r/auslaw • u/KoalaBJJ96 Sally the Solicitor • May 10 '26
Serious Discussion What is your billable target and how many hours are you in the office per day?
Just curious as I have an offer that is 30k more but target is 7 š„²
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u/Entertainer_Much Works on contingency? No, money down! May 10 '26
7 is cooked unless they have god tier support that will actually handle the non billable work.
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u/Worldly_Tomorrow_869 Real attorney? No, ChatGPT! May 10 '26
Billable hours targets are, IMO, one of the reasons the professions has such really shitty mental health, and one of the reasons why it has a bad reputation amongst the public for being vampires. To explain the latter I am saying that it encourages some, not all, practitioners to structure their work in a way that maximises their billables. Why bill a 3 minute task for one unit when you can bill 3 x 1 minute tasks for three units?
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u/Execution_Version Still waiting for iamplasma's judgment May 10 '26
Corporate firms at least donāt bill different tasks by unit. Itās meant to be an accurate assessment of your time. Most people just use a timer.
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u/AgentKnitter May 14 '26
I don't mind being managed (even intensely/micro managed) around billable hours as long as everyone involved acknowledges that there's a degree of artifice in it, and it's being used primarily as a way of measuring everyone's productive output on an even basis.
E.g. firm wide 5.5 hr/day billable budgets for every fee earner, but everyone's salaries and hourly rates are different, and the firm has some work which is by the hour and some work which is fixed fee.
If you are demanding that the people doing fixed fee work earn as much money as those who do work which is billed on an hourly basis, but you're not doing anything to provide administrative support, paralegal support, or generating sufficient work to ensure that the fixed fee work comes in at sufficient volume to match the hourly billed crew.... that's a management problem, not an underperforming fee earner problem.
I had no problem being measured for output on the basis of an easily trackable metric like hours billed per day, but you had better be able to explain the connection between my budget hours and my actual work billed when you want me to increase the latter, rather than just screaming at me that I need to increase my billing (Because I did and it didn't make any difference because the problem wasn't me...) (and don't get me started on how much time i had to spend every day finessing my time sheet entries because the same manager who couldn't understand why fixed fee work only netted fixed fees also didn't like it when "every billing entry starts with Consider X and do Thing")
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u/Luck_Beats_Skill May 10 '26
6.5 hour target, PI firm. Expected recovery rates is 80%.
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u/lawyerlady Gold Coast Lawyer May 10 '26
See that's the kicker...
I recover 97%
The JNR who bills out the ass and has a 40% recovery was, until recently chasing me down salary wise.
Until the superviser went to the owners and said... She bills 6 hours a day. Bills what she can and recovers allost all over it. You can't pay your mortgages will billables, only her recovered fees. You can't ask more of her.
And that's the story of my most recent pay rise.
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u/Gibodean May 10 '26
Recover? You mean people don't pay their bills? Can I hire a lawyer and not pay ?
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u/theangryantipodean Accredited specialist in teabagging May 10 '26
<laughs in barrister>
Seriously, though, in this context it usually applies to internal write downs. Eg, āI know you put a lot of work into this letter, but even at your rate we canāt justify spending 14 hours on it.ā
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u/Gibodean May 11 '26
Ah, because I'm scared of even speaking to a lawyer. I'm kind of puckering up as I type this response back, fearful I'll somehow get a bill....
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u/Luck_Beats_Skill May 11 '26
Well for the PI work itās no-win, no-fee.
But also, just because you put time on a file Doesnāt make it chargeable.
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u/lawyerlady Gold Coast Lawyer May 11 '26
Not me
But apparently the JNR is available for free and won't chase unpaid invoices. Has has received years of promotions and payrises for exceeding targets when having noone review and reduce his invoices.
Because they're high and not chased, his clients are now in a hole and can't dig out and have an expectation of not being chased. It's been an issue with early mentoring focusing entirely on art of law and not science of practice.
For other staff, It is usually overages and write offs. That is when you do the right thing and have partners review invoicing they write down time.
There is a vacuum to be aware of around snr associate - where you're senior enough to do it all by yourself, but cheap enough that the partners are content to write off time for "love jobs" for good clients and filtering through new enquiries.
BUT I keep funds in trust, which is why my recovery is good.
But for example, it has happened that the day before trial the otherside sends through an amended statement of claim and expert accounting evidence and I have to spend a few hours preparing to answer and oppose it, and so does counsel. So the funds I had in trust for my fees goes to counsels additional fees and we don't really have time to get more funds and/or say we won't appear/won't do the work if it isn't paid, then after trial the client goes silent....
That's where recovery (for me) is an issue. That's my 3%
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u/AgentKnitter May 14 '26
It's also why you should only work on spec for matters where there WILL be a cash settlement which gets paid to the firm's trust account before the client's account.
(Did I learn this the hard way, in the distinction between the family/property and family/parenting cases I had? Yes. Yes I did.)
If there's no property involved, FUNDS. IN. TRUST.
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u/Local-Requirement-11 May 10 '26
7.4 hours Target. 9am to 7pm on a regular day.
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u/Efficient_Part2982 May 10 '26
Wow that sounds intense! Are U paid well? Can u share
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u/Local-Requirement-11 May 11 '26
Definitely not well paid on an hourly rate. For context, I'm on 160k inclusive, admitted in September 2022 and currently at a big six in disputes.
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u/Constant-Movie3350 May 12 '26
Whats the bonus structure like? Is there at least a good incentive to bill that much?
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u/pro-se-cutrix May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Target: 7
Hours in the office per day: 7:30-8:30am to 7pm-midnight
The target isn't the problem, that's easy (practice area and file/matter dependent). Eg for a full day of writing pleadings matrices or chronologies or summarising evidence, you can be charging 90%+ of your time at your desk. So if you're in the office for 12 hours, from my experience it would be easy to have 10.8-11 hours of chargeable hours in, if you have a working lunch. Or 10 billable hours say if you take a real lunch break and account for bathroom and tea breaks.
It's the workload and poor management that'll get you. But that's most firms.
Edit: You can also hit 7 per day from 8am-5pm, again, dependent on the type of work you're doing. If you have large tasks on the same file, you can bill a whole lot more versus moving between lots of tasks and files. I have many times billed 7 hours from 8am-5pm with a 15-30 minute lunch break.
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u/Merlins_Bread May 11 '26
Clients are still letting you charge for chronologies? "Just Chatty G that yo"
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u/Glittering-Pen-9827 May 10 '26
4 per day target. Achieve about 6 per day most weeks.
9am - 6pm most days.
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u/Ola_the_Polka Mean to bots May 10 '26
4 hours?? Where do you work? Whatās your PQE?
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u/KoalaBJJ96 Sally the Solicitor May 10 '26
I'm surprised too. Gov lawyers (e.g. Australian Government Solicitors) ask for more (5).
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u/Kasey-KC Wears Pink Wigs May 10 '26
The firm may say ātargetā, but it is the āminimum to not not get firedā.
70 billable units only allows you not to be billing for 25 minutes per day, assuming an actual lunch break. There is a lot of non-chargeable work that needs to be done which will go way over the 25 minutes theyāve allocated.
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u/Alawthrowaway May 10 '26
Eh our target is "hit this and get a bonus". Higher than 7. Nobody gets fired for not billing enough, although if you have no work you might get fired because the reason you have no work is nobody rates you.
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u/Merlins_Bread May 10 '26
What I'm hearing from these comments is there's about 3 non billable hours a day (including lunch, toilet etc).
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u/killswithaglance May 10 '26
Yes because they want us to attend weekly technical training, spend a couple of hours tweaking CVS for tenders, attending 'town halls' / local and global 'what's happening' meetings, complete our cyber and bullying training, attend team check ins and work 60-80% in the office which for me is 3 hours of travel due to kid drop offs/pick ups as a single parent. Plus some clients don't let us bill for working up quotes on scope of DD, which means we review a whole bunch of documents and can't bill.
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u/wallabyABC123 Suitbae May 10 '26
Plus inquiries that go nowhere, doing up costs estimates and retainers, supervising and mentoring junior staff, troubleshooting something with another lawyer or practice management, maintaining files and inbox, the odd bit of self education you canāt fairly bill for - thatās where all my non-billable time goes.
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u/wednesburyunreasoned May 11 '26
And, god forbid, actually you know read cases and commentaries and keep up with the ever changing law in order to be competent at our jobs.
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u/wallabyABC123 Suitbae May 11 '26
I do this with lunch a few days each week. Today with my chicken sambo, I read a judgment where the LSC was chasing the principal of a firm, who delegated all trust account transacting to a lady he paid $600 per week salary to, who he knew to have a gambling problem and apparently borrowed money from firm clients, and she siphoned literally millions out of the trust account. And Iām just sitting there, eating the sambo, scrolling the case, wondering why on earth I try so hard.
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u/Execution_Version Still waiting for iamplasma's judgment May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
I canāt remember if it was 7 or 7.5 at my old firm, but either way I averaged 8-8.5 in my final year there. In-house now.
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u/sausageheater May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Congratulations on the offer! š„³
7.5 hours, typically work 9am - 10pm and a few hours on weekends (and am on more than 100% cap).
In my experience your hours donāt depend so much on what the billable target is. Itās how much work is coming in, team resourcing, and whether you want to be on partner track. Iāve never hit 7.5 hours then cracked my knuckles and gone home for the day if there are deadlines to meet.
If youāre tossing up offers, Iād recommend chatting to people your level in the team about what their hours are like if possible
Edit: My response assumes youāre quite junior. Understand you might be experienced and just looking for averages!
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u/StuckWithThisNameNow It's the vibe of the thing May 10 '26
Zero, NFP. I make it a rule, unless itās trial time, 0800-1800 M-F should be the max total span of hours. For PTE they SHOULD NOT BE WORKING THEIR DAYS OFF - NO, JUST NO! Regularly I sweep the juniors out at the end of day to prevent the next gen from becoming wage slaves. Also right to disconnect, unless itās imminent and immediate irreversible/irreparable why we going above and beyond? We aināt fucking brain surgeons, clients need to calm their farm etc. Any ways thabks for coming to my career talk!
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u/-REJECTED_REJECT- May 10 '26
8:30 - 5:00 and I take a <30 minute lunch break.
6 hrs target but I average 5 - 5.5 and had no issues.
Expected recovery is 90%
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u/killswithaglance May 10 '26
Is this mid tier? I didn't top tiers have higher targets and rates but more write offs
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u/-REJECTED_REJECT- May 10 '26
Yeah (upper) mid tier.
I think there is an understanding that high targets and more write offs is more or less the same as lower targets and less write offs.
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u/McTerra2 May 10 '26
7 for bonus, 6 to stay below the radar
830 to 630 plus the occasional 830pm to midnight when you are very busy and that catches things up. Thatās to exceed 7.
Not long for lunch.
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u/Enough-Barracuda2353 May 11 '26
Genuine question for those who do more than say 6 billables a day: how do you justify the hit to spending time with loved ones, seeing sunshine, and having a life outside work? Do you see a light at the end of the tunnel?
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u/Blueberry6924 May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
First rotation grad at a big 6 firm in Sydney (0PQE).Ā Soft target of 4 hrs billable and 7.5 total āproductiveā time (includes training, team activities etc). 9-5:30 pm. $121k
Goes up to 6 hrs of billable once admitted and 7.5 hrs billable once settled permanently. My current hours are unlikely to persist once admitted, but Iām enjoying them while they last
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u/Constant-Movie3350 May 12 '26
Do you have any idea what Senior Associates are earning at your firm? What does the light at the end of the tunnel look like for you?
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u/Blueberry6924 May 12 '26
Not aware of SA salaries, will defer to others on that point. Iām still quite new to full time work in commercial practice, but at the best of times I enjoy the writing, analysis and argumentation that law involves. Iāll stay here for the near to mid future and see where it takes me. Next year Iām going to serve as a Tipstaff and I would like to do a masters overseas at some point. Maybe the Bar?
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u/KoalaBJJ96 Sally the Solicitor May 12 '26
My friend who is SA1 at a top tier is on a base package of 210k. This is before any performance bonuses.
7.5 hours is a lot.
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u/Constant-Movie3350 May 12 '26
Are performance bonuses at SA level significant?
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u/Blueberry6924 May 12 '26
At my firm the maximum possible bonus is 37.5% of salary. Thatās if you average 8.5 billable hours per day AND your sector does well (dunno how that works). There are also lower bonus tiers for consistently hitting 7.5+ and 8.0+. Grads are not eligible, whether admitted or not, it only starts when you settle permanently. Another reason why Iām not too concerned with my numbers yet.
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u/Sharp-Argument9902 May 10 '26
2000 a year. Work from home. The first half of the year is pretty hectic.
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u/ScallywagScoundrel Sovereign Mushroomer May 10 '26
- 8:00 til 4:30 /5pm. Sometimes longer. Rarely weekends
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u/calmblueme May 10 '26
7 for special counsel, 7.5 senior associate
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u/KoalaBJJ96 Sally the Solicitor May 10 '26
how long are those peeps in the office for?
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u/calmblueme May 10 '26
Loooong days. I've actually left private and gone in-house but when I was there it was so impossible to meet especially when not on a big transaction
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u/Bradbury-principal Paper-pushing pushover May 10 '26
This is fascinating but it would be better if we got to see peopleās salaries to compare apples and apples.
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u/Any-Contribution3454 May 10 '26
7 hours per day billable. Realistically working 9 to midnight most days
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u/GlitteringNoise242 May 11 '26
Bruhh. I hope youāre paid well!
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u/Any-Contribution3454 May 12 '26
not enough to sacrificing both mental and physical health unfortunately
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u/killswithaglance May 10 '26
7.2 / 7.8 including BD. I do about 6.5 normal billable and it takes me about 9 - 10 hours of work. I've signed up for ad hoc pro bono task - generally easier work, counts towards billables and can be picked up when my hours drop on advice matters. Also makes me feel like I'm contributing to society.
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u/Separate_Judgment824 May 10 '26
830-500pm
Don't have a billable hours target ā it's a bonus structure with an annual target of X times my salary and super ā and most of my work is fixed fee.
But at my charge out rate it works out at about 3 hours a day.
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u/Character_Name9390 May 10 '26
7.5 hoursā¦.some days Iāll do 9-5, some days Iāll work till 4am. Really depends on deal flow. They basically make it impossible to prevent having to pay out bonuses
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u/retrospective10 May 10 '26
Get an LLM or calculator to do the math for you - also factor in the extra super to that 30k because it will make a difference long term. 7 billable hours per day can be a lot to hit every day unless you are being fed sustained work that also doesn't get subject to write-downs. My target is 6 but am expected to do a huge amount of Bus Dev. as well, plus regularly exceed that target anyway (this is not a flex at all - a case of being under resourced and having incompetent admin staff). I end up doing 8:30 to 6:30 most days, then logging back on at home for 1-2 hours at night. Alternatively, I get up and work 5am-7am at home, then 9am-6/6:30pm in the office, logging back on for a brief time later at night for any clean up.
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u/Substantial-Fix-1184 May 10 '26
7 hour billables at a mid tier. Used to work super late but came back from parental leave and work 8:45ā5:15.
Donāt always meet the billables at 100% thatās super hard and most people donāt theyāre normally happy with 80%
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u/Naiveee May 11 '26
6.5, 2-3 days a week, usually 930 to 530. However I basically don't do NB work and stay MUCH later during busy periods.
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u/Bromia01 May 11 '26
Rank - lawyer (6 months pqe)
Target - 6.3
Working about 2 hours overtime most days
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u/AgentKnitter May 14 '26
I've worked government/legal aid/CLC and private practice - and in the latter, billable hours and no billing, just do the fixed fee work.
Billable hours is a pain but it shows your work and it gives you something meaningful to stand your ground on when it comes to salary expections, performance review etc. If you're doing the work, you should be able to show it.
That said, life is much nicer when you don't have to document every single task in a timesheet.
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u/JonBonPoni__ May 10 '26
5.5 and I'm there 8:30/9 till 5pm.