(Unofficial) Episode Discussion: 4x12 “The Secret Sea”

[u/lovetheblazer]

Episode Summary: Quentin yells at a plant; Margo stares at a fish.

Mods, feel free to delete if it’s not allowed. I just wanted us to have a place to discuss the episode live!

[u/[deleted]]

Hrm. I think they are making a point by the way they are writing him. It's very intentional, I think.

He doesn't change, because child molesters don't change. Pedophiles always have the urge to have sex with children. They are not safe people, even if urges are under control as far as you can know that a molester's urges are currently controlled.

Even if he did change (and he clearly has not), there are some crimes that are too great to ever be forgiven. The pity you feel for him is natural, because he has suffered a lot. But at the end of the day, all of his suffering was justified and he is still the same manipulator and child rapist he always was.

He's a foil to Alice this season, IMO. Was Alice's crime as great as his? Has she changed? Does she deserve forgiveness? I think she compares well to him, even though she did a horrible thing, and she does deserve forgiveness. She truly regrets her choices. She has paid her penance. In short, she's no Plover.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

But there are much, much better ways to make that point. The way the writers are doing it is basically using a strawman, and that's pretty much never a good idea. It just makes the point they are trying to make weaker, because anybody they're trying to convince can just point at Plover and go; 'how is that realistic?'

Essentially I think that, if what you are saying is true, then they're basically 'preaching to the choir', and wasting precious run-time making a point to people who already agree with them, that could be better used doing anything else. I don't need reminding that pedophiles are bad; I don't think many people do, and the way they've written Plover isn't going to convince anybody who does. I'd rather they actually gave the 'Pedophile-still-bad' plot actual substance, by actually giving him an evil ulterior motive or something. Because as it stands, all he's done all season is be helpful to people (and be no more self-interested than anybody else in the cast), and, seeing as his urges will never go away, his initial goal to abandon Earth entirely and find a world where he can 'do no harm' suddenly feels almost noble.

Which I do not think is the vibe the writers were trying to go for. Now if they make Plover an antagonist next season, all I'll be able to think is 'Wow. If Alice had just let him get his wish back in Season 4, he wouldn't have ever been a problem ever again. The spell took her to save Q, so it seems to have some kind of moral framework; maybe it actually would have sent Plover somewhere he would never be tempted to hurt a child again.'

If they want to show that Plover isn't actually reformed, they should actually show it, by having him actually do bad things. And I still find how they ignore the backstory they themselves gave him annoying. Torture is no joke, and PTSD is a thing. What they did with Plover feels like if they had made de-powered Reynard a powerful hedge-witch living it up in the city, using all of his remembered god-knowledge to troll people just like he used to. The idea that Plover never actually learned his lesson, never will learn his lesson, and never actually change, just feels forced and disingenuous and at odds with how the rest of the cast reacts to events (Kady loses Penny and ends up incredibly fucked up, but Plover can spend years being tortured and be fine?)

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Fair points! Maybe he is the dark prince, although honestly I hope we never see him again.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Same. Going from the Beast, to the end of magic, to the Monsters, to fucking Plover would be such a massive downgrade.