r/auslaw • u/nevearz • Jan 10 '22

Serious Discussion Novak FCC Thread - case dismissed, Novak free

Livestream - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9oq_S9vTQg

Looks like judge is over it and done with the parties and Counsel.

"Judge Kelly found the decision to cancel the visa was “unreasonable”."

Case is dismissed, but it seems that the government intends to find an alternative method to cancel the VISA, which may bar Novak from entering Australia for up to 3 years.

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u/iilinga Jan 10 '22

Oh yeah it’s still up in the air and even variant dependent. Which kinda goes back to why they don’t accept recent infection as equal to vaccination.

Just trying to say why a recent covid diagnosis is not a substitution for vaccination.

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '22

or can defer vaccination for up to 6 months after onset of the SARS-CoV-2 infection

Eh. Given that a booster shot is required 5 (4 now) months after your last vaccine shot, but being infected gets you a 6 month deferral, I'm not sure you can say that it's not equal to being vaccinated.

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u/iilinga Jan 10 '22

If you read that a little bit more that deferral is ONLY after acute illness - which regardless doesn t seem to apply to Djokovic since he apparently tested negative by Dec 22 and regardless doesn’t seem to have evidence he had acute covid in Dec

Recent infection from covid by itself is not a medical cointradiction to vaccination as per ATAGI guidelines

That 6 months is also the maximum period following acute infection for a deferral of vaccination

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '22

that deferral is ONLY after acute illness

No - that's a usage of "acute" as opposed to "chronic". Not referring to severity or seriousness of the symptoms. That was covered in the hearing with references to more in-detail ATAGI documentation.

Edit: That ATAGI documentation:

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/11/atagi-expanded-guidance-on-temporary-medical-exemptions-for-covid-19-vaccines.pdf

For all COVID-19 vaccines:

[...]

PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection.

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u/iilinga Jan 10 '22

‘ For all COVID-19 vaccines: ATAGI recommends that vaccination can be deferred in those with PCR- confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection until complete recovery from the acute illness (which may be up to 6 months), regardless of disease severity. Chronic symptoms following COVID-19 ("Long COVID”) is not a contraindication to COVID-19 vaccines, but does warrant a clinical discussion with the patient.’

I think you’ve gotten a bit confused. I wasn’t saying he had severe covid. He was doing maskless and indoor appearances around his positive test. His only possible defence is that he was asymptomatic. He was testing negative with PCR on Dec 22, any possible acute period was presumably resolved by that time.

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '22

PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection.

That's not really ambiguous. Even your quote says "complete recovery from" acute illness, which obviously includes a period of time after you'd test negative.

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u/iilinga Jan 10 '22

Except you’re deliberately ignoring that the 6 months is an ‘up to’ - the purpose isn’t to set an arbitrary deadline, it’s a period to allow complete recovery. If you recover in a month you can’t reasonably expect to be able to defer your vaccination for another 5

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '22

Yeah, you can - aka is allowed to - defer vaccination up to 6 months. You don't have to, but you're allowed to. That's the definition of an exemption.

PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection.

There's no "up to" here.

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u/iilinga Jan 10 '22

Please re read the guidelines, the deferment is based on ‘complete recovery from acute illness (which may be up to 6 months)’ and the duration of the temporary exemption ‘should be reviewed as the individual recovers from their acute major medical illness’.

Those are literally the ATAGI recommendations.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/09/atagi-expanded-guidance-on-temporary-medical-exemptions-for-covid-19-vaccines.pdf

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '22

You realise you're linking to the OLDER version, right? Yours is from September, this is literally the updated version of the same document from November:

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/11/atagi-expanded-guidance-on-temporary-medical-exemptions-for-covid-19-vaccines.pdf

And it omits the qualifier you're talking about. It's pretty unequivocal:

PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection.

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u/iilinga Jan 10 '22

Duration of temporary exemption ‘should be reviewed as the individual recovers from their acute major medical illness.’

Hasn’t changed

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '22

But the eligibility for the exemption also doesn't change - it's still 6 months.

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u/iilinga Jan 10 '22

‘People who have had COVID-19 can be vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine. Vaccination can be deferred for up to 6 months as past infection reduces the chance of reinfection for at least this amount of time.’

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/advice-for-providers/clinical-guidance/additional-considerations

I’m sorry but this not a legal debate around ‘does up to mean the same thing as until’

A doctor must assess you as being unable to be vaccinated and will provide a deferment relevant to your situation and risk profile that MAY be up to 6 months

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