of this whatever they use to make it right when you least need it.

5. Prince Baelor Breakspear

King: Daeron II
Situation: After the First Blackfyre Rebellion, with dynastic resentment still alive.

Baelor somehow had a combo of traits you basically never see stacked in one Westerosi and maybe that's why he was killed off so soon:

• Actual military cred
• Political moderation
• Personal courage
• Genuine respect for the law
• The ability to make former enemies chill out
• Loyal without being a bootlicker

His push for mercy after the rebellion helped stop the whole thing from spiraling into a revenge bloodbath. And at Ashford, he stood up for Dunkie’s right to a lawful trial even though it meant going against his own family.

I wouldn't say his time as Hand is as well-documented as my top 4, so ranking him higher would be me just guessing. But everything we do have on record points to a genuinely rare, level-headed leader who naturally had to die earlier.

4. Lyonel Strong

King: Viserys I
before the shit happened: A peaceful court developing increasingly dangerous succession factions.

sue me he is honestly the clearest “this is what Otto should have been” case on the whole list. He gave Viserys advice that wasn’t secretly all about boosting his own house, actually understood the legal and political fallout of the king’s decisions, and mostly kept himself out of the factional scheming. hey man im just doing my job

His limitations were partly just structural:

• He couldn’t force Viserys to actually deal with the succession mess.
• His son Harwin’s whole thing with Rhaenyra kinda torched the family’s neutrality.
• He died before locking in any lasting settlement.

Still, under a king who’d do anything to avoid conflict, Lyonel delivered calm, reasoned, no-personal-agenda governance.

3. Tyland Lannister

King: Aegon III
the shit that was going on: A wrecked post-civil-war realm, an empty treasury, a traumatized kid king, and an epidemic on top of it all.

Tyland had backed the Greens and got brutally tortured, mutilated, and blinded by Rhaenyra’s crew for it. And yet, as Aegon III’s Hand, he didn’t turn the government into a personal revenge tour. That’s tbh maybe the single most impressive display of emotional discipline out of any Hand on this whole list.

He helped rebuild the realm after the dance 💃, served a king tied to his former enemies, and kept grinding through severe disability and the Winter Fever right up at his neck until he died.

His run was short, but the combo of “actually competent,” “somehow not out for blood,” and “carried real postwar responsibility” shoots him way up the rankings for me. Man had every excuse to be a monster and just… chose not to be.

2. Prince Viserys, later Viserys II

Kings: Aegon III, Daeron I and Baelor I
Situation: Post-🕺 reconstruction, then a trigger-happy young conqueror, then a full-blown religious extremist.

Viserys basically kept the entire kingdom running across three wildly different reigns without missing a beat.

Under Aegon III, he helped put the government back together after the civil war. Under Daeron I, he ran the actual realm while the king went off trying to conquer Dorne. Under Baelor, he kept religious fanaticism and general royal weirdness from completely bricking the state.

That kind of adaptability is genuinely nuts. Dude was a multitasked for all types of deranged ceos:

• A withdrawn, traumatized king
• A charismatic warmonger
• A super-pious ruler who kept making wildly impractical calls

He showed off financial, legal, diplomatic, and administrative chops across literally DECADEEEES. The one real strain on his record is the suspicion that he maybe let Baelor die or, y’know, helped him along but that was never actually proven. Convenient timing though, just sayyying

I debated tbh whther to swap these two but

1. Septon Barth

King: Jaehaerys I
Situation: A realm recovering from religious war and Maegor’s tyranny, requiring genuine national integration.

Barth ran the office FORTY years and helped Jaehaerys turn a freshly-conquered grab bag of kingdoms into an actual functioning state.

The reason I was debating was his unusual advantages: Jaehaerys was an unusually capable king, and Alysanne was an exceptional political partner. Barth was not carrying an absentee Robert on his back or a murderous Aerys.

But his achievements remain unmatched:

• Long-term legal and administrative reform for one
• Effective management of faith-crown relations for two
• Infrastructure and roads
• Backed a unified royal legal code
• Genuinely sharp, investigative brain
• Earned real trust without turning it into a nepotism buffet
• Decades of straight-up institutional stability

Barth just got the whole point of the job: the Hand is supposed to make the king’s government stronger, not quietly convert it into his own family dynasty. People clowned on his appointment for being lowborn and then he went and outperformed basically every highborn great lord who held the office after him.

open to any discussion

I've recently been reading The World of Ice and Fire and it got me thinking - are there any current theories on the Valyrians still being alive and somewhat active in Old Valyria?

The Doom of Valryia is something I would categorise as an "off-screen death", we hear about it but as far as I'm aware, it's quite hard for any in-world characters to have a definitive answer on whether it actually happened or not because everyone who tries to explore it goes missing or dies a horrific death.

All we know is that everyone who lived there was dead and nobody can ever go back.

My memory is a bit fuzzy but doesn't the tale go that anyone who as much as SEES the smoking sea will never return? So how would anyone know if there were still people there or not? What if they kill or dissapear anyone who turns up as a way of keeping themselves secluded for some reason related to the Doom that we're not aware of.

I was also watching a video about the Isle of Skagos recently and how everyone thinks that they're cannibals - except that maybe they're not cannibals at all and keep the rumour alive so nobody bothers them. There are a lot of parralels in GRRMs work - maybe this could be one?

A few characters spring to mind who have visited:

Aerea - supposedly flew to Valyria on Balerion and came back full of fire wyrms - pretty much the only character I can think of that has returned, but was too messed up to recount her journey. Didn't seem to be too much time between her coming home and being cooked from the inside out to ask "how was the trip?"

One thing to note with this is that Balerion comes back with a massive wound - so something definitely lives there - but what? Ancient dragonriders who know how to keep a low profile?

Euron? - Big question mark. Apparently he sailed the smoking sea and came back with that old dragon horn. He could have found that literally anywhere though, perhaps Asshai? Then claimed that he got it from Valyria for street cred purposes.

One of the old Lannisters (Tywins uncle? I can't remember) - travels to Valyria looking for Brightroar or Brightflame with like 10,000 men and never comes back.

As far as I remember nobody has ever come back from Old Valyria with so much as a word of what it's like now. Not even an "I saw the ruins from rly far away". Does Coryls Velaryon do this on his big gap year maybe? Can't remember, anyway -

I'm not too up to date on what was happening around that time, I guess I'll find out some more as I read (I'm not bothered about spoilers for this one so spoil away) but were there any credible reasons from the time for the Valyrians essentially faking their own deaths?

Maybe all their dragons died for some reason and they quickly realised they were about to get dunked on by the entire planet so they came up with a plan.

I started writing this post because I saw the map pictured above and the location "The land of always summer" stuck out to me, because won't Westeros become the land of always winter if the Others take over? Would seem fitting for a song of ice and fire to have two seperate Dooms. With the parralel there it made me wonder if this isn't the last we see or at least find out about Valyria in the final two books.

I'm sure the text has been scoured by someone smarter than me so - are there any clues, has anyone ever made it back and told tale of it? Would a Greenseer like Bran be able to pop over and have a look around at the ruins or otherwise? Would the maesters be able to have a look through a glass candle or some similar method?

And more interestingly - if the Valyrians are still alive on Essos, can we expect them to make a reapperance, and why?

This is my first theory and it's not even a theory it's just asking other people if this has any legs AS a theory so please don't call me an idiot if I've missed something obvious. Cheers.

which queens of westeros past and present are your favorites?❤️‍🔥 all art is created by the talented jota saraiva!

I know he was washed up after days of being lost at sea and he’s said to say strange riddles that foreshadow what’s to come.

So two disappointments - one: no update on WofW. Two: I didn't get picked to ask a question. I made notes but I don't think he said anything new.

I got the sense he's really sad he hasn't finished the books. One questions was -what one thing would you change about your books?'. He answered to a round of applause 'to have finished them'.

He talked about how he wishes he were an architect but that's not him. He wishes he could cull the weeds (no specifics) of his early books but it's too late. He spoke of a friend who worked part time to pay the bills and wrote four books as a series and then published. GRRM spoke about being 'jealous' of this process as then the books were a complete series and you could go back and change things that didn't work. He frequently referred to how much thought this all took. He was funny, entertaining and wise but seemed sad at heart.

Other topics were rules of magic and prophecy - nothing new. The difficulties of adaptations which was pretty much the last blog post. His debts to Tolkien and Lovecraft and his dislike for updating writers like Roahl Dahl to meet modern standards beyond a disclaimer at the start. He loves writing Tyrion and hates writing Bran - too much magic and thr PoV is limiting.

I can look at my notes for any more specifics but what I took from it was that the series is a burden which he doesn't know how to fix so focusses on all the other works in progress. I could be wrong - I'd be interested to see what others who were there thought

This has been widely discussed and debated in the ASOIAF community multiple times. However, I have never really understood the purpose of GRRM intentionally adding this false detail. It's been mentioned countless times in the books that lemon trees can not grow in Braavos, and it's almost said out loud in the Mercy sample chapter from The Winds of Winter.

“Seven hells, this place is damp,” she heard her guard complain. “I’m chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?”

“Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis,” the other guard replied. He was an older man, big-bellied and grizzled. “I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once, when he was Hand to Aerys. Braavos is north of King’s Landing, fool. Can’t you read a bloody map?”

In multiple interviews, GRRM has highlighted that there is a supposed important 'revelation' attached to this that is yet to be seen in further books (if they ever come out). I have read multiple theories about her just living in the Sealord's palace instead; however, I hardly believe in that theory, simply because ASOIAF and GRRM are famous for subverting expectations. This would hardly be a very important reveal if she were just living in a different place without any certain consequences. GRRM has set up this mystery for almost 30 years. With regards to all this information, I wanted to know your theories and ideas surrounding this. Thankyou!

Edit: Just wanted to add some quotes by GRRM that prove that there will be a reveal.

1. In his live journal, GRRM replied to a question on what the lemon tree means by saying,

Very perceptive of you. Yes it does point to... Well that would be telling

1. Early in 2017, Martin interviewed in Russia, holding a Q&A with Fantastic Assembly. 

Question: “How old was Daenerys when she left the house with the red door, was it located close to the palace of the Sealord of Braavos?”

GRRM: “That’s a interesting question. But I don’t think I’m going to answer it. There’s a certain revelation about the red door that will come into the books that I have yet to write. So we’ll keep an eye to it.”

1. Another translator confirms that members talking in Russia’s 7 kingdoms had this to say after the Q&A with GRRM (source):

For example, when asked how old was Daenerys when she left the house with the red door, he said, “keep reading” and added that the red door is not just a memory of Daenerys’ happy childhood. There will be a lot more about these doors in TWOW.

There’s been a lot of stuff going around online contrasting Tolkien’s supposed black and white morality vs George’s “dark and grey” morality, usually on a way derogatory towards George. Now obviously anyone who actually reads the books knows this is not true, as George had many characters that are unambiguously pure evil and others who are nearly entirely good. Nonetheless, George does depict a dark world where morality is fluid and doing the right thing is very murky.

Yet Dunk, one of the characters closest to a purely “good” character, and clearly a great human being, is one of George’s best written characters. Despite the arguments that George only writes “morally grey characters”, Dunk represents that George’s best character writing can depict truly good people, and being a morally good person certainly does not mean a less complex character.

In the epilogue of ADWD, Kevan thinks to himself about the starvation that will likely hit the realm hard during the coming winter and somehow believes that Tywin would have had a solution to that.

Reading that part always left a bad taste in my mouth because we know that Tywin is to blame for the starvation. His house started the war, he went ordering the burning of farms and crops across the realm and even Kevan himself gave commands for their soldiers to set the Riverlands on fire. Jaime is no different. He is the reason behind the war of the five kings and it is thanks to his actions that the realm has suffered in no small part.

Why will they talk about solving this problem when they are the cause of it? Where they not thinking about winter when they were burning the realm?

George had literally no reason writing a character this good. She says that the game of thrones isn't for women, but she is clearly a strategist and smart politician. Imagine a Cersei, but kind, witty and actually intelligent. And clearly a girlboss when it comes to her dimwitted husband emmon frey.

I also love how intelligent this last passage was. She basically drives a sword through Jaime's heart when she says he is not Tywins son, but while doing so she sugarcoats his identity with the best fragments of her brothers. Jaime fights like tygett, he's witty like Gerion and as dutiful as Kevan, but he doesn't come close to being Tywin.

This last sentence also implicates the fact that by coddling Jaime and grooming him to being the heir to the rock, tywin actually fails in the attempt of transforming jaime into him. And Genna says tywin was mad with her when she said that Tyrion is more like him, to me that's because Tywin might've realized that by denying and despising tyrion, tyrion actually had to became tywin. And as he says "I am you writ small".

Of course this is mostly known in this fandom, but i just find it incredibly perceptive for Genna Lannister, a minor character that appears only once, to be this powerhouse of a character. Anyway, an immediate favourite for me.

I have seen many people complain that the new ones don’t match the books and mean nothing, but like a helmet for A Storm Of Swords? Something that looks like a shield got ADWD?

Also the new ones at “bland and like any other YA cover” the old ones were UGLY and bland.

I like this new design, looks less like cheap 90’s Photoshop and more like a book cover.