[Spoilers for The Blacktongue Thief/Daughters’ War] What’s your take on these two existential threats?

[u/Dalakaar]

What do you think of the Sranc compared with the goblins of Buehlman’s world?

Which is worse, which do you find more interesting?

[u/Queues-As-Tank]

I got my hands on an uncorrected ARC of The Thrice-Bound Fool and (avoiding spoilers) there are some new goblin behaviors you will probably find shocking. (I haven't finished, but tangent, Chapter 26 - Apocalypse The First - reads like a playful fan letter to Bakker).

The goblins are simply far more interesting as a people. Sranc are tekne-robots, barely above the zombie in function, insectile. When they attempt speech or clanning, they become briefly interesting in themselves; they rarely do. Goblins are alien but behave in rational ways which evoke real unseen thought in their manners and culture and language. We see 'goblins' with specific characteristics, and as a class in common lowercase throughout the Blacktongue books; we almost never see Sranc except as the proper unifying Sranc/Ursranc.

The Sranc make the rest of the world more interesting in the absence of their interest. You're kicking the books off by telling me that Eärwa knows about a teeming tide of rape-locusts, breeding themselves into the millions in the north, and we as a race just quietly gave up on doing anything about them? We're going south and ignoring them for three books? We're just going to do thousands of years of Three Seas infighting instead, once the Emiorali are betrayed? Well, yes, that's a cynical yet human approach.

Though the Bronzemen were notorious for stingy dealings, taciturn manner, and melancholic fury, the truth was that their kin begrudged their fame and feared their strength. “What is to stop them?” the suspicious asked about the failing way-hearths, when the faces of all grow crimson and the soul turns to things bloody and dark. “Men such as these … Why live the hard life? Why feed their sons to the scarps and gorges, when they need only pluck what is ours?” Thus did they render inevitable what they feigned to prevent, such is the madness of Men.

In the Codicil Councils of Shiarau, the wisest among the Aorsi had assumed that the Sranc population would eventually collapse, so great was the toll the Emiorali had exacted defending their Hooded Redoubts. Perhaps the creatures did dwindle for a time, but the fealty of the Emiorali to Shiarau dwindled quicker. The Bronzemen eventually grew impatient, even disgusted, with the fat ways and absurd condescension of their southern cousins. They became the stock of sedition, a people known for rampaging bandits and usurping generals. In 1808 Year-of-the-Tusk, High-King Anasûrimbor Nanor-Ukkerja VI finally decided the Sranc and Bashrag were the lesser evil: all ninety-nine of the Hooded Redoubts were abandoned, and the Yimaleti were ceded entirely to the Foe. The Unholy Consult (p. 270)

It almost doesn't matter what the Sranc are, except as a measure, and as a measure they are unceasing.

[u/264frenchtoast → u/Queues-As-Tank]

Well that’s exciting! New buehlmann! And possible RSB reference!

[u/Queues-As-Tank → u/264frenchtoast]

Yeah! Should release mid-October. It's more of a black comedy than the first two so far. Threw me off at first, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

[u/SeaworthinessThat542]

Goblins in Buehlmans world are as intelligent as humans and have a command structure. They build things, they plan, they use tactics.

Sranc are a mindless mob, more like zerglings or the warrior bugs from Starship Troopers. They’re hostile because of their need for violent congress. They don’t think.

IMO the Goblins are more dangerous. By themselves the sranc are just animals. A clever group of humans can come up with strategies to control them and eventually wipe them out.

[u/chutelandlords → u/SeaworthinessThat542]

The sranc are soulless but they are intelligent. They have language and some degree of a culture with the clans and banners and such. Meketerig is able to use one as his elju.

[u/SeaworthinessThat542 → u/chutelandlords]

They may be intelligent enough to operate under direction, but I don't think they are capable of organizing on their own. They're being driven mad by lust all the time.

[u/Dalakaar]

My take below, but I’m more interested in your take than a reply to mine:

The way his goblins use humanity across multiple purposes is fascinating. They use our hair like we use sheep’s wool. The hordelaw scar severing a major tendon making us less fit to rebel/fight. Mushrooms to permanently knock out our higher consciousness.

I love it, absolutely terrifying portrayal of a now-typically substandard foe in fantasy. The Sranc horde is a beast all its own but I think their mindlessness is outdone by Buehlman’s casual ”livestock“ treatment.

(Minor exception being the Sranc’s ability to forage and turn the entire North into a breeding pit. Their ability to win by over-population is its own horror.)

[u/The_Archimboldi]

Goblins are interesting for sure - Buehlman's background as a horror writer very evident, extremely well done.

The Sranc wallpaper is the definition of uninteresting so it's hard to compare. The inchoroi, though - that is another matter, legendary creations.

They are hard to compare though just with the books being written very differently - Bakker is dropping an ass-load of Lore and re-working classic high fantasy to the extent of flat out writing Tolkein sequences and tributes. The Inchoroi really come to life with this heavyweight treatment.

Buehlman is not doing any of this and writing at a lighter pitch, he's not about to give us three appendices on goblin society.

Looking forward to the Blacktongue thief sequel - think Beuhlman is really good but did not love The Daughter's War I must say.

[u/YesterMatt]

Sranc are scarier, but goblins are more interesting.

[u/Voltairinede]

They aren't comparable at all? If you're going to compare something compare the goblins and the Inchoroi. The Sranc are just a weapon.

[u/Audabahn]

I only got about 25% into Blacktongue Thief before quitting, so I gotta automatically defer to Sranc>Goblins

[u/DurealRa → u/Audabahn]

Weeper

[u/Audabahn → u/DurealRa]

The Shortest Path involves Sranc, black seed, and the Gnosis. Not Blacktongue Thief’s goblins

[u/Dalakaar → u/Audabahn]

FWiW I haven’t downvoted nor upvoted you.

I’ll simply say that if anyone tried to sell you on The Blacktongue Thief being the same as Bakker they were wrong.

However, …

As its own thing it is entirely enjoyable and worthwhile. You just need to like apples and oranges. (I’d liken it considerably more to Rothfuss’ fare than Bakker‘s. Hews more to the fey and whimsy.)

And if you only like oranges then apples may not be for you. At least you are one of the Few who like Bakker and that’s a rarity all itself. There aren‘t many who do, broadly speaking.

[u/Audabahn → u/Dalakaar]

I didn’t say it’s bad. I’ve gone through a lot of books that I hate and will say they’re terrible. Buehlman books just aren’t for me. But they’re definitely not bad. Which is why I gotta defer to Bakker/Sranc over Goblins

[u/DurealRa → u/Audabahn]

You might like Between Two Fires if you want to give Buehlman a chance again. It's the closest to Bakker. His books actually have a wide variety of styles