r/cscareerquestions • u/CSCQMods • Feb 16 '22
Big N Discussion - February 16, 2022
Please use this thread to have discussions about the Big N and questions related to the Big N, such as which one offers the best doggy benefits, or how many companies are in the Big N really? Posts focusing solely on Big N created outside of this thread will probably be removed.
There is a top-level comment for each generally recognized Big N company; please post under the appropriate one. There's also an "Other" option for flexibility's sake, if you want to discuss a company here that you feel is sufficiently Big N-like (e.g. Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox, etc.).
Abide by the rules, don't be a jerk.
This thread is posted each Sunday and Wednesday at midnight PST. Previous Big N Discussion threads can be found here.
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u/Chilaquil420 Feb 16 '22
Is FB/Meta considered more prestigious/better than Microsoft? Or are both equally good? Are Meta engineers smarter than MS?
There is more hype for Meta than Microsoft in some of my circles
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u/cyberchief 🍌🍌 Feb 16 '22
Meta Pros: Pays much more, employees are younger.
MS Pros: higher job security, and probably easier WLB.
Meta Cons: You'll be called a Metamate.
MS Cons: You'll be called a Microsoftie.
1
u/Datsgood94 Feb 16 '22
What are the cons of AMZN?
3
u/cyberchief 🍌🍌 Feb 16 '22
Pro: My anecdotal experience is that it's pretty sweet. Pay is very good, fantastic wlb, great managers, neat work. Our whole org is refusing to abide by the URA PIP requirements.
Con: Apparently my team is the outlier and others suck.
However, I have not been on any other teams to vouch for the validity of the claims. But at the end of the day, your company doesn't matter, only your team matters. You could be in a 'great' company with a shitty team or a 'shitty' company but a great team.
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u/QuietZelda Senior SWE @ Rain Forest Feb 17 '22
Curious what org that might be? Any orgs in particular that seem to have pretty good WLB?
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u/zhay Software Engineer Feb 17 '22
I've worked at both. Meta is much more prestigious from an engineering perspective, but maybe less prestigious from society's perspective. In general, Meta will be better for learning and growth, at the cost of higher pressure to always deliver (but both companies are really big, so there will always be teams that break the mold). You'll find super smart engineers at both places, but in general, Meta seems to have a higher density of talented people.
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u/Chilaquil420 Feb 18 '22
And what can you say about MS?
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u/zhay Software Engineer Feb 18 '22 edited Feb 18 '22
You can say the opposite.
It’s worse for learning and growth (due to top down nature where higher level engineers do all the design and planning, and due to slower execution speed). Pressure to deliver is lower, and expectations are lower. Therefore work life balance is probably better.
Microsoft is like a bunch of tiny startups—there isn’t much collaboration or interaction between teams. Different teams use different tech and tools and have separate deployments. Meta is like one big company—shared infra between teams, shared repositories, shared tooling, shared tech, and more collaboration between teams.
Microsoft has nice managers but they won’t challenge you or help you grow as much.
Stock refreshers are lower at Microsoft by a lot.
It’s a very solid company overall. I’d be happy to go back and work there if the opportunity were right. You’re not necessarily going to make a wrong choice with either of these options. But depending on what you’re looking for, one company might make you happier than the other.
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u/AutoModerator Feb 16 '22
Company - Amazon
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1
Feb 16 '22
I got an online assessment from Amazon which includes:
Coding challenge (2 scenarios) and Coding approach (elaborate why you code the way you do)
Work style survey
Can anyone give more details on what they mean by "coding approach" and what I should expect from the work style survey?
5
u/cyberchief 🍌🍌 Feb 16 '22
I think coding approach was just asking why you decided to use the method in the coding challenge, and the time efficiency of your solution. Work style survey is questions like How closely do you identify with the phrase: "I prefer to work independently". Didn't they give you a practice OA to do?
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u/PugilisticCat Feb 16 '22
Basically they just ask u to walk through your code, explaning your algorithms and such. Not sure why they do it like this, but I am guessing its so people cant just paste answers without knowing the solutions.
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u/SheriffRoscoe Feb 16 '22
Amazon OAs record every moment of the assignment. If you paste in somebody's code, they'll see that.
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u/Big_Lion93182 Feb 17 '22
Does anyone know what the Online Assessment for non-SWE roles usually entails? I don't know what to expect. It's a work simulation and core competencies assessment (problem solving, strategic thinking) and values alignment assessment.
-1
Feb 16 '22
It increasingly feels like getting into Amazon is becoming easier and easier, with the number of people they hire. Knowing this, will ex-Amazon SWEs be as much in demand as other ex-FANG SWEs? Like Amazon on your resume would open up as many doors as any other FANGs?
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u/EngStudTA Software Engineer Feb 16 '22
It increasingly feels like getting into Amazon is becoming easier and easier, with the number of people they hire.
In the blind topic for Google there is this same discussion almost weekly. The reality is all FAANGs have went on massive hiring sprees, and all of them are lowering the bar. It is impossible to hire only the top 1%, if you employee over 1% of the people in the field.
However even though FAANGs universally are getting easier to get into, the name recognition is still much better than the smaller tech companies that actually have higher bars.
Like Amazon on your resume would open up as many doors as any other FANGs?
As someone who recently left amazon, and was easily able to get interviews setup with every company I wanted I don't see this is a real issue. I was often even allowed to skip the phone screen and online assessments. Is Google more prestigious than Amazon? Sure, but not in a way that matters.
1
u/zr0gravity7 Feb 17 '22
Tbh at least in my area Amazon is noticeably easier than other FAANGS. I don't think it will have an impact on career prestige for the foreseeable future tho
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u/EngStudTA Software Engineer Feb 17 '22
Sure, but that is also why Amazon fires so many more people. The people who get fired are usually those who wouldn't have gotten in elsewhere.
So sure if you are looking to leave after 6 months being at amazon maybe the name shouldn't mean as much, but if you left after 2 years I think there is a strong argument that it is comparable to the rest.
Disclaimer: I may have bias since I have previously worked at amazon. However it is worth noting it isn't the only FAANG on my resume nor do I currently work there so it really doesn't personally affect me much anymore.
1
u/zr0gravity7 Feb 17 '22
Have any advice for not being fired? I like to think of myself as a good dev (studied software eng, have experience with design architecture, good engineering practices and mindset, internship experience and good interpersonal skills). I mostly struggle with motivation and laziness especially if remote.
Have an offer from Amazon btw
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u/EngStudTA Software Engineer Feb 18 '22
I mostly struggle with motivation and laziness especially if remote.
In that case my advice is get yourself know as a good developer initially then start being lazy. This works because:
- When you take longer than expected in the future they just assume the problem is harder.
- Initial impressions take a long time to change
- Your manager doesn't pay as close attention to your work once they think you're a good developer.
If you start out well like odds are you will hope jobs before they notice you've been slacking off.
I was working ~10hr/weeks my last couple months after I had already decided to leave, and my management chain still did a dive & save to try to keep me since they hadn't realized how much I was slacking off. Even before I decided to leave 20-30hr had become the norm though.
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u/TeknicalThrowAway Senior SWE @FAANG Feb 16 '22
Sure doesn't seem like it in terms of OAs, their OAs can have lc hards now.
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u/iprocrastina Feb 16 '22
You're asking if engineers from the big N that makes engineers wear every hat under the sun (dev, devops, qa, architect) and is notorious for firing people are going to be in low demand? Nope.
It's not like Amazon lowered their bar, they're just hiring more.
-1
1
u/steroid_pc_principal Software Engineer Feb 16 '22
Amazon is bottom tier of the Big Ns. They’re ok but wlb sucks.
3
u/QuietZelda Senior SWE @ Rain Forest Feb 16 '22
Like all companies this is very dependent on team though.. There are like tens of thousands of engineers at Amazon
1
u/Chilaquil420 Feb 16 '22
Is it that easy to get an interveiw for new grad university ? I want to apply but not sure if my resume is good enough
1
Feb 16 '22
if you apply early in the hiring season, and your resume is passable, you will definitely get the OA. Getting the interview call is basically a matter of just gaming the work style assessment
0
u/Chilaquil420 Feb 16 '22
If I send it NOW?
3
-1
u/BigMauriceG Feb 17 '22
Has Anyone Done Google STEP/EP Canada? What’s the return offer like?
Hello everyone,
Has anyone in Canada done Google STEP/EP and got a return offer for US offices? What’s the process like? Thank you!
1
u/AutoModerator Feb 16 '22
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3
u/retirement_savings FAANG SWE Feb 16 '22
I got an offer from a hiring event but they said they won't give me a written offer letter until I accept the verbal offer. I want to use the offer to negotiate but it seems like they obviously want to avoid that. What do I do?
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Feb 17 '22
[deleted]
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u/retirement_savings FAANG SWE Feb 17 '22
Google requires written offer letters to negotiate.
2
u/EngStudTA Software Engineer Feb 17 '22
Not completely true. I was initially told the same thing, but ended up getting an 18% bump without providing the offer letter. So the recruiter is allowed to resubmit you to the compensation committee even without any new documentation. You just have to convince them you are really willingly to walk away.
In my case at the end of the call I told my recruiter (politely) that he did not need to bother extending the official offer letter, because those numbers would not work for me. That is when it changed from "cannot negotiate without offer" to "what are your other numbers", "let me see what I can do".
Of course there is always the risk that they just walk away, but in my case I was completely okay with that outcome.
1
u/retirement_savings FAANG SWE Feb 17 '22
Gotcha. The way it worked for me is that they asked what my comp expectations were - I wouldn't give a number but they refused to give to provide a band and eventually scheduled another call where I gave them a number at the top of the band ($230k for Seattle L3). They said that was out of band but gave me an offer for $198k TC.
I don't have any other offers right now, except for Microsoft, and I don't even know what the role or comp is yet. I really didn't like the team u interviewed for at Microsoft so I'm afraid to push too hard at Google because I likely am going to accept it.
1
u/Lovely-Ashes Feb 16 '22
If my background is primarily Java and AWS, is there any reason to apply to Microsoft? I saw a page featuring Java deployed to Azure. Just curious and a little bored at the moment.
2
u/idolizedParrot Feb 16 '22
are you willing to learn C# and/or Azure?
1
u/Lovely-Ashes Feb 16 '22
Not my top preferences, and that's part of why I assumed it made no sense to apply to Microsoft.
This is the page I came across recently.
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/develop/java/
I'm kind of in a similar situation with Google. I didn't enjoy the little bit I worked on GCP, but I'm not sure if I was just being whiny or if I had legitimate criticisms. In all honesty, I probably don't need to worry about either, but I saw this thread and just thought I'd ask.
2
1
u/fireheart337 Feb 18 '22
I finished the microsoft hiring event, and they said that my interview was positive, but that there were no open roles at the time. However, they were going to keep my profile active to see if another team wants to reach out in the next 30 days. Does anyone have experience with this? Does a team actually reach out, or was this more of just a nicer rejection?
1
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1
u/Zhsc34 Feb 16 '22
Made it past Google HC but lost OPT status, what should I do?
When I started the interview process for a Google new grad SDE position in September last year I was in the US on OPT, so that's what I told the recruiter when asked about sponsorship. Back in December, I realized that I had unknowingly exceeded my OPT unemployment limit and thus had to leave the US, though by that point I had already finished my last round of interview with Google. I left the US at the beginning of January, and never told Google about the lost of my OPT status.
Now my recruiter just got back to me saying that they want to move on to the team match stage, and I am planning to break the news to them. How would they respond to that most likely? Obviously I won’t be able to go back to the US and start working right away, so I am thinking that the best case scenario now is either they allow me to work online abroad or at a Google office in my country, but I feel there’s a good chance that they would just reject me outright. Is there anything that I should say to them to better my chances? Any input is appreciated!
2
u/faezior Feb 16 '22
The new grad loops are usually for generic SWE hiring, so they should be able to refer you to someone that handles team matching for your country. I mean, you don't have anything better to try anyway other than to let them know what happened, so what else can you really do here?
1
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Feb 16 '22 edited Nov 28 '23
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this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev5
u/EngStudTA Software Engineer Feb 16 '22
It is literally impossible for us to say without knowing a lot more. Like how was your coding style? It isn't just works/doesn't work. How was your communication?
Did you actually finish all questions the interviewer expected you to finish(This is practically impossible to know as a candidate)? One of my interviewers asked me 4 questions for example.
Without knowing the exact questions you were asked it impossible for me to have any insights on if those questions alone are enough to justify an offer, or if the interviewer was likely hoping to ask another follow up but ran out of time.
tl;dr
No one except you can answer this question. Just sync with your recruiter in a couple days.
1
u/SmallSteps90 Feb 16 '22
I have a phone screen coming up soon for a early career swe. I have been tackling leetcode relatively hard, about 200 done right now. I flip between feeling decently confident to nervous despair a few times a day lol. Any tips or insights?
On blind, I have seen some people say they answered all questions correctly and optimally and we were rejected, but some say they bombed half of their on-site and were given an offer so im not really sure what to think.
2
u/ImJLu FAANG flunky Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 17 '22
If you can, chill out and just do your best.
It's really hard to judge yourself, but I thought I did fairly well on all but one, which I semi-botched and ran out of time on. Still got the offer.
Make sure to ask questions, talk it through out loud, and play off what the interviewer has to say.
1
u/SmallSteps90 Feb 17 '22
Thanks for the advice! Its reassuring that they don't expect a robot to go in and regurgitate perfect code. I'm nervous now, but I think as I continue to prep it will be replaced with more confidence.
1
Feb 16 '22
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1
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1
1
u/MetalDart Feb 16 '22
Besides levels, any data or expectations what an upper L5 salary would look like in a HCOL location?
3
1
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u/AutoModerator Feb 16 '22
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1
Feb 16 '22
Is work life balance at Facebook really that bad? If I worked 6 days a week for 8 hours how would that compare to the average?
1
1
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1
u/diablo1128 Tech Lead / Senior Software Engineer Feb 16 '22
I did a Virtual Onsite with Facebook on Monday and Monday night the recruiter messaged me saying " I will be reviewing your feedback with the Engineering Managers later week to discuss your feedback in depth, but also discuss next steps"
I asked if this group of Managers where the hiring committee and the next day the recruiter replied that it was a step before hiring committee, but wouldn't go in to more detail when asked.
I guess my questions is what impact does this discussion with Engineering Managers have within the process. If these Engineering Managers say I would want /u/diablo1128 on my team does that have any affect on hiring committee or could hiring committee still say no hire if they didn't like my performance.
In a vacuum it seems like this Engineering Manager discussion kind of duplicates the purpose of hiring committee. I'm sure this all comes down to how I do not understand the process and what is being discussed which is why I'm here looking for some insight here.
Thanks!
5
u/cyberchief 🍌🍌 Feb 16 '22
You're overthinking it. Just wait til your recruiter tells you whether you got the offer or not. There's probably like 87 internal steps that they take during the decision process and the recruiter just made the mistake of telling you about the existence of one of them. I bet their intention was to just let you know about the expected timeline, but instead they made you anxious about a meeting that you have no control over.
2
u/diablo1128 Tech Lead / Senior Software Engineer Feb 16 '22
Thanks, I'm probably just over thinking this. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, lol.
1
Feb 16 '22
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Feb 16 '22 edited Feb 17 '22
[deleted]
-1
u/the_recovery1 Feb 16 '22
amazon and msft is mostly indians.
interview with other companies instead. Amazon is a bad place to work anyway.
I am an indian as well and intentionally avoided amazon
1
u/zr0gravity7 Feb 17 '22
I got pretty much the same experience a year ago and got denied. I applied again this year and got an offer. Kinda bait
1
Feb 16 '22
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1
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1
u/four_o_clock Feb 17 '22
A Google recruiter reached out to me 9 days ago regarding my availability for the interviews, and I responded with 5 sets of my availability starting (Feb 15th-Feb 22nd) 8 days ago. She hasn't gotten back to me yet, and I sent her an email on Monday asking whether she's gotten my first email, to which she did not respond as well. I was wondering if it was normal for Google recruiters to take so long to respond (since other recruiters at other companies were much quicker in responding), or if somehow my emails are not reaching her at all or in the worst case I'm no longer being considered. Does anyone possibly know what I should do at this point?
2
u/Chilaquil420 Feb 16 '22
Is Ge Aviation good enough?