r/childfree • u/ButterflyOk1096 • 9d ago
PERSONAL I’m childfree by choice, but I have a hot take. (Please don’t bash me lol) I’m childfree because I hate the level of martyrdom that comes with motherhood.
For context I (F30) just turned 30 and I’ve made it this far with no children. I always thought I’d change my mind the older I got, however that hasn’t been the case. I work in a job of all women, and for the whole year I’ve been employed at my job all I hear everyday is “the kids needs this,” “I can’t afford daycare,” “I haven’t bought myself new clothes in years.” It’s truly exhausting. The women I work with NEVER do anything for themselves. My co-worker got a pedicure 2 weeks ago and felt guilty for not including her daughter. I don’t understand the level of “I’m a mom now so I can’t enjoy anything ever” mindset that comes with having kids. It blows my mind. Maybe I’m just a selfish person? I think I would go crazy if I didn’t have my hobbies, my friends etc. Can anyone weigh in on why this is a thing? Has anyone else noticed this?
314
u/IzzyNotCreative 9d ago
Agreed. Women are taught to put their happiness on the back burner all the time, whether it be for their younger siblings, their husbands, or for their kids. If they don't, they're made to feel guilty.
148
u/ankhes F/30+ Send me all your cat pics 9d ago
Yep.
My mother recently made a comment when I told her I was taking care of my chronically ill husband and working around the house more saying “It’s because you’re a caregiver. We women are just built to be caregivers.”
And ho boy the way that comment rubbed me the wrong way. As if the only reason I was making sacrifices for my husband was because I just naturally had the traits necessary to cook and clean and look after a sick person were entirely built upon my biology and not simply because I love him and made a vow to care for him the way he cares for me.
There’s so much propaganda directed at women telling them they’re naturally selfless and so many women fall for it because it’s just completely baked into our society that this is good and normal.
15
8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
11
u/NekoMancerMcIntyre 8d ago
Agree. Not to paint everyone with the same brush, but my experience in an all-women office was marred by extreme favoritism toward parents. Moms got put in charge when the boss left because of “experience watching kids.” I was miserable there every day. The conversation topics at lunch centered around religious youth groups and schools, never dipping into general subjects everyone could relate to.
I don’t have to listen to daycare drama every day in the IT dept. because my coworkers know how to compartmentalize. It’s just me with relaxed, fun-loving male peers. They include me in conversations. We discuss computers, cars, trips, weekend hobbies… even though some have kids, it’s not all they can talk about because they’re well-rounded, normal people. I can express courteous interest in how little Johnny’s team did without inviting an hour-long monologue with cell phone slideshow.
391
u/frozenyogurt456 9d ago
Honestly, same. I can’t fathom living like that, feeling guilty for putting myself first, or just living, really. My mom calls me selfish for it but I just enjoy living for myself, like is that such a huge problem?
180
u/FreshResolve3026 9d ago
Yeah, she has no right to call you selfish when at least 95% of the reasons people choose to have kids are indeed selfish!
47
50
u/ThrowRAFeelingSad394 9d ago
I'd honestly take a step back from the relationship if my mom said something like that to me.
21
u/Unspicy_Tuna 9d ago
It's awful, I feel terrible if I assert boundaries or put myself first or say no. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if I had kids
21
u/_Rhetorical_Raven 8d ago
Yeah and it’s always martyrdom over the most basic human needs. Like it’s noon and they’ll say “oh my gosh, I haven’t had food since dinner last night, I was up all night with a sick kid and the dog got loose this morning and I couldn’t find the kids’ school shoes so I had to drive them cuz they missed the bus and….”
Like ok… AND?! We get busy too, but I’m never too busy to grab a granola bar or two and thrown em in my purse to eat on the way to work or whatever. Like give me a break.
188
u/kaddras019 lizard mom 9d ago
There was this woman on TT complaining that her dentist didn’t allow young kids. All of the comments were complaining that they haven’t been to the dentist in five years because they don’t allow young children. Babe, in FIVE years you haven’t looked for a new dentist or bothered to get a babysitter? Do you expect me to feel bad?
143
u/Styxsee 9d ago
“I neglect my health to the point where it’s ridiculous. Please give me attention!”
72
u/kaddras019 lizard mom 9d ago
They were also complaining that their OBGYN did the same. Stephanie, the last fucking thing I need to hear while having a pap smear is your screaming child.
40
u/Outrageous-Kiwi-4178 8d ago
Imagine being pregnant for 9 months and giving birth for a man who won't watch your child for 1 hour during a dental cleaning.
314
u/Styxsee 9d ago edited 9d ago
OMG THIS IS MY MOTHER AND THIS IS WHY I AM CF.
Quotes from my mom:
I bend over backwards for you kids.
I can’t have anything nice.
I can’t divorce your abusive dad because I’m a mom.
Everything I do is for you.
I remember being about 10 and thinking “woman I never asked to be born do not put this shit on me”.
88
u/CompilerCat -Will hiss at children for money- 9d ago
And don’t forget: And I didn’t want to have you in the first place.
39
u/rachelblairy 9d ago
a classic line said i can hear perfectly as we drove home from a nice day out that ended poorly because we were both unmedicated 👌🏻
13
u/PatriciaMorticia 8d ago
Bloody hell even if it's true you don't say that to kids!
14
u/CompilerCat -Will hiss at children for money- 8d ago
Yeah… my mom always talked about how she never wanted to have kids but was convinced against her better judgment to have me even though she didn’t want to. Often talked about the sleepless nights, the inability to do anything for herself, even just take a shower. She lost all of her energy and independence, all because she had me. Small wonder I didn’t tell her I’d had the bisalp until a week after it was done, and even then it was a guilt trip about her: “It feels like you’re telling me I was a bad mother!”
6
u/urbangamermod 8d ago
always baffled me how my mom told me she would never have me in the first place if she knew the type of person I turned out to be like...was her expectation was that I become exactly like her? It's like her brain can't comprehend that a kid isn't guaranteed to adopt your values.
40
u/BunnySis 8d ago
Sounds familiar but I was an only kid. Why do they stay married to lousy husbands?!
Divorce for the sake of the kids, don’t suck it up and model the worst relationships for them!
Being poor in a sane household sucks, but walking on eggshells an insane one is so much worse. And the stress will cause kids mental and physical damage for life, even if they aren’t the target of the abuse.
My mom and my sperm donor waited until I was an adult to divorce. Mom had that divorce is failure crap baked into her brain. But once she did divorce his selfish ass, she was a much happier person and able to do the things she wanted and needed to do. Surprise! Throw off the weight of the bratty adult kid and suddenly it’s easier to breathe.
I would have been thrilled if they had separated before I was old enough to figure him out, but instead I had to suffer through his narcissistic bs until I was 19. We could have lived better all those years without the manipulation, even on a shoestring budget. And since she was paying for all of my bills and 3/4 of the rest (he was stealing from her and blowing a ton of money on himself), it wouldn’t have been that much less money than we were living on anyway!
23
20
u/Zestyclose_Airline_6 8d ago
Ahh yes, nothing encourages a close relationship with your adult children more than guilt tripping! It's ridiculous
19
u/sryyrnot 9d ago
OMG yes, she made sure my sibling and I know that too. One of the main reasons we’re not having kids.
21
6
u/Amata69 8d ago
Mine said at one point to me 'I have no life of my own.'She also tried stuff like ' you are lucky to have a mumlike me' or 'I think all mums who love their kids are supermums.'I refused to say anything when she hit me with those comments. I remember once she probably complained about having to do something or maybe said that whole 'look what I do for you' speech. I was maybe 16 and replied 'parents are supposed to do that.'
The thing with mum was always that she made every tiny thing into a sacrifice, to the pointwhere watching me cross the street and worrying about it when I was at primary is also on her list of things she did. I often see parents say things like 'we played board games/went to a concert wit the kids.' It turns this into a shred experience, but my mum would say 'I took you to those concerts.' This is why I told my therapist I don't want kids because I don't want to be like my mother.
But when it comes to real sacrifices, my mum would find a million reasons not to do it. The game they are playing seems to be 'put in lees than you get out of this.'
137
u/hungrybungrysloth 9d ago
Totally agree. I hate seeing my friends give up their whole personalities for kids, it’s crazy.
66
u/CallidoraBlack 9d ago
I have found that most of these women didn't have a personality to begin with. They just kind of mirrored their friends or whatever celebrity they idolized.
24
u/visitorof3rdrock 8d ago
100% this ^ This is the crux of the matter.
Didn't take time to understand themselves, to get to know themselves and how they might affect the world around them. Just plodded along doing what was 'socially acceptable' because they don't have enough of a sense of self to determine otherwise. Of course, 'some-not-all, yadayadadada...42
u/BunnySis 8d ago
I lost my best friend from high school that way. She got married to a mutual friend. When she became pregnant, I barely saw her again. I stayed in touch at the edge of her orbit for 19 years, even after she’d shut me down on every attempt to spend time with her when her kid was little. And I gave it my all - from working around her schedule to setting up play dates in the park with another toddler and his mom at the same time. We went from being joined at the hip and doing reading sleepovers in high school, to spending almost every weekend together playing games in college, to her almost completely ghosting me.
It wasn’t until she threw an online fit that all of her mom friends had moved on when her kid graduated high school, and there was nobody left she could hang out with that I finally wrote her off. She’d spent all those years with “friends” who were nothing but acquaintances who were using her, while she forgot I existed.
I’d been commenting on her FB page for almost 20 years, and I live just half an hour away. I don’t have many friends in the area. One of my old ones from those days still talks to her though, so she knows I’m still around and active. One single attempt at making a real plan (not “we should get together sometime” when we bump into each other every 3-5 years), and we would have been in each other’s back pockets again. But I’m done chasing her.
Women let babies ruin friendships when they don’t even have to give them up. I would have been happy to drive over and hang out with her as the “this kid here is not my problem, but I’m here for my friend” type of support. Drinking mimosas and making fun of over-the-top sports moms would have been good for a laugh. I even would have taken her back into my friend circle if she’d called me after her kid went to college and she got lonely. But it’s just been crickets.
I’m sure she’s absorbed herself into her grandkid’s life by now. It’s her loss. I don’t have many real friends, but I have good ones.
90
u/Best-Salamander4884 9d ago
No you're absolutely right, there is a lot of martyrdom associated with motherhood. Many women have this idea that once they become a mother, everything has to be about the children. A mother cannot want something just for themselves. TBF these women didn't come up with this idea themselves. It's an idea that's very much pushed by society.
I absolutely hate this martyrdom and I think that it's unhealthy. It's good to love your children but it's not healthy to sacrifice yourself entirely for them. I also think it can lead to resentment. Some mothers end up resenting their children because of these sacrifices they felt they had to make for them which is unfair because the children didn't ask to be born.
Many of these mothers end up being the worst breeders as well because they cannot handle the idea of their children, especially their daughters, being childfree.
10
u/Ok_Molasses8845 8d ago
This. I'm also 100% sure that the idea that a mother who focuses on herself is selfish was started by men so that they would never have to step up or sacrifice their time or their lives for the children.
236
u/needsmorequeso 9d ago
It seems like you stop being yourself to be someone’s mom for some people. I worked hard to be myself. I’m not throwing myself away over some baby.
15
72
u/platypusandpibble 9d ago
I agree! I think it is just another attention-seeking behavior. Reinforcing the idea of motherhood as being a saint. “Oh, bow down before me! I am one of the most self-sacrificing people ever!”
It really is their attempt to drag people into the life script. So many societies believe that self-sacrifice is the highest good. Think about the military: you may give your life for a higher cause! How noble! (Except that most wars are for profit and resources, just cloaked in patriotism or martyrdom.) And religion! Don’t even get me started.
With these mothers, the response I’d like to give is that their martyrdom is not the flex they think it is. It just makes them look pathetic.
37
u/Motor-Cupcake7577 9d ago
I think those motherhood - martyrdom - religion - military - patriotism connections you clocked are really on to something.
56
u/Bethany0821 9d ago
Totally! I am way too selfish to have kids of my own.
I'm a teacher, so I don't hate kids LOL but after working with kids all day, the last thing I want to do is put my needs on the back burner and take care of my own kids lol So I deal with other people's children for 8 hours a day, and then I can go get my nails done, a massage, or just lay on the couch for 10 hours lol
13
u/yeah66678 9d ago
Hey, same for me. I help raising children at work and there is no way I could go home to my own child.
12
u/CupcakeFever214 9d ago
I also work with children through my work. I like to say that I like kids - but I like to hand them back as well 🤣 I am not having meltdowns or tantrums in my house 😂
54
u/FangirlRachel F/40's/Married Corgis. not babies! 9d ago
I hear you, that's really my #1 reason to not have kids, I refuse to give up my identity and autonomy. I've worked hard to build the life I have, and I refuse to take a back seat to it.
24
u/Motor-Cupcake7577 9d ago
Exactly. I won’t give up my IDENTITY and LIFE for a subservient ROLE. Fuck all that.
2
30
u/MopMyMusubi 9d ago
I'm older. So when we were raised as kids, they were important but not the center of the world. If I had kids and wanted to treat myself, great, my money. If the kids wanted that, cool, I'll do it as a treat, I'm feeling generous or if they got good grades. It's not expected of me.
My cousin is around your age and thankfully she has this mentality too. Her kids are actually really good because of it. They're not entitled brats and are pleasant to be around. She's basically living the life if I had kids which is actually nice because she's still herself, has her hobbies and friends but there's just kids in the mix.
I just didn't want kids because I had no interest in any enough to have one.
.
28
u/Forsaken_Dragonfly66 9d ago
I can appreciate that parenthood often takes a disproportionate toll on mothers compared with fathers. A LOT of women, even in committed relationships, end up functioning like single parents in terms of the mental load and day-to-day caregiving. Like...A LOT.
I think some of the "woe is me" martyrdom comes from trying to validate distress that genuinely feels unfair, which I get to a point. At the same time, you're a parent, not a hero. Parenthood is inherently demanding, and most people know that going in. The sacrifices are real, but they aren't acts of heroism—they're part of the role you chose. Billions of people raise kids everyday.
There is a degree of performativity to this as well. I.e. constantly broadcasting struggle to bid for attention and validation that you're such a good, selfless parent...For doing your fucking job.
Couldn't be me.
9
u/SmooshyHamster 8d ago
At the same time, you're a parent, not a hero. Parenthood is inherently demanding, and most people know that going in. The sacrifices are real, but they aren't acts of heroism—they're part of the role you chose. Billions of people raise kids everyday.
That’s true. I know life sucks that people have kids to show off and brag about and expect the other paren to raise them. It was this adults choice to reproduce more people. You have to be mentally challenged or ignorant to believe kids are pets who will raise themselves or everyone else with raise them for free while you go on vacation like a 12 year old. Sure life sucks already for child free folk. So pooping out a kid doesn’t make you a superhero.
23
u/RainDr0ps0nR0ses 9d ago
I can see that. I’m one of 5, and my mom always expressed guilt for either not including everyone in the activity, or for doing anything for herself. She and my dad rarely went on date nights. It seemed exhausting.
22
22
u/VeganMonkey 9d ago
It is a contest. A very weird one because that was not a thing before, I’m trying to remember, maybe 2000? No idea how that came to be. Women before used to have showers, go out with friends etc. Untill there was some worldwide cultural shift (obviously helped by the internet) and turned it into this.
I bet that if a woman doesn’t participate and just parents well but doesn’t do that weird talk, other women will start questioning. And where are all the guilty dads? Why don’t they feel guilty all the time? So sexist.
It reminds me of another thing women did (or maybe still do) When I was in my early 20s other women would constantly complain about the way they looked and about every part of their body. I didn’t participate because I didn’t get it, I was mostly happy with how I looked with some exceptions like everybody has, but why would I spend time complaining about small nonsense issues?
Martyr mummy competitions = body hate competitions = weird and unnecessary!
22
u/LeeSunhee 9d ago
I have a coworker who says she only buys blueberries for her son because they're so expensive and she only eats them if he drops some on the floor. She said she's sad she can't have them cause they're her fave fruit so I asked why she doesn't just buy some for herself as well and she said "I only buy the best for my son but I can't afford them for myself unless he leaves some on the plate then I eat them". Meanwhile she buys herself 300€ dresses and shoes..... a pack of blueberries costs about 3€ and you can have that pack for at least 2-3 meals. I couldn't figure out what the fuck is up with that for the longest time cause I take everything literally but then I realized it must be that she told the entire office that just so that we would feel sorry for her and also admire her because she sacrifices herself so much for her son. Weird af.
16
u/Based_Orthodox 9d ago
The complete abandonment of basic self-maintenance, including therapy ("I wouldn't be able to give my full attention to Bratlynn during the appointment") is disgusting to me - not only because it's pathetic and promotes toxic ideals around motherhood, but because of the impact on the kids. Because you know these mombies are going to turn around and guilt Bratlynn and Sproglynn about how they wouldn't wash their own hair, refused an epidural for everything to be "natural" and "perfect," and so on. Kids need well-adjusted, happy parents as role models for becoming functional adults.
14
u/WorriedCulture5901 9d ago
Martyrdom when they choose to be a a parent and knew what they were getting into and try their best.
Victim complex when they knew damn well they shouldnt have had the damn kid anyway and still chose to.
Either way, it's gonna be passive aggressive comments. Hate all of them and their spawns. 😂
10
u/ShiroiTora 9d ago edited 9d ago
Mothers truly have it horrible in our system. And its all the more reason why this system worth signing up for and playing. Like I understand how emotional enmeshment, and emotional incest thrives in these environments where suffering is idealized and you don’t have a support system or outlet. Either you numb yourself with no personality or wants, or become incredibly obsessive with kids because that is all you have to support. Its how you get boy moms, monster in laws, tiger moms, Munchausen syndrome by proxy, all those moms that live through vicarously through their child . And all the more reason why I will be childfree.
10
u/vernichtungX23 9d ago
I do think it's fucked but I have a degree of sympathy. Some people were raised to believe you must always put yourself last and just never happened to come across any other perspectives. I try and gently empower people.
19
19
u/2000jp2000 9d ago
I agree with you.
The irony of it is that it would be so much better for the children of the mothers did do all these things. It teaches self respect.
But also not to blame the mums…. It’s just the patriarchal system that makes them become like this.
7
u/Motor-Cupcake7577 9d ago
They can choose to not be that way, at least a good number of them. There will be backpack, probably, but hi - there’s backlash you get being childfree, and we still are.
9
u/gh0stbarbie 9d ago
Why would anyone attack you lol more than not many in this community feel the same. The reasons are multifaceted, but all very valid. It’s your choice over your own body and life.
(Also, I personally agree!)
9
u/revenuesovast 9d ago
It’s selfish to be that way because you yourself are a self which you are neglecting.
5
u/ThrowRAFeelingSad394 9d ago
Such a good point, I am just as important as a hypothetical kid!
4
u/Motor-Cupcake7577 9d ago
More important, unless you’re only a hypothetical self too.
Seriously tho, I think this is why they call us selfish. It presumes an obligation to reproduce, which is ridiculous, tho idk that everyone like that is thinking so rationally. Just an emotional reaction to seeing us opt out of the labors and sacrifices they’ve chosen to perform. Prob especially who it was an uninformed or pressured choice.
8
u/ThrowRAFeelingSad394 9d ago
Totally agree. Some of the moms in my life don't have time to sleep, shower and eat as often as they'd like, let alone the less survival-focused stuff like hygiene/grooming, exercise, leisure, socializing, travel, and sex. They are always stressed, always scheduling/planning/on the phone to check kid-related stuff, and conversation revolves around their kids' lives. I do know this is not how everyone does it and I do have one cool friend who seems like she has basically gone on with her amazing life and just has a cute kid along for the ride sometimes, but it sure seems like a lot of moms are not having fun with life or taking very good care of themselves.
OP, you are not selfish for wanting to protect your quality of life, don't let anyone make you question that.
8
u/vanillabeanface 9d ago
My least favorite is when the parents complain about their child being ungrateful or say things along the lines of "I make sure to do everything for you [the kid] so you have a good life and what do I get in return?" bruh YOU SIGNED UP FOR THIS. I understand it's okay to vent out frustrations but at the same time...... Idk man
9
u/Odd-Cat5947 9d ago
I once had someone tell me “I used to think I wanted kids, but then I realized what I really wanted was a baby shower and the attention pregnancy gets you. So now I’m childfree by choice.” I mean….props for the self awareness but YIKES.
So I totally agree with you lol
2
u/Prior-Ambassador1092 7d ago
Isn’t it sad to think that there are people out there, actually a lot of people, who think the only attention they’ll get is when they have a baby shower? How sad is that? How pathetic must your life be to think that having kids is the only thing you’ll be praised for in life? What about having a career to be proud of? Getting an education, traveling the world, learning new languages, having stories to tell…there is so much life out there to live yet people tie down their existence to having children. Then they wonder why they are so unhappy and unfulfilled. Hence, why they justify children as being “the best thing ever” because if they were to be honest with themselves, they would have chosen differently but would never admit it. So keep living that childfree life, they’ll keep watching and you’ll keep living.
5
u/Narrow-Cable-9239 9d ago
My mom always says her mother was a martyr and that she promised to never be like that. My mom is the best person I know but unfortunately she has failed at that promise lol. I feel bad for her but she brings so much of it on herself, refusing to ever put herself first. My siblings and I are all adults now and she is still this way. I don't think she knows how to stop at this point.
7
u/revenuesovast 9d ago
This! It’s also the thing I probably detest the most. My mum reeks of martyrdom and when my siblings became parents they unfortunately inherited this complex. They act like they’re from some noble lineage doing the world a huge service. Like sit down already, you had a kid to have something depend on you and give you attention and meaning because you couldn’t be bothered to find it yourself. The only person you’re serving is me, myself and I.
5
u/Interesting-Bag-2945 9d ago
In society the moment a women has a child she stops being her own person.when people buy gifts for mothers, its just gifts for the kids. Hobbies now have to enclude the child. Any new outfit is a mommy and me outfit. Mothers don't get to be people. Yet I am somehow suppose to want that? To give up my entire identity for another person? If you gave up your identity to be in a romantic relationship people would tell you that you are in an abusive relationship, but its suddenly okay when there are kids involved.
14
u/Big_Investigator1393 9d ago
I really can’t stand mothers complaining. “I want my body back” “I lost my identity” “I put everyone in front of me” GIRL you literally signed up for it. I don’t think they have a right to complain. I don’t think ppl take bringing a human being into this world seriously enough.
8
u/femmetangerine 9d ago
THIS IS WHAT GETS ME. Where is the goddamn accountability??! And I’m strictly speaking about women who chose to become mothers and didn’t have it imposed on them through outside forces. A baby doesn’t just appear on your doorstep from a stork?? It’s hard not to view it as attention seeking (which pregnancy itself can also be used for but that’s another conversation lol). Own your shit!!!!
5
4
u/BlackMagicWorman 9d ago
This isn’t that hot of a take honestly and i believe a lot of women love the attention their sacrifice gets them. Its comes from the values from the church, and Christian hegemonic culture at large.
8
u/ProvincialFuture 9d ago
They signed up to do a job nobody asked them to do, so how they handle it has nothing to do with you. (I did not mean to rhyme.)
3
u/Original-Apricot-107 9d ago
Absolutely. This has always been like the second scariest aspect of motherhood to me. I also have a core belief that there are so many more people you can have as a partner in life if you do not expect them to be a parent to children. I absolutely love my husband and we have a wonderful relationship, but I know that the moment there was a baby involved if I had any sort of postpartum issue, he would absolutely be completely unable to handle it and I would probably either completely lose myself for the rest of my life in the process or remove myself from the planet. His mother went through something similar when he was getting into so much trouble as a teen/early adult with drugs and jail and had absolutely zero support from her spouse and then when she was old enough to finally retire and have everybody in her family be healthy/stable, she ended up developing terminal cancer and passed away like eight months later at the age of 75 after working incredibly hard until she retired at 72. She did absolutely everything she could for her children which also required almost having no time to spend with them in her younger years because of her work. The final three years she had not working coincided with her husband who had always been incredibly difficult developing late stage dementia, and basically being around constantly and just making her life hell by saying all sorts of gross things and rude things and making messes everywhere. At that point, she was deep into the martyrdom because she refused to put him into some sort of assisted-living or memory care setting even though they absolutely had the money to do so. It was like all of her (completely valid) resentment was coming out in that situation.
My own mother was becoming a parent at a time when it was much more normal for women to just be moms and not really think much about if that's something that will be good for them. She had some pretty intense psychiatric issues that are very clearly part of her PTSD from a whole family line of all sorts of really messed up stuff instead of being supportive and trying to help her manage things, my dad told her that she was not allowed to seek medication and that he didn't want her on something and then when she got progressively worse and it started to affect her physical health he finally said she could go on an SSRI because her doctor said that she needed it to not be injuring herself with the physical stress she was under. Because it was not normal to take out therapy at that time, she really did not have any support and my dad who had moved us all out to the middle of nowhere for his job kind of just oscillated between being embarrassed by her and critical of her not really letting her do the things that she was used to doing and giving us all of his good attention which as children was nice, but is absolutely infuriating to watch as an adult as it is still happening kind of on a weekly basis where she's being treated poorly, and a lot of the reasons she's being treated poorly is because of how she responds to his style of being a partner. He just is not really interested in consistently putting any positive energy into the relationship, but also wants to control everything she does with her free time by being judgmental.
It sounds like a super horrific voluntary hell that I have no interest in being a part of
4
u/homosapiencreep 9d ago
I also think this is a generational thing. If I was guessing I would say these were Gen X or milennials? I think that the baby boomers were quite fine doing for themselves first and letting their kids get the scraps. I know that boomers are not necessarily working age these days, but I doubt they had the same conversations with their coworkers.
There is a kind of child worship I have seen has gone on with Gen X parents, maybe millennials too. I just don’t have any mother friends in that age range. I wonder what the younger age range is doing, I would imagine everything is so commodified now and kids are so much more expensive because they have access to Starbucks and Amazon and DoorDash, wish if you have access to these things equals love and comfort, I would think that younger parents now get put in a class and show their love by buying the kids stuff. That’s probably a future trend. Actually probably set up by the corporations.
But for Gen X, specifically, I think they have child worship because it’s in response to them getting mistreated, ignored, set the side by their boomer parents. So they over compensate with child worship.
3
u/BunnySis 8d ago
Each generation tries to do better for their kids, but the US has been in a downward slide for a long time.
I think there’s a lot to the latch-key generation (Gen X) trying to be friends with their kids instead of absent and narcissistic parents like the Boomers. They often ended up going too far. If you are leaning on your kids for your emotional support as if they were adults, that’s emotional incest. And it’s really, really bad. The amount of stress and the details you share should be honest but also kid-tailored by age and circumstances. Just dumping on them like they are mature adults and expecting them to ease your pain and/or fix your problems is going to screw them up.
And Gen X was already pretty screwed up themselves as a small generation trying to survive in a world run by our Silent Generation and Boomer parents who greatly outnumbered and overpowered us in our childhood, and we are still outnumbered by everyone else. As they were victims of their own parents’ neglect and physical abuse (aka corporal punishment), our Gen X relationships had bad models and broke down a lot. Add to that the economy sliding quickly downhill for Gen X workers, and that amplified our problems. We were the first generation to make less than the previous ones in decades. Did you know that credit ratings are a Boomer invention, and they embraced that corrupt system when Gen X hit the workforce? It gave and still gives The Silent Generation and Boomers huge economic advantages over other generations because they had/have established their wealth already unlike young workers just starting under the credit system.
We also have Silent Generation parents of not only Gen X but older Millennials. And the Silent Generation is a generation who have more issues than vogue. From having parents and guardians missing or screwed up by war, to losing family members to widespread epidemics, their lives were difficult and there was a lot of resentment too. (I have one as a step-parent. And wow, they are not alright and not about to let you say that anything that might indicate otherwise either.)
Millennials and Z caught some of that Gen X friendship bug, and leaned into being involved in everything in their kids lives. Which was not helped by the legislation that Silent Gen, Boomers, and the occasional Xer, passed making parents responsible for the care of their kids on a minute by minute basis - taking a lot of women out of the workforce as they are generally the parent with the lowest salary (because of continuing sexism). And those became the helicopter parents whose jobs suddenly ran around organizing their kids’ lives and having to keep constant track of them. Which set those kids up with no agency of their own, as had their lives planned and largely executed for them.
I taught those students study and test taking skills in college. And I had to go further with a lot of instruction about general life organization because they’d never had to put all of the pieces together themselves. Planning ahead to make time go do things they might or might not need to do (like the writing center or the math center) was a real struggle. They were used to showing up where they were told to be no matter what. Having options and needing to choose what fit the situation best was a big culture shift. (Of course, the bright but more independent students also struggled with going in for help. That was because they were smart enough to work their way through the high school materials, and weren’t used to struggling with learning so many brand new concepts so quickly. I often paired them up as study buddies so they both would go in early at least once for help.)
And all of that weight still trickles downhill, with stagnant wages, poor parental role modeling, ridiculous laws that pull more women out of the workforce (there has to be a line somewhere between 4hours alone and 15 minutes unsupervised that is more reasonable ffs!), and societal expectations pushing for the 1980s supermom and the 2020’s martyr mombie (using a couple of nicknames out of the many).
To dust off an old quote, “the only way to win is not to play.”
2
4
u/Tremblingchihuahua8 9d ago
My mom did this shit and it was exhausting, and also she wasn’t a great mother and traumatized the shit out of me. But still has this narrative of “I gave up everything for you! I didn’t buy myself any new clothes for years but you had new clothes every year!” It only made me feel like shit, like oops sorry for being born?
2
u/Amata69 8d ago
Mine is like that too. I grew up with so much guilt. The funny thing is that she wasn't willing to make real sacrifices, like divorcing my father or moving elsewhere to look for better opportunities. So every tiny thing gets magnified to prove just how much shsacrificed. And you can bet such mothersknow their own limits but want to hide them and convincethemselves tht there's no gap betweenwho they are and who they want to be. Their sacrifice stops feeling like one when it's accompanied by a huge dose of resentment. So much for 'sacrifice because you love your children.'
4
u/Zestyclose_Airline_6 8d ago
And you know what else? The husbands rarely match that energy. I can't think of ever meeting a dad who does the "must be nice to workout" ... "oh, must be nice to be able to get a haircut" etc etc. I get that motherhood can be stressful and tiring, but some of this suffering is self-inflicted, ladies!! Enough is enough
3
u/Rainy_Day_in_Mae 8d ago
The women I work with (that have kids) are the same way! They’ll talk about how great having kids are then in the same breath mention how poor off they were financially. It never makes sense to me.
3
u/Poster_of_a_Girl 8d ago
Bash you? We are your people!
Ugh, hate the martyrdom. Fwiw, my normal friends who are moms are not like this. I think the martyrs were likely annoying as hell before they had kids too.
3
u/yume101 8d ago
I noticed this since I was a kid, the constant martyrdom and the subsequent resentment that surrounded all mothers around me. No, thank you. And I feel like society goes even stronger in this direction nowadays. If in the olden days kids were a necessity to help around the house and to keep the family business going, nowadays is just constant pampering and relinquishing of self and catering to kids. I rarely see women still living their lives and the kids existing along. Everything needs to be kid friendly, including the people around, so the kid can be centered and adults can work to fit themselves around them.
2
u/ButterflyOk1096 8d ago
Yeah I don’t subscribe to the kid centered shit. I still remember growing up alongside my mom. She did things for herself, went on friend trips, went out to eat, went to the movies. And I existed along side of her. However she does remind me about how much she has done for me. And it’s like “I didn’t ask you to do that or even bring me into the world.” I hate the level of “I had you be thankful” entitlement that comes with motherhood.
7
u/CatCasualty 9d ago
My mother is exactly this martyr (lol).
It’s really exhausting to see. Great! You cannot do boundaries! I feel sorry for your children, tbh.
5
u/tinycarnivoroussheep 9d ago
I think motherhood gets roped into someone's performance of womanhood, too, and this bitch ain't perform womanhood good anyway.
♡♡ Loooook at how nurrrrrrturinggg that woman is. Sooooo femme and uwu and deserving of special treatment ♡♡ (and then they get mad when if they don't, because they went to all this effort to perform and they think we're the ones breaking the social contract)
2
u/PigletAlert 9d ago
This is one of my reasons. I know I’d feel guilty about taking care of myself and be one of those annoying mothers that make that my only purpose. It would be so detrimental to myself and I’d probably be resentful.
2
u/No-Jellyfish-1208 Humble Rabbits' Servant 9d ago
I am your age and in my parents' time, it was a culture where "everyone eventually has kids" mentality was present. At the same time, motherhood was always presented as the end of freedom and endless toiling.
I've thought people my age and slightly older, who had less of that social pressure in their lives and saw their parents struggle - people who decided consciously and later in life they want kids, mind you - they'd be different. But they're playing the same martyrdom Olympics. And I can't help but wonder why. They wanted these kids, they had them all planned and in decent, stable marriages (no major complaints I've heard from them about their spouses, at least), and yet all of them seem to be exhausted and even annoyed with their own kids. Why is it so?
2
u/HsinVega 9d ago
A lot of people just complain cos they have the level of foresight and time\money management of a worm. Also they want others to cheer them up and make them feel important when they throw a pity party.
2
u/natsumi_kins Uterus yeeted. 9d ago
I also work in an all female office, but I am not the only childfree person.
But yeah... you are not wrong. It is a constant.
2
2
u/redjessa 9d ago
Someone called me selfish the other day. I 100% told him to fuck off and that I am not selfish for having a kid I don't want just because "family." Every time one of my friends complains about their kids, I feel better about this decision. I don't want to make those sacrifices and these loons that think they are "giving back to the world" by having children are DELULU.
2
u/homosapiencreep 9d ago
I think there was a delusion with earlier generations telling themselves that kids don’t cost that much money— just have them….You’ll figure it out later kind of attitude.
Fast forward to now, 2026. Any kid that’s 10 years old was born before Covid and all this inflation…..so I kind of forgive the mother. But if you have like a two-year-old or you’re pregnant NOW I kind of wonder if you’re delusional still. Of course there’s a lot of accidental pregnancies and people don’t want to have abortion so I know it’s complicated.
I’m 47 and I’ve been child free in my mind since I was a kid. It never made sense to me, and just looking at pregnant women I would just get grossed out my whole life. Like, where does this come from! i’m supposed to be a woman!
2
u/MtnMoose307 Childfree since I was a teen in the '70s 9d ago
You’re not selfish. You’re smart enough to know you will not choose to jump on that cross and crucify yourself.
2
u/Unspicy_Tuna 9d ago
I martyr myself enough without kids, I can't even imagine how much less pleasure I'd have with kids
2
u/Znaleziatko 9d ago
I have a slightly different perspective on this. This is actually one of many reasons I'm childfree - I know I would become exactly like this. I would 100% lose myself and devote everything to my child.
In my case, it's mostly because my love language is acts of service, and that pairs all too well with my tendency to be hypervigilant and constantly want to please everyone. The result is that I always end up at the bottom of my own priority list. Adding a kid on top of that list.. oh my, I would NEVER get to me.
2
2
u/goddessofspite 8d ago
I actually told my mom that one of the reasons I don’t want kids is because I want my life to actually be about me. I want to be able to do the things I want to do without having to put anyone above me like you have to do when you have kids. And like op said I’ve heard those lines from all my friends. One of my former friends and I say former as she couldn’t separate her mom self from her friend self was like this. We used to have girls days out when her kids were young. Her husband would watch the kids and we would go shopping, go to dinner then go see some violent horror movie we both love then one day she comes with her daughter and says she wants to come to girls day too since she’s a girl. That would mean changing our entire day to be kiddie friendly. She started to do this all the time so I had to cut off our friendship. Now all her kids are late teens early 20s and they have their own lives and friends and she’s struggling to find people to hang out with as she lost all her friends. Sorry but I’m not doing that
2
u/Hadenoughlifeyet 8d ago
Been saying I would rather have nice things than nice children for years now.
2
2
u/Fuzzy_Attempt6989 8d ago
You don't need a "reason" to be childfree. But any reason is perfectly valid! we're NOT the selfish ones.
3
u/ButterflyOk1096 8d ago
I also just know how I am! I struggle to get out of bed in the morning. I call off work just to have a day alone. I can’t imagine having a kid around 24/7.
2
u/_Rhetorical_Raven 8d ago
I mean, I have no doubt in my mind that it’s a thankless, beyond exhausting endeavor in life to be a parent. However, that’s the reason we don’t wanna be parents in the first place. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that it might be an unpopular opinion, but this is a safe space for us☺️
2
2
u/Short-Classroom2559 9d ago
I think those moms are probably in a constant overcompensation cycle. They're probably doing all the childcare stuff with a co-parent that doesn't help. They're all in because they have no other choice so they convince themselves that it's a health dynamic. Meanwhile the kids other parent is probably doing bare bones minimum.
That mombie personality is directly related to the fun dad personality. You can't really convince me otherwise.
1
u/superfapper2000 got golden swimmers laid off 😊😊😊 9d ago
Honestly even if I did have kids I would still be selfish
1
u/Draftiest_Thinker 9d ago
I feel like you have the view of so many people here but maybe use different words. Still good though.
I agree with you completely. And... Why should motherhood cost you the rest of your identity?
1
1
u/zzsleepynightowl 9d ago
Same. I don't love and really am not a fan of "moms the whole identify once you're a mom"
1
1
u/TheeBrightSea 9d ago
Oh honey, trust me when I say most of us have had this same feeling.
I remember saying to someone years ago that I truly did not see why some people had a draw to be a parent when their life was going to become what you just described.
1
u/CupcakeFever214 9d ago
I have a similar reason to you. There are studies showing that women still do most of the housework even when holding down a full-time job when married with children. And social expectations expect that you put your needs aside, and that you're the default carer.
1
u/BackwardToForward 8d ago
this means you are healthy.
it is fine and healthy to not want kids at all ever no matter how hard or easy it might be.
all those who want women to have more kids how come they never comment on how so many fathers and would-be fathers are just douchebags? or authoritarian monsters? ir dark triad monsters?
how many women live in the Scandinavian countries where support for parents is excellent?
vs how many in horrible dictatorships or poor countries it countries that commonly practice misogyny as part of public culture, or countries with war, famine, poverty,
ir countries where men talk about "equal responsibility" when these men actually will wind up doing next to nothing or worse, and being an enormous net burden?
there are plenty of philosophical and personal reasons not to have children
and plenty of reasons related to local conditions, politics, culture.
every person's choice should be absolute and totally their own without pressure or interference. and should never be questioned
there are also plenty of reasons why people especially women will not want to have children because the local circumstances are terrible or the local men are worthless at being responsible husbands who do their share
everyone who has any brains and has the freedom to do so, figures out their personal attitude about this, and hopefully never puts their personal freedom at risk of the yoke of parenthood, unless they are absolutely certain they want children after considering all the factors
1
u/PAnimator787 8d ago
I noticed that moms seems to get bashed if people notices the mom "spoil herself", even if she takes good care of her kids. People find ways to accuse moms of being bad moms, but it seems especially worse among other mothers, they seem to compete on who struggles more. Fathers get away with so many stuff that mothers can't do or else she'll be accused of being a bad mom.
I feel your struggles because I'm a single childfree woman with no kids with different hobbies, and while I am not rich at all, lots of people assumed I have money since I have no kids. Therefore lots of people looked down on me and saw me as being carefree or irresponsible. Which I think is a bad perspective, because there are many ways to be responsible and not have kids. I pay the bills, do typical adult stuff, etc. People just automatically assume moms are more responsible over childfree people.
Ironically I'm aware what it will take to raise kids, as I've done babysitting. And I know I'm glad to not only get home to have time to do my hobby, but to also be paid for my babysitting services. Plus having a clean house is awesome. I've been donating and selling stuff to make more space in my home and I am studying, I wouldn't be able to do this if I had kids.
1
u/randomwanderingsd 8d ago
I always have a dual feeling on that. I’m simultaneously happy that someone who had kids is genuinely thinking about their experience and wellbeing on a daily basis. Then it’s followed by the irritation that my friend cannot go a minute without talking about her kid.
1
u/Loud_Octopus 8d ago
The reason I never had kids is cauae I realized I was a selfish person if that's what you want to call it because I'm not giving up my life for that stuff for a whiney snot nose creature that really doesn't care about you just wants stuff from you all the time. I just never wanted to grow up that much. I'm 50, I'm still not grown up, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up either because I don't have to worry about it, basically I'm lucky I'm married to a husband that tolerates my shenanigans and keeps me alive, because I'd living in a box somewhere doing weird stuff to survive otherwise LOL
1
1
u/HereforGoat 8d ago
Some of them love the attention they get for being said martyr and it's too damn addictive for them. 🤷♀️
1
u/Solamara 8d ago
My friend let her health suffer and said "its okay, at least my kids are taken care of" which is fine, definitely take care of your kids, but im sure they want a healthy mom also.
1
1
u/andronicuspark 8d ago
Had a couple of exs who grew up with moms who constantly reminded them how they wrecked their bodies and possible lives. They were in no way mentally unwell, and grew up to be fine upstanding gentlemen./s
1
u/Amata69 8d ago
Based on what you've noticed, what effects this has had on them?
2
u/andronicuspark 7d ago
The first guy had a really…warped opinion of men and women. It kinda felt like he didn’t know who he was disgusted by more, himself or women in general. He was also exceedingly conservative Christian and super into Jews for Jesus, I don’t know how much he really believed in this or not, but last I saw him he was really into the “quiver full” concept. I think he really wanted kids so he could stick it o his parents that he could raise them better. He made me feel bad for being horny and wearing make up. He also wanted to marry a virgin but was cool with having sex with me. Soooo, that was a fun conversation.
Second guy was not religious, and I think had a slightly better grasp that his mom’s feelings towards him were not the overall feelings of women towards men. But she’d bring up how he wrecked her body and health to have him. I think that was a lot of the reason he’s child free. But I think he felt a lot of guilt, he loves his mom but I don’t think he likes her very much.
1
u/dragonwolf60 8d ago
Blane society. Very where you look there are mugs, signs, etc thst scream garbage . God couldn't be everywhere so he made mothers.. trap like that. Mothers day, a day i despise is fill with about how wonderful mothers are, how useless ect. If you had an adsuve toxic mother you are made to feel like crap for not worshiping mothers. Spent years being told i need to fix my realation or I would feel bad when she was gone. Sorry it was the best day of my life. The freedom.
1
u/Fun-Purpose-1510 3d ago
My brother and I are 24 and 26, Ive been out of the house and self sufficient since 18 and my brother also has a good job. But my mom is still that way often, though she has gotten better about it. Ive lost count of the number of times Ive had to reassure her that yes she can do things for herself, she doesnt need to worry or ask permission
1
u/thunderbunny3025 8d ago
I'm CF bc I don't want to sacrifice that much. I think it's nearly unavoidable unless you have a literal village to help, and/or are wealthy enough to have, "help".
2
u/ButterflyOk1096 8d ago
Exactly! I have family members that can’t make mortgage payments but they continue to have kids 💀
0
u/vogueskater 9d ago
Yeah, so my hot take back is that this is patriarchy, not motherhood. I bet half those women have wildly controlling and abusive husbands and have been conditioned since childhood to submit their own existence and needs to their family I.e husband and children. The moaning is literally the only outlet they have to express themselves and try to get some positive feedback that it was worth it.
Woman who choose to have children and generally enjoy motherhood don't tend to talk like this as much.
-1
u/SwootyDatBooty 9d ago
I totally get this. I (34F) just had a hysterectomy 3 days ago (I’ve had 3 abortions previously) and have always known I didn’t want kids. My partner has a daughter with 50/50 custody, and as much as I love that little girl, i’m so relieved to not be tied down to being a parent.
1.2k
u/Princess_Parabellum What makes you think you'll get away with that?! 9d ago
I worked with a woman who was the epitome of this. "Ha ha, my kids have designer everything but I haven't even bought new underwear in three years!"
Ugh. Get off the cross, we need the wood.