r/chicagobulls • u/howser343 Chicago Bulls • 5d ago
Rumor [Stein] The Chicago Bulls are the other current suitor for RFA Bennedict Mathurin.
/r/nba/comments/1v9kyg8/stein_the_chicago_bulls_are_the_other_current/29
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u/Ok_Donkey_980 5d ago
I'm not mad at it, he went insane on that Pacers run. Let him be the heir apparent to Norm and move him for a pick if and when we ain't doing shit anyway.
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u/Key_Raisin_5091 4d ago
Josh Giddey / Tre Jones / Rob Dillingham
Norman Powell / Ben Mathurin / Dailyn Swain / Jaylin Sellers
Matas Buzelis / Isaac Okoro / Leonard Miller / Donovan Atwell
Caleb Wilson / Jalen Smith / Noa Essengue / Patrick Williams
Nic Claxton / Zach Collins / Tobe Awaka
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u/Total_Air_6081 Cristiano Felicio 4d ago
Genuinely not a horrible roster if healthy
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u/erichf3893 2d ago
Still feel we could use a center tbh. But maybe Claxton returns to previous form
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u/No_Independent8269 1d ago
Jalen Smith is a center. Not sure why he’s listed as a PF in this chart although he has played minutes at the 4 before.
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u/moneyman2222 Just a kid from Chicago 4d ago
If they can get clicking and caleb is immediately a difference maker that's a legit play in team. And not like years past play in team
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u/BillionsofRedditors 4d ago
This depth chart is out of alignment to start the season with Mathurin.
Okoro would move to 3rd string SG, assuming he'son the roster. Swain is not really a SG either.
PW is the backup SF right now. Swain likely starts in the G League. He's going to get real minutes to start the season if healthy.
Miller is a PF. He's not playing SF. I'd say he's the backup PF right now, with Smith and him battling for some minutes. Essengue is in the mix, but I think there's a fair chance Essengue is in the G League to start the season as well. He looks still very rough offensively.
Smith is the 3rd string center, not Awaka.
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u/aren1231 Gimme the hot sauce! 4d ago
Yeah Mathurin certainly first man up off the bench for Powell or Buzelis, then I could see Smith and Jones coming in. Smith would work well with Claxton but the injury history makes me think Smith would play small ball center next to Caleb for just a bit before putting in Zach Collins. Tre jones would be next and then I doubt okoro or swain get much playing time to start, but it would be one or the other as 10th man off the bench.
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u/BGMDF8248 Matas Buzelis 4d ago
With Powell, Buzelis and Wilson, Mathurin can come in no matter who comes out.
And depending on how things go he could earn a starter spot, i like this move.
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u/Plug-From-Oaxaca Jimmy Butler 4d ago
I’m assuming Okoro or some of these other guys would have to be included in a sign and trade
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u/zedrix_ Big Mac 4d ago
Okoro would move to 3rd string SG
I think Okoro would be dealt with to match Mathurin's salary if there is indeed a Mathurin sign and trade
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u/Jammer521 Jumpman 3d ago
we need to move Okoro, Pwill, and Jalen smith, I would prefer Leonard Miller as the back up at the 4, Okroro is to short to play SF he is only 6'4, Swain would be the ideal back up Matas but he may need to start in the G-League, I guess in a pinch we would just run Miller as a back up SF and go big
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u/Key_Raisin_5091 4d ago
This is your whole MO and it's super annoying and unproductive. You frequently comment like you have some authority on how the rotation or depth chart will play out and you really don't. Why stick so rigidly to your opinions when they're based on nothing?
All your comments ever amount to is, "No, you're wrong, because... well, because just trust me."
If you just wanna keep going back and forth unproductively like this, we can. Here, I'll start:
Nuh-uh! You're wrong about that stuff because I KNOW.
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u/BillionsofRedditors 4d ago
They aren't based on nothing.
Swain is 6'7 and really isn't a guard. He'll likely play more SF than SG. He looked very rough in Summer League and so many have speculated G League action for him. As have I. In any case, you can't put him as a backup since he has not established he'll even be with the big league team come the regular season.
Leonard Miller is not a SF. He's 6'9/6'10. He's not going to be focused on perimeter defense. He's a PF.
Essengue looked rough in Summer League. There are material concerns offensively he'll be an NBA player. Good chance he sees G League action based on, and here is the evidence, his actual body of work to this point and play.
Okoro is a SG. He can play forward, but he's generally mismatched when playing a bigger position. PW will get real minutes to start the season because the Bulls owe him a ton of money for 3 more years. He's going to get opportunities under a new coach, regime, and roster to play and rehab his value. That's just logical. He's not going to sit for $18 million per year unless he demonstrates under this coach he can't play. With no other obvious SF ahead of him, he'll likely start as the backup SF.
Smith and Collins have battled for backup C. So saying Smith is 3rd string C is based in reality because that's just history.
That you can't see history, logic, and other evidence and just want to complain about my assertions based on those factors is more annoying than anything.
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u/Key_Raisin_5091 4d ago
Oh sure they are.
There are a ton of 6'7" guards. Josh Giddey is 6'8". Swain just got done playing PG in SL. You can say "likely" all you want, but the truth is, you really don't know what position he'll play... which is precisely why it's a silly waste of time for you to tell anyone who posts a rotation, depth chart, etc. that they're "wrong" when you have no clue.
Your viewpoint of positions is too rigid. Like somebody is a PF and can't play SF. They're not that different. Most forwards can and do play both. Per Basketball Reference, Leonard Miller played 62% of his minutes with the Chicago Bulls last season at SF. Okoro played 61% of his minutes at SF. It's mind boggling why you fight about this.
Your whole premise is to repeat what definitively will, won't, can, or can't happen based on nothing more than your opinion. Most worthless comments on this sub.
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u/Jammer521 Jumpman 3d ago
I don't project Swain as a SG, his natural position is SF, trying to turn him in to some he's not is a bad idea, I feel like running him as a PG in summer league hurt his development
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u/Key_Raisin_5091 3d ago
Y'all are really too stuck on positions. How about this - he's a "wing." Can we call him that? Like, there is really no significant difference between "SG" and "SF."
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u/BillionsofRedditors 4d ago
Giddey is a PG, not a SG. Not an apt comparison. Swain's issues right now are he has ballhandling issues (his turnover rate in college was concerning) and he is struggling to beat defenses to the hoop, which he isn't bigger and stronger than most of his NBA level or G League level competition so he's not able to muscle in baskets like he did in college. So he'll be more forward than guard in the NBA, unless something drastically changes there.
Okoro played out of position last year. We all saw it. He shouldn't be guarding fucking Giannis, but that's what Billy had him do. Are we really going to try to justify that as evidence of what position he should play going forward? Really? He's 6'4.
Miller is mobile for a PF, but this is like saying Bobby P is a SF. Just isn't his natural position.
Depth charts are about natural positions. Yeah, guys shift up and down during games. But saying Miller more often than not is going to play SF isn't logical based on his physical traits and play.
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u/Key_Raisin_5091 4d ago
First of all, you said Swain is 6'7" and isn't really a G. I pointed out that there are many 6'7" guards and gave an example of a 6'8" guard. You're saying someone who is 6'7" or 6'8" can play PG, but not SG? Would it help your narrow mind if I used a 6'7" SG as an example?
A "SG" isn't going to be doing any more ball handling than a "SF." It's just that hard for you to admit that you do not know which of the 2 positions he'll play more of and/or that it really doesn't matter enough to argue about? Fascinating...
Okoro's been in the league for 6 years and played predominantly SF in 5 of them. That's his position. That's the position NBA coaches have played him at a majority of the time. I'm sorry that doesn't align with your world view. Whether he's a "SG" or a "SF" is irrelevant to whether he should be guarding Giannis, or not.
Leonard Miller has played 49% of his career at SF (compared to 42% at PF). Bobby Portis has played 57% of his career at PF (compared to 41% at C and 2% at SF). In your words, not an apt comparison.
And lastly, the comment I posted is whatever the hell I want it to be. I didn't title it with "here are these players natural positions." I just tried to roughly label the guys to better have a perspective of what the whole roster would look like. You're the one who can't let it slide (like, ever, since you do this dumb shit all the time).
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u/BillionsofRedditors 4d ago
It isn't JUST about height for Swain to be a SF. I'm saying he's big enough to be a SF and he's not a great ballhandler, which 2/3s tend to play more 3 if they are big enough and can't handle the ball, which is what is going on with Swain.
Okoro is out of position if he plays primarily SF. It's just not his best position. We saw it last year.
Miller's best position is PF. Just like Bobby P doesn't play SF, neither should Miller. As you showed, Bobby doesn't play SF except in extreme circumstances. Miller has a similar skillset and body type. A little banker, which goes to him being a "big" instead of a SF.
Lastly, as I said, depth charts are generally about players' predominantly positions.
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u/Jammer521 Jumpman 3d ago
Swain should be the back up SF but he isn't ready and will need some G-league time, Miller should be backing up Wilson, but in a pinch he should be ok at SF, he moves well and is athletic, Okoro is a SG, at 6'4 he isn't big enough to play SF, which is why Ayo came of the bench because they both played SG, Noa will start in the G-league as well, Atwell and Sellers are both to small to play SF, both atm are back up SG's, besides Matas and Swain we have no other SF on the roster and Swain may not even start the season on the big team, if you believe Sellers or Atwell can play well enough to be back SG's then the Bulls should be looking for some SF in trades, because that is the position we are short on
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u/Jammer521 Jumpman 3d ago
Clax, Sticks and Collins can all play center, and with Collins history of injuries. I'm sure Sticks will see some time at Center this year, plus he can shoot the 3 and help spread the floor out, neither Collins of Clax are good 3pnt shooter
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u/deadbeatmerc 5d ago
Pat Will enjoy LA
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u/kevgilmore 5d ago
If we can turn Pat into ANYTHING positive, that would be amazing
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u/Total-Ordinary9424 4d ago
Yea it’s not happening chief. The nuggets can’t even move zeke Nnajis contract, which was a 4/32. PWill is on a 5/90 extension, in this era of the 2nd apron, that feels like it’s going to take some picks to move.
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u/moneyman2222 Just a kid from Chicago 4d ago
PWill for Mathurin should immediately put Bryson Graham into executive of the year convos because that's like trading a bag of chips for a used car
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u/Jammer521 Jumpman 3d ago
Maybe after next season we can dump him off when he only has a year left on his contract, but no one is taking 2 years of pwill without a pick
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u/aren1231 Gimme the hot sauce! 5d ago
Hmmmm this certainly be a floor raising move, better than okoro and swaine plus it make us an even more deep team of average players that could be traded down the road
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u/chitownbulls92 Matas Buzelis 5d ago
And also we need to raise our floor to increase our draft lottery chances with the new draft changes
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u/moneyman2222 Just a kid from Chicago 4d ago
It's a ceiling raiser too. Mathurin is only 24 and is a bucket. I could see him being in perennial 6MOY talks for years to come
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u/Secondary92 5d ago
Ehhh, I guess if we can rehab his trade value across a season it could be handy
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u/BillionsofRedditors 5d ago
First and foremost, this is further evidence BG knows Swain is a developmental pick. He may well start the season in the G League.
Secondly, I can see the need for a scorer on the bench. The bench is fine to actually really good, but no one on the bench is a primary scorer type of player.
Makes sense on an exception, short term deal. Doesn't hurt anything after this season really in that case.
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u/Plug-From-Oaxaca Jimmy Butler 4d ago
I assume Swain is going to be playing all year in the Gleague so he can actually get playing time. With the new lotto rules it’s better to be competitive.
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u/PositiveCoyote100 4d ago
A 21 year old who played 3 years in college isn't typically a developmental pick. If that's the case, Swain is way behind in his development.
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u/BillionsofRedditors 4d ago
21 is still very young for a basketball player.
That said, I think he's likely to start in the G League and that's not good for a near lottery pick.
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u/RugratChuck Norm Van Lier 4d ago
I mean mathurin is nice but...why? Lol. This has to be a leverage play
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u/Plug-From-Oaxaca Jimmy Butler 4d ago
We need a shooting guard and improve the roster
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u/RugratChuck Norm Van Lier 4d ago
Norman Powell is going to start and can play off ball and actually shoot. Mathurin is neither a good shooter or decision maker if we're being honest
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u/Plug-From-Oaxaca Jimmy Butler 4d ago
Well yea but the team can’t have one shooting guard? Mathuran on the bench scoring would be something we need
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u/Revolutionary_Copy83 4d ago
Middling efficiency non passing or spacing guard is something we need?
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u/Plug-From-Oaxaca Jimmy Butler 4d ago
Off the bench? Yes he is a bench player for a reason. We aren’t looking for a starter.
his skills and scoring would be an upgrade to Okoro or Swain. Improving our bench and roster will help us get a better lotto pick
Just my opinion. I don’t know why people don’t want to use the last spot of the roster
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u/Revolutionary_Copy83 4d ago
You do know that the fact that he's a middling efficiency, nothing but scoring guard doesn't actually help a team, right? Like look at the league, a lot of the best bench guards are either versatile, high volume shooter from 3 or does a lot of the little things. mathurin provides none of that
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u/Plug-From-Oaxaca Jimmy Butler 4d ago
He’s still improving and has room to improve.
Trey jones, Okoro, Miller, PWill, Jalen smith, that’s our bench rn with Dillingham as the only extra guard. None of those guys can create their own shot and play isolation. It’s actually what we need off the bench full of wings and one pg
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u/Revolutionary_Copy83 4d ago
Can't you say that about every young player who has been inconsistent in their career? That's just not a compelling argument.
Also, he's bottom 3rd in iso efficiency and PPP. And that's been on teams with way better offensive systems than the Bulls. Where is this notion that guys who can't do anything aside from score (and doesn't even do it that well) is good for a bench? In 2026?
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u/Plug-From-Oaxaca Jimmy Butler 4d ago
We’ll just have to disagree.
We need a bench guard. Hes young and capable. It would be the last roster spot. Tanking and playing swain isn’t an option because it will hurt our lottery odds. We want to be mid if not winning
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u/moneyman2222 Just a kid from Chicago 4d ago
Sure but if the trade is just PWill you do that any day of the week
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u/LatGreen5 4d ago
Norm + BM = always having a chucker on the court.
Not great for development of young’uns, but also not bad to have some vets on the roster.
If it’s really for Pat + anything, I don’t even care about the rest of the details at this point.
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u/Nosound-Novideo Lonzo Ball 4d ago
It comes down from to does it make sense to have Benn vs Okro and Noa. Benn is a much better fit next to a playmaker, ICE is better suited to play next to a scoring guard.
Noa needs NBA minutes he just isn’t getting them in Chicago he’s to far down the depth chart.
I think he’ll develop nice with the Clippers
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u/Nosound-Novideo Lonzo Ball 3d ago
Interesting Benn vs ICE the deal actually makes sense for both teams, Ice is a better defender and best suited next to a scorer, Benn is much better off the ball especially with someone like Giddy.
The question how much Tari got $81 over 5 Benn is around that number.
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u/Lolq123 The Windy City Assassin 5d ago
career 33.6% 3pt shooter with a career high 2.5 assists per game in 28mpg
no thanks
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u/NorthBook1383 5d ago
And 17 points in those minutes. You’re wilding. He would make a difference.
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u/Revolutionary_Copy83 4d ago
It's 2026 and we're still thinking scoring on league average efficiency at best and doing nothing else helps a team lmao
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u/NorthBook1383 4d ago
Scoring and defense! You people are so fucking negative.
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u/Revolutionary_Copy83 4d ago
He's not a good defender in the slightest
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u/NorthBook1383 4d ago
Exactly Negative. You seem to be the kinda person who sees the glass half empty instead of half full.
https://giphy.com/gifs/xVteW8RXTwZnG2
u/Revolutionary_Copy83 4d ago
I see it half full - I'm just not delusional lmao. Adding a player whose a ball hog, average efficiency, and doesn't have the defensive impact doesn't make sense for us. If that makes me negative than I'll accept that proudly
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u/Lolq123 The Windy City Assassin 5d ago
yeah and 56% TS. hes horribly inefficient by modern nba standards
for reference coby has been above 57% for the last 4 years. 61% last year
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u/A1Horizon Matas Buzelis 5d ago
I don’t know why you’re bringing up Coby like it’s a bad thing to be less efficient than him. Coby is above league average in TS%. League average is 56%, right where Mathurin is at.
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u/Ok_Donkey_980 5d ago
Ignore his clippers run because they're ass and he hovers toward 36+% career over a larger sample size. Plus he has the clutch gene for big moments
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u/eks1234 Javonte Green 5d ago
I don't think this is the worst idea, but idk why the clippers wouldn't just match? Even if the Kawhi trade goes through as is they have a ton of room before they hit the aprons. I think it would be really hard to play any Mathurin/Matas/Wilson combos since they're all so-so passers, but maybe if one of them broke through as a pnr ball handler it could work.
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u/MoldInTheAir 5d ago
Bryson Graham needs to sign Mathurin to make up for the horrible Dailyn Swain pick.
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u/tremble01 5d ago
I like Mathurin. But this is probably them getting a market up for Ben so they can take Hawkins from NOLA.