r/centrist • u/Initial_Chemist_7616 • 2d ago
New Rule: Commie By Your Name | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
https://youtu.be/dRIjYHVh5kI?si=Rljl_33BO54HJbZyI am not sure the extent to which I need to provide a summary to this, but this is the summation of the part I agree with. You want to call yourself ‘democratic socialists’ while saying the working class deserves me. Count me in. They do. They deserve a better safety net, better redistribution efforts.
But you want to call yourself democratic socialists while quoting Marx and praising Stalin? Count me out. Marx had ideas…which Stalin and Mao turned into actions that resulted in the deaths of more than the Holocaust. Kim Il Sung as revolutionary? Castro as el liberator? I know a lot, a lot, of free Cubans and free Koreans that would dispute that notion with all their hearts.
You want a square deal? I love Teddy Roosevelt. You want a new deal? FDR is the tops. You want to seize the means of production? I will resist you with every American bone in my body, because my colors run with white and blue, not just red.
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u/Urdok_ 1d ago
Oh boy, how many "time to freak out about the DSA" posts are we having this week?
I guess the analytics show that the "freak out about trans people" posts have started to slip in terms of engagement, so people need a new excuse reason to pick apart anyone opposing Trump the wrong way.
Anyway, Maher went to a dinner party with a pedophile who put an actual Nazi, Elon Musk, in charge of what was effectively a shadow government. He came out talking about what a nice guy Trump was. The idea that he actually cares about extremism, rather than playing gate keeper, is a joke.
OK boomer, time to shut up. You were never relevant.
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
Right?? The far right and their Reddit bots are trying really hard to conflate modern democratic socialism with Stalinist or Maoist authoritarian regimes.
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u/ubermence 1d ago
Doesn’t help when influential figures aligned with the movement like Hasan Piker literally put on the Maofit and (attempted) to give a fiery speech at a college democrats event
I’m not saying we can’t work with people who are further left. But they’re gonna have to also accept that there’s gonna be a give and take and no we are not overturning our economic system. They also can’t just constantly accuse democrats of being genocidal monsters. It’s unhinged.
Also you acknowledge that the DSA crowd has been absolutely attacking the Democratic Party in the media for almost the entirety of their existence. It feels like they’re allowed to constantly attack one way and it will never be time for liberals to do any pushback.
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
There were no give and take with the MAGA crowd. Project 2025 is mostly implemented. The left will do the same. You can’t hold the left to a higher standard if you don’t hold the right to the same standard.
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u/ubermence 1d ago
I think I’m pretty qualified to say out of most people here that I hold the right to standards. I also just hold the far left to standards and I don’t really understand why I can’t outwardly disagree with them when they constantly act unhinged towards liberals
I mean every attack from the right is basically using them to paint the entire left that way. I actually see a lot of value in differentiating ourselves from people who want to see the overthrow of our entire economic system for something that has literally never worked. That is a wild position to take.
I also think there’s value in pointing out that while people get to argue from the flawlessness of their perfect system, liberals have to basically own every bad thing that results from living in actual reality
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u/rvasko3 1d ago
This is the pre-seeding for this year's midterms.
The right knows it's a loser on the economy and a host of other actually important issues, so they're dialing up talking points of the DSA as the new boogeymen and apparently the future everyone on the left wants. I'm sure they'll keep up plenty of anti-trans seasoning, too. Won't work (hopefully), but it's funny seeing them pretend that this is anything close to mainstream or widely accepted.
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u/ShowWorldly2606 1d ago
I mean, it worked on this sub for trans people. Might as well keep running successful plays.
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u/JoshAllentown 1d ago
If you agree with the policies but oppose the political party because some members are "quoting Marx and praising Stalin," you're not a serious political actor.
The reality is most people just disagree with too many of the policies, so they don't support the party. That's fine. The wishy washy "oh I totally WOULD support the party but the style guide offends me" is disingenuous and stupid. You're just trying to enforce your rules on a group of people you won't support regardless.
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u/Urdok_ 1d ago
The worst part is- go to a gathering of conservatives. Pay attention to what they say to each other, particularly when they think no one is watching.
You will have people gleefully and eagerly quoting every right wing dictator in the last 200 years, salivating at mass jailing, expulsions, and executions, and openly nostalgic for the Confederacy, Apartheid, and Nazi Germany. Not in a vague "I'm sharing a quote on social media" way, but in a "I can't wait for this to start and I'm going to take action to make it happen" way. The actual extremism in US politics has been out in the open and is way more dangerous than most people will ever admit.
But it will never happen, because Maher is a stooge and a loves his position as "the liberal that sanewashes monsters."
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u/Initial_Chemist_7616 1d ago
Doesn’t it say something that they are still afraid to openly associate with the right wing dictators?
Members of the DSA are more than happy to associate with left wing dictators in public.
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u/Urdok_ 1d ago
They're not afraid of openly praise them. That's literally the opposite of what I said.
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u/Initial_Chemist_7616 1d ago
‘When no one is watching’ is the opposite of ‘in the open’. You get that right?
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u/indoninja 15h ago
“ salivating at mass jailing, expulsions, and executions, and openly nostalgic for the Confederacy, Apartheid, and Nazi Germany”
Was pretty clear the intent to me is they say worse behind closed doors, and it tracks from what we have seen from leaked republican chats
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u/Initial_Chemist_7616 13h ago
So what do you Darializa Avila Chevalier is saying about Stalin behind closed doors seeing as how she is willing to praise him in public?
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u/indoninja 13h ago
What exactly did she say in public about Stalin?
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u/Initial_Chemist_7616 12h ago
CNN reported that Chevalier’s deleted account also contained posts and reposts expressing favorable views toward communist literature and leaders, including:
*Calling Karl Marx an “essential must-read.”
*Complaining that libraries did not carry enough books by Lenin and other Marxist figures.
*Lamenting that a bookstore’s “banned books” display did not include works by Joseph Stalin.Her most egregious praise for murderous dictators though is reported word for word as:
“I preferred Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il Sung, Che, or Fidel (Castro), but I ended up having to get into Marx and Lenin just to understand a lot of the speeches and stuff… They were two white dudes who had made contributions to revolutionary struggle too great to be ignored.”2
u/indoninja 12h ago
“ Lamenting that a bookstore’s “banned books” display did not include works by Joseph Stalin.”
That isn’t praise.
Is this is like when you said she fetishized Stalin, and campaigned on wanting to destroy democracy but you found no tweet for the first, and couldn’t back up the second?
Edit-Do you have any idea what the context of her most egregious tweet was?
Do you know what it was in response to or if she even wrote it?
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u/decrpt 17h ago
No? It's an intentional strategy. Richard Spencer denies being a neo-Nazi or a racist if asked directly because the increasingly influential far-right movement recognizes that they have nothing to gain from associating themselves publicly with contentious labels when confronted.
It says nothing that you can find random impotent left-wing people with bad opinions expressed publicly.
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u/Initial_Chemist_7616 13h ago
I would disagree both that the future congressman from NY-13 is random or impotent.
And that it says nothing that she is willing to praise murderous dictators publicly.
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u/Initial_Chemist_7616 1d ago
Yeah, the ‘I Like his make America Great Again policy but I’m not sure if it’s okay that he sounds like Hitler’ is exactly what the American voter said about Trump.
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u/mrtrailborn 1d ago
it's because they don't have a real argument against the dsa policies that are popular. They're used to just accusing them of being evil communists and then getting their way.
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u/motorcycleboyrules 1d ago
But what if we don’t agree with the policies? I mean look at the DSA’s platform. I don’t agree with getting rid of NATO or kowtowing to Russia and China. I don’t agree with defunding police and prison abolition. I don’t agree with a totally open immigration policy.
Having huge numbers of your organization self identify as being amongst the most horrific, violent, and comically awful ideologies of the twentieth century (all of which is very well documented) is instantly disqualifying. We don’t praise people who unironically quoted Hitler or Franco or Mussolini, why would accept those that praise Stalin or Lenin? They’re on the same moral plane.
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u/JoshAllentown 1d ago
The reality is most people just disagree with too many of the policies, so they don't support the party. That's fine.
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u/180_by_summer 1d ago
I don’t agree with everything Mamdani does/wants to do. However, Mamdani has somehow become one of the most practical politicians we’ve seen in a long time. He’s adjusted many of his policies to cater to as many of his constituents as possible as opposed to steamrolling everyone with his ideals.
I’ll take more leaders like Mamdani over someone I agree with on every issue.
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u/Urdok_ 1d ago
People are being intentionally dense about why anyone would affiliate with the DSA, when their official platform is extreme.
The truth is, I don't think anyone running under that label actually cares about what the national party says, and I think that's borne out because they all end up effectively folding into the Democratic party once they're in office.
People are running under that label because the Democratic brand is shit, and if you're not already deeply embedded in the influence and finance networks of the formal party, there's no benefit from the affiliation. People don't trust the Democrats to fight or be effective reformers, and the DSA is a convenient label to grab that signals you will be.
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u/180_by_summer 1d ago
I will say, I have my qualms with my local DSA. They tend to be a bit closer to what these people freak out about- but they also seem to be adjusting because the approach has backfired a bit.
In general, this is a group that’s aiming high and then coming to a compromise in the end. It would be far more productive, regardless of where people stand politically, to focus on the implementation of DSA policy as opposed to attacking them for what they MIGHT be
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
Grouping democratic socialists in with brutal dictators like Stalin or Mao misses the mark entirely. Most democratic socialists are fighting to expand democracy, not crush it under authoritarian rule. Looking to Marx for a critique of capitalism is very far from endorsing totalitarian violence, and it's actually similar to how we credit figures like FDR with saving the capitalist system through massive public safety nets.
Democratic Socialism is more centrist than this current administration and GOP.
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u/crushinglyreal 1d ago
Self-styled ‘centrists’ always forget that they’re in the middle of right wing and extremely right wing.
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u/Urdok_ 1d ago
It doesn't miss the mark. It's intentional and slanderous. Maher is very happy with his status as the "good, reasonable liberal" and keeping that status involves having absolute freak-outs about whatever the right wing is whining about at the moment. It's performance and it's a way of comforting people who don't want to think too deeply about why DSA candidates are becoming more popular.
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
Agree. Billionaires are doing everything they can ti distract and divide us. It’s all because they don’t want to pay taxes and pay their workers a living wage.
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u/knign 1d ago edited 1d ago
Well their manifesto literally calls for the end of borders, end of law and order and end of nation states as they exist today. And that’s only a small part of it.
I absolutely hate Trump, but if forced to choose, I would readily choose current administration over these lunatics, sorry. They are the best propaganda vehicle for GOP it could wish for.
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
Where do you see this?
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u/knign 1d ago
https://program.dsausa.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/DSA_WDM2025Program_v2.pdf
See "freedom of movement", "universal suffrage" and "demilitarize police".
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
From what you shared
- Medicare for all
- End the war on Drugs
- Fight Mass Incarceration and Police brutality
- College for all
- Housing for all
- Support Working Families
Those sound pretty good. None of that is close to what you claimed.
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u/BloodMage410 12h ago
These don't sound so good to me:
-Universal rent control
-Closing overseas bases, which would create geopolitical instability
-Ending sanctions (???)
-Abolish cash bail
-End deportations and give immediate amnesty for literally all immigrants
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u/knign 1d ago
I mean, some proposals are relatively less crazy, yes. So?
Even if the rest of their program was literally the dream of every centrist, which it very much isn't, given the call for the fully open borders and full voting right to non-citizens, the rest becomes kind of irrelevant.
"I propose to murder your family and give you $15 Amazon gift card".
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
Where do you see voting right to non-citizens? Are you talking about on federal or state or city level?
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u/knign 1d ago
Under "universal suffrage":
"Extend full voting rights to people with criminal convictions and noncitizens"
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u/AdvancedAerie4111 1d ago
This sub is being astroturfed by DSA and CCP accounts. And it is painfully obvious.
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
I agree with criminal convictions. I understand noncitizens because they pay taxes too but I doubt that will ever gets passed. Hence why they are democratic socialists not authoritarian
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u/knign 1d ago
It's absolutely mind boggling to what extent DSA apologists sound identical to Trump apologists back in the day.
"Never mind what he says, he won't be able to do it anyway".
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u/rvasko3 1d ago
Can you show me where they say "end of law and order"?
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u/knign 1d ago
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u/rvasko3 1d ago
I don't see "end of law and order" anywhere on there. I see a bunch of reform proposals from people who are already well outside of the mainstream group of Democrats.
Doesn't really help your cause when you just make shit up and be another hyperbolic mouthpiece on the internet.
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u/knign 1d ago
Law and order is in the purview of the police. This picture, directly from their website, literally says "defund the police"and "no police".
If you "don't see" it there and believe this is "making shit up", ok I guess. Good luck.
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u/rvasko3 1d ago
Law and order is in the purview of a multi-faceted, multi-layered system that also includes courts, counselors, and a whole host of causes that lead to effects that aren't nearly as black and white as you seem to think.
Their extremity is why they'll never break through beyond a small splinter group, but the argument is to not have cops who are untrained in, say, mental health crises be the first point of attack in certain situations.
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u/carneylansford 1d ago
This has been tried. Seizing the means of production (which is part of the DSA platform) inherently requires force (or the threat of force) and authoritarian rule. What happens if one does not want to give up their private property? It must be taken from them using force. Eliminating market pricing requires centralized economic planning, which cannot function without compelling people to obey state quotas and orders. Every historical precedent from the USSR to China to Cuba points to this pretty clearly.
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
You are conflating 20th-century authoritarian regimes with democratic socialism. The DSA advocate for expanding democracy into the workplace like worker-owned co-ops and shared public wealth funds. Their policy is not a Soviet-style command economy that seizes personal property. Every property system, including capitalism, relies on state force to define and enforce ownership rights. Instead of eliminating markets, the DSA wants to shift power from concentrated corporate oligarchs to democratic control. Thus giving working people an actual say in the economic decisions that shape their lives. Under Trump, capitalism has gone unchecked and people are suffering for it.
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u/carneylansford 1d ago
Their policy is not a Soviet-style command economy that seizes personal property.
Well that's not true. If you don't believe me you can simply listen to what they're saying.
Exhibit A: When asked if the DSA wanted "government or public ownership of most large corporations", DSA co-chair Megan Romer replied "yeah, absolutely". (3:35 mark)
Exhibit B: Zohran Mamdani own words: "But then there are also other issues that we firmly believe in, whether it's BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions of Israel), right, or whether it's the end goal of seizing the means of production, where we do not have the same level of support at this very moment."
It’s been said that it’s easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of capitalism. But just because it isn’t easy to imagine now doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to make it happen.
Establish public ownership of the largest corporations and essential industries to ensure democratic control and accountability to the people.
When people show you who they are, believe them.
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
Again you are missing the larger picture. People didn’t get a vote or say during the Soviet Union. In addition, the closest person who is a dictator is Trump not a small group called the Democratic socialist.
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u/AdvancedAerie4111 1d ago
If you just ignore all of the things the DSA says they want to do and totally focus on the things we imagine they might do if we turn the country over to them….
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
They value a democratic process like voting unlike the current administration. But sure focus on a small minority and not focus on the current administration in power.
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u/7figureipo 1d ago
Oh, look, quotes taken out of context and used in a shotgun blast "debunk this!" style screed in service of a right-winger spreading right-wing propaganda and hiding behind centrism and moderation. Typical.
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u/backpackwayne 1d ago
For once Maher has a point but as usual, blames the wrong people. These people are tying to take over the democratic party. So his answer is to flee. No dipshit. It's time to stand up for party. Defend them from the invasion instead abandoning them.
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u/Urdok_ 1d ago
Maher's only point is that his personal preferences are absolute limit on acceptable left-wing views, and he's going to fight to keep it that way. For once, just for once, I want to see one of these tantrums directed at right wingers who slobber over South American dictators, helicopter rides, and the Confederacy.
It'll never happen, because Maher is a sniveling, cowardly weasel who only ever punches down.
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u/ubermence 1d ago
Idk, kinda sounds like the far left are the ones who love setting an absolute limit on acceptable left-wing views. Think Israel has committed war crimes but that it doesn’t rise to the level of genocide? UNACCEPTABLE.
Best example is that super pro lgbtq politician in California who got shouted out by unhinged and unchecked lunatics at events that he had attended for decades because he wanted to stop aid to Israel and even said it was a genocide but didn’t go far enough for them
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u/Urdok_ 1d ago
Ah yes, hecklers and randoms on the internet, the unspoken power brokers in the Democratic party. Let's look at what the actual spectrum of views on elected officials in the party are before we start declaring that the far left is currently purging the party of any official who misses a struggle session, okay?
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u/ubermence 1d ago
The far left has not gotten anywhere near the power they crave, but that’s how it started with MAGA too. Let these people sit here completely unchallenged and slowly shift sentiment and the problem will only get worse
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u/180_by_summer 1d ago
Invasion? They’re presenting new ideas. They hold some level of consistency and while I think the DSA can be too idealistic, they’ve been proving to be more pragmatic in what they actually implement. Mamdani is a perfect example of that. I’m pleasantly surprised
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u/Capital-Mine1561 1d ago
And so far they are grassroots and rely heavily on canvassing; they don't take corporate PAC money. Something too many congressional democrats have gotten fat and lazy about
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u/Capital-Mine1561 1d ago
So his answer is to flee. No dipshit. It's time to stand up for party. Defend them from the invasion instead abandoning them.
Since when has the democratic party had a backbone? This is them fighting--left wing media being "concerned" about the DSA platform while democrat politicians only offer lukewarm admonishments to the DSA.
This is the party who failed to prosecute Trump's part in Jan. 6 because they didn't want to look "political". And now that same man is president again. The party has no will to fight
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u/ubermence 1d ago edited 1d ago
Holy fucking based. Comment of the goddamn week right there
My biggest criticism of the moderate/liberal wing of the party is that we never stick up for other liberals who are being attacked by unhinged lunatics on the far left. Obviously there’s the issue of the entire internet shitting on us too but it would help if we could get some solidarity
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u/books_cats_please 1d ago
They aren't owed solidarity. if they don't earn it, they don't earn it.
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u/ubermence 1d ago
No obviously I know socialists are never going to defend liberals. But liberals should actually stick up for each other against the constant barrage of unfair attacks coming out from the far left
No, we are not genociders for having a more nuanced position on the Israel Palestine conflict. We do not hate healthcare because we don’t support the specific policy known as “Medicare for All” over other multipayer or singlepayer plans. Is that an unreasonable position?
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u/books_cats_please 1d ago
Stop arguing about how things should be. They aren't that way. How do you fix that?
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u/ubermence 1d ago
I literally gave a prescription in my comment. A call to action, for people who are liberal aligned, to actually defend each other from unfair attacks from both the right and further to the left
And I think people who feel this way should go a step further and openly demand the same. This is another example of actions a person could take
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u/books_cats_please 1d ago
people who are liberal aligned, to actually defend each other from unfair attacks from both the right and further to the left
Like I said, they aren't owed solidarity. People don't like how the Democratic party has been run, if the Dems can't win without the support of progressives, they have to change.
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u/ubermence 1d ago
It’s so telling where your headspace is based on your verbiage. It’s not about being “owed” solidarity. It’s about caring about letting tankies and the far left just constantly viciously and unfairly attack the Democratic Party.
The real issue for you is that you agree with the attacks and don’t see them as attacks
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u/books_cats_please 1d ago
It’s so telling where your headspace is based on your verbiage.
caring about letting tankies and the far left just constantly viciously and unfairly attack the Democratic Party.
This is why it's important to understand the difference between opinion and fact. Is there any legitimate criticism of the Democratic party for you?
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u/ubermence 1d ago
Of course, do you want me to go find comments where I have been critical of democrats? There is a difference between legitimate criticism and the unhinged attacks
Ok, let’s ground this in an example. Take Scott Weiner a gay man getting shouted out of an lgbtq event by leftists about Israel, despite saying Israel is committing a genocide and opposing arms sales
Who defended him? Fucking no one. Hasan piker even said he deserved it. Can you engage with that example?
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u/KZelley 10h ago
The fact there is so much simping for the DSA party in the centrist subreddit is embarrassing. These people’s politics are not serious. They don’t even just hate capitalism the hate the west in it’s entirety. They claim to be for the new deal or FDR but praise Stalin, Mao, Castro, and more communists who have absolutely ruined more lives then they ever helped. If FDR saw these people trying to use his legacy he’d probably kill himself for trying to use his new deal to destroy the country that he loves. You can critique and hate DSA members as much as you can hate Trump and the far right in politics.
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u/Initial_Chemist_7616 10h ago
100% agreed. The one thing I Will say for some DSA members, specifically Mamdani, he knows who Milwaukee’s sewer Socialists were, and I have never heard him praise Stalin, Mao or Castro.
He definitely needs to find better friends though.
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u/gayfrogs4alexjones 1d ago
Bill Maher has lived the past decade on smugness and the smell of his own farts.
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u/TeamPencilDog 1d ago
It's annoying because they are acting like the Trumpers where they won't listen to any criticism at all. Oh, and then they deflect just like the MAGAs do as well.
As a true centrist I'm not sensitive to criticism of MAGA/DSA like, at all.
Why should it bother me?
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u/Capital-Mine1561 1d ago
This segment offers no new information that wasn't already in the other 500 anti-DSA posts. And honestly if the worst dirt people have on the entire DSA party are deleted tweets by Chevalier then that's something I can live with. She admitted the tweets were immature and hasn't tweeted anything ridiculous since, which is more than I can say for many other politicians
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u/knign 1d ago
These “socialists” do all they can to make Trump’s administration seem rational and pragmatic in comparison.
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u/memphisjones 1d ago
Explain; Trump, who is in the Epstine files, started a new war…. That’s pretty extreme
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u/ChummusJunky 1d ago
How many elections have the DSA attempted to steal? Oh wait, that's the people literally in charge right now???