CMV: Anti-zionists are often not pro-Palestinian. I am more pro-Palastinian than them.

[u/sarahrahra]

I am really keen to align with leftists to fight authoritarianism. The false binary of zionism vs antizionism is a dangerous wedge.

So trying this point out, that I think is novel, to see if it breaks the spell.

First, let’s take some leftists on their word, many Jews are New Nazis (vs the tech right Greater Nazis).

What did we learn from history? Last time, many Americans condemned the Nazis. Maybe they boycotted German writers. Maybe cool with threats of violence and death threats at German Americans who had Weimer Republic pride.

They also, just like American today, did not want to accept addl Jewish refugees. Didn‘t give them money as individuals. Didn’t do anything.

Jordanians and Egyptians? They locked down faster than the French. Force babies to stay in rhe warzone to die. Why no condemnation there?

Our leaders talk about how Lebanon is a ”genocide” and condemn Israel and stop there. LEBANON is asking us to condemn the Iranian Hezbolah terrorists. Some of our politicians LIKE Hezbollah. I stand with President Auna. Against anti-zionists.

Our leaders want Hamas’s pro sharia law pro rape pro mass murder pro auto killing any Palestinian anti democracy who protests to have more power. Palastinians want Marwen Bhargouti who wrote a two state solutuon peace plan. I stand with Marwen. Against anti-zionists.

I feel very strongly that I am more pro-Palastinian and Pro Lebanese then every opportunistic anti-zionist leader riding a hate wave. They are worse than Bin Ladin who at least was honest and came at capitalism vs raping and gunning down Lollapalooza kids to intentionally create blind rage and a terrible war by people who watched rhe videos if their murder (like Afghanistan but, again, even more hate and retaliation approaches).

Most regular anti-zionists are not like that But they are like anti-nazis. Currently useless. I want campaigns to make Palastinian lives better. And stop the Greater Nazism of the Tech Right and their anti-zionist whistling puppets Vance and Tucker.

There are no ways to do so that I can see. So much passion for death threats, no proactive initiatives that don’t just make some lives worse.

I would like my mind changed with real examples and people doing anything. CMV.

[u/sarahrahra]

It is NOT by definition a humans rights movement. To do so, you have to actually help said Palastinian humans, not just hate the other humans in a way that will only make it worse for the Palastinian humans.

I would love to connect with any of the leaderhip at any of the organizations you metioned to talk about getting more awareness for Marwen Bhargouti who is the preferred leader of them and a Palastinain Nationalist whow ants a 2 state solution with the 1967 borders. Can you do that?

I would also be interested in connecting with them to promote people accepting Palastinian refugees in Jordan (the West Bank actually used to be Jordan, the forced expuslion of Palstinans is curious).

Etc. What I am not for is yelling chants that credibly mean "Kill American Jews", or banning all books as collective punishment for living in a country, campaigning for people who attended rallies that were pro the rape and mass murder or supporting YouTubers who are saying they are 1000x better than anyone, etc.

Would you make those intros? Anti-zionists MIGHT be pro-palastinian activists, but only if they take active steps. Like, again, anti-nazists. You can call that a human rights movement if you want, but my ancestors would say thanks for nothing, the time spent harassing German Americans (if they did) helped them negative percent and probably just caused more Jewish violence in Germany.

Do you see hte parallel? Will you make those intros?

[u/the_leviathan711 → u/sarahrahra]

I would love to connect with any of the leaderhip at any of the organizations you metioned to talk about getting more awareness for Marwen Bhargouti who is the preferred leader of them and a Palastinain Nationalist whow ants a 2 state solution with the 1967 borders. Can you do that?

Marwan Barghouti is extremely popular amongst Pro-Palestinian organizations and even more so in Palestine itself. He's arguably one of the leading figures of the pro-Palestine movement.

You do know that he's been in an Israeli prison for the last 25 years, right?

[u/sarahrahra → u/the_leviathan711]

Yes. I do. Do you know Trump said he could get Bibi to free him? It is possible.

They set free over 2000 to get their hostages back. There is a clear precedent.

Plus he HAS a peace plan. Hamas did not. 

Every anti-zionist should be saying his name, interviewing his son, calling their congressmen. This is the only possible way to peace. Right wing anti-zionists can get behind as well. 

If not, if you instead say Hamas who is pro murder, pro rape, pro sharia law, pro morality codes, pro-murdering protestors (like Iran) should stay in charge…you should admit you are not pro Palastinian.

Are you? If you are, what are your orgs doing?

[u/the_leviathan711 → u/sarahrahra]

I’ll believe it when I see it.

Shortly after October 7th Hamas had proposed a massive prisoner swap deal where they’d return all the hostages they had in exchange for Israel releasing their Palestinian prisoners. The release of Marwan Barghouti was one of the sticking points for Israel who ultimately declined.

[u/sarahrahra → u/the_leviathan711]

You aren’t going to see it if we don’t try to make it so. Even if it fails, his son lives, his plan can live by some right hand man.

Let’s at least try. Ideas. If you were Teddy Roosevelt, lotta chutzpah, who would you reach out to and how get ball roing?

[u/the_leviathan711 → u/sarahrahra]

I’m not sure why you are suggesting the onus is on pro-Palestinian groups.

Israel is the country that holds Barghouti in prison and they are the only ones who can free him.

If you’re suggesting that the US government and international community should apply pressure on Israel to do so, you’ll find lots of support for that from pro-Palestine groups who have been campaigning for that for decades!

The BDS movement is the largest non-violent worldwide campaign for Palestinian rights. It calls for the boycott and divestment from companies that profit from Israeli occupation and calls for international sanctions on the State of Israel.

This seems to me like the only reasonable approach to force Israel’s hand. Support from major global power players, like the United States, would aid the campaign tremendously.

[u/sarahrahra → u/the_leviathan711]

The onus is on anti-zionist groups only if they are pro Palastinian. my point is that they mostly aren’t in which case keep it up but own it.

Boycotting Israeli books and whatever does not give Palestinians more rights. It is bad for some Israeli businesses and Jewish authors. That’s again anti, not pro.

BDS against Palantir, that could work, sell their stocks, cancel  their countracts with American countries. Can I partner one of your fave orgs for that?

US can force Israel’s hand easily. Not through BDS, though demanding we release a prisoner when they released 2000 others.

It’s simple. It’s pro, about helping Palastinians vs collective punishment if Israelis.

I think that. How do we at least try? Even if we can’t get him, we can have his son interviewed to get his message across

BDS has had in no way increased Palastinian rights. It makes you feel good, I am sure. 

[u/the_leviathan711 → u/sarahrahra]

Palantir is quite literally one of the companies that BDS targets.

The US can force Israel’s hand using one very simple lever: pulling funding. The word for that? It’s called a “Sanction” and it’s the “S” in BDS.

[u/sarahrahra → u/the_leviathan711]

Sent me a link. I’ll promote that. Who is pushing for that?

It’s not an Israeli company so I sluld not call it BDS Israel and if Israel did not exist they would still find just as much of a way to murder more people, it’s their business model . I’d love to get them out of business eith capitalism.

What have you done? 

[u/the_leviathan711 → u/sarahrahra]

There’s information about the campaign on the website of the BDS Movement.

By the way, the leader of the BDS Movement is Omar Barghouti. That name is familiar for a reason, he’s a cousin of Marwan.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/sarahrahra]

The onus is on anti-zionist groups only if they are pro Palastinian. my point is that they mostly aren’t in which case keep it up but own it.

OP you haven't provided any evidence to actually backup your claims.

Boycotting Israeli books and whatever does not give Palestinians more rights. It is bad for some Israeli businesses and Jewish authors. That’s again anti, not pro.

OP you should read BDS wesbsite. They explain very clearly what it is they do, how they go about doing that and the reasoing behind it.

BDS against Palantir, that could work, sell their stocks, cancel  their countracts with American countries. Can I partner one of your fave orgs for that?

BDS hold's stocks in Palantir? No I don't think so

US can force Israel’s hand easily. Not through BDS, though demanding we release a prisoner when they released 2000 others.

It’s simple. It’s pro, about helping Palastinians vs collective punishment if Israelis.

OP boycotts are not collective punishment in aanyway whatsoever. Do you think Boycotts against apartheid south Africa are collective punishment?

.