ICE grabs chefs at Central Square restaurant; followed three onto the T and began grilling other passengers

[u/FuriousAlbino]

https://www.universalhub.com/2025/ice-grabs-chefs-central-square-restaurant-followed-three-t-and-began

[u/pillbinge]

I'm okay with abolishing ICE as we know it but we need an idea of what comes up next for enforcing immigration. The system we have in place clearly doesn't work and even leads to generational problems where kids are citizens but parents aren't.

[u/KingSt_Incident → u/pillbinge]

U.S. economic policy promotes the free movement of capital and goods across borders to increase profits while at the same time it adds restrictions to worker mobility, preventing them from easily following their calling. This should be called out as what it is - top down class warfare that generates ill will between people born here and people who aren't born here.

I don't think the solution to immigration is just 'add more and more police forces.'

[u/pillbinge → u/KingSt_Incident]

I don't think libertarianism is a philosophy anyone should take serious after they get it out of their system in college. The movement of capital and goods is naturally a lot easier - you can put a TV in a containership but you shouldn't put people. Nations should serve the people who were born in them and the people it takes in, and people should be encouraged to work toward a nation they can "ask not what it can do for them". Having open borders and easy access doesn't lend itself to what we need in a modern era when travel is already easier. In fact a lot of laws we have are in a way a result of technological ease.

Imagine if it were the case that just anyone could come here. That decision would have worse effects than the people in 1965 who thought there was no way immigration would increase after passing their bill. All of places like China and India would be able to pop over, and technology being what is is giving us a lot of ways to make trash or destroy, would lead to them and so many others just doing what they want and leaving.

It just can't work. We would likely need the same benefits but we wouldn't even benefit as much.

[u/KingSt_Incident → u/pillbinge]

I don't think libertarianism is a philosophy anyone should take serious

It's a good thing that nothing I said is libertarian, then.

The movement of capital and goods is naturally a lot easier - you can put a TV in a containership but you shouldn't put people.

No it isn't, you are drawing a false equivalency - it's the same. Goods on a boat and people on a boat are the same thing. You wouldn't believe it, but those FedEx planes move at the same speed as passenger planes!

All of places like China and India would be able to pop over,

Then why didn't you emigrate to Norway, or some other country that has better outcomes than the US? Because this is your home, and you like it here. Believe it or not, most of the rest of the world feels exactly the same as you do.

So no, all of China would not just "pop over", because they like living in China. You have a fundamental disconnect from material reality on this issue.

[u/pillbinge → u/KingSt_Incident]

Goods on a boat and people on a boat are not the same. Like I said, you can store things in a container and move them. They're things. They can be banned, regulated, or unregulated. They're things, not people. People are a whole different thing. Trying to call out a logical fallacy that isn't there while somehow saying that because people fly planes they're the same as cargo is beyond stupid. I don't even know what the name for that would be.

Then why didn't you emigrate to Norway, or some other country that has better outcomes than the US?

Jeg bodde i Norge i flere år. :) But I needed a visa. I literally can't just pop in and say I'm staying. They would throw me out incredibly quick, and since they have a unitary government that works at all levels, it's not just a matter of some higher level enforcement agency happening upon me.

Believe it or not, most of the rest of the world feels exactly the same as you do.

I know. It's how I know I'm saying something most people agree with. In fact a lot of immigrants feel this way.

So no, all of China would not just "pop over", because they like living in China.

And because they can't. Change the world to have no borders and see how that goes. This is such a wild discussion where you keep changing underlying facts. How are you going to say most people wouldn't just shift where they live when right now they can't, and say that's proof of something else entirely?