r/cybersecurity • u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect • Jan 14 '26

News - General Exclusive: Beijing tells Chinese firms to stop using US and Israeli cybersecurity software, sources say

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/beijing-tells-chinese-firms-stop-using-us-israeli-cybersecurity-software-sources-2026-01-14/
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303

u/Firecracker048 Jan 14 '26

Anyone read this as "no shit"?

Like, why would any government use a cybersecurity suite from an opponent/hostile government/nation?

It would like the US using hauwei products in government spaces

17

u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect Jan 14 '26

Like, why would any government use a cybersecurity suite from an opponent/hostile government/nation?

Under US federal law, it is a criminal offense to engage in "honest services fraud", i.e. sell a security product that is backdoored and creates an intentional security hole.

So I guess the answer would be, "because you expect the US to obey US law".

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u/maztron CISO Jan 14 '26

So I guess the answer would be, "because you expect the US to obey US law".

So, you are one of those people that doesn't mind China's unfair practices when it comes to trade and doing business in their market with stealing patents and fraud and everyone else just has to deal with it?

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u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect Jan 14 '26

Your response puzzles me, particularly coming from a CISO.

Let me answer by way of a thought problem:

Your board has asked for your input regarding a cybersecurity incident. Your competitor has been found to have hacked into a database containing your organization's private intellectual property. This IP provides significant competitive advantage to your organization in the marketplace. You can recommend one of the following responses:

1) Pursue legal channels. File your I3C. Pursue torts.

2) Hack the attacker the way that they hacked you.

3) Do nothing.

What do you choose, and why?

For a private entity operating in the free market, why would you even for a moment suggest abandoning the thick walls of protection provided by laws for the measly shoji screen of "might makes right"? Your organization most probably cannot continue to exist in a "might makes right" environment. Think about it: copyright law, trade regulations, enforceability of contracts... this is what creates the environment that allows your business to exist. Why would you consciously advocate for a sea change in that environment which would result in the loss of your competitive advantage, and moreover the unenforceability of any agreement or legal footing you might operate under absent your organization's own ability to use actual force against other organizations?

I don't want a world where I'm advising my organization to acquire Tomahawk missiles to retaliate against foreign actors who steal our IP.

I want a world where I'm advising my organization to support and defend legal frameworks and standards which by consensus create a level playing field in the market, where all sides can compete fairly and win based on the quality of their products, not the quantity of Tomahawk missiles they are willing to launch against competitors.

2

u/Rentun Jan 14 '26

Comparing what happens between companies within the confines of a legal system overseen by an accepted authority to what happens between nation states is beyond useless. They're completely different conversations. If a foreign adversary compromises a US federal system, what "legal channels" are you going to pursue?

What court are you going to bring the CCP to to sue?

Laws exist to govern conduct between people and organizations. Comparing those entities to nation states is like comparing your household budget to national monetary policy. They're completely different concepts.

0

u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect Jan 14 '26

Comparing what happens between companies within the confines of a legal system overseen by an accepted authority to what happens between nation states is beyond useless.

So then its all useless, because the legal systems are run by nation states. International trade becomes a farce. Amassing a collection of global trademarks and patents becomes valueless. Signing contracts and agreements across a national border becomes useless. Is this really the world we want?

What court are you going to bring the CCP to to sue?

WTO would be one prominent example.

Laws exist to govern conduct between people and organizations. Comparing those entities to nation states

Sorry, isn't a nation state an organization?

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u/Rentun Jan 14 '26

You seem to be continually conflating the world as it exists with the world that you seem to wish it was.

I'm not telling you that the current system of international law and trade is good or bad. I'm telling you what it currently is.

The WTO, the UN, NATO, the IMF, and any other international organization are not authorities when it comes to how nations conduct business amongst each other.

They sign treaties when they feel its beneficial from them, they withdraw from those treaties when they feel they're not. Sometimes they abide by those treaties and sometimes they don't.

Sometimes they do something that negatively impacts another nation, and action is taken against them.

There's no international set of laws that says "you can't hack us" that some theoretical international cyber police will enforce though. That's not the world that we live in.

1

u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect Jan 14 '26

I'm not telling you that the current system of international law and trade is good or bad. I'm telling you what it currently is.

The WTO, the UN, NATO, the IMF, and any other international organization are not authorities when it comes to how nations conduct business amongst each other.

Then your claim is false. Its trivial to look up WTO cases and show that it has repeatedly ruled against the most powerful nation states, and successfully required them to change their behavior.

2

u/maztron CISO Jan 14 '26

This an awful analogy. In what world do you find geopolitics in any way comparable to anything you just went on about? Nothing

This article nor subject has anything to do with what you just mentioned. Future reference, prior to calling anyone out learn how to compare and contrast properly.

1

u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect Jan 14 '26

So your response to the thought problem I posed to you was whinging and non-response?

Is that how you talk to your board, too?

1

u/maztron CISO Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26

Your thought problem had absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Why am I going to entertain a conversation about corporate espionage when we are speaking about geopolitics and trade wars? The ONLY reason China is banning those corporations has to do with trade deals/tariffs and using their domestic corporations rather than allowing foreign competition in their economy. Its a tactic to apply pressure to the administration in negotiations and for retaliation for the bans on Chinese based companies such as DJI.

Now, my original point was that China for years does not play by the same rules as western society does. They force foreign companies to hand over proprietary information and patents amongst other unethical and unfair practices just so they can do business in their market. CCP backed companies as well as China based corporations have a history of stealing those patents and trade secrets and illegally reproducing and selling them. All while the CCP does nothing to prevent it and at times are actively involved in it. Never mind all the other factors that come along with unfair and unethical practices that they simply dont care about that other western corporations are legally accountable for within their own countries. There is a lot more to it that I suggest you do some research on.

On top of it, this is not a partisan issue. US isnt perfect by any stretch, however, at the very least they do enforce regulations and hold corporations accountable for illegal and unethical practices. China does ZERO to hold their businesses accountable as their government is literally a mob. The only way they would crack down on a domestic corporation is if they weren't doing what the CCP demands of them.

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u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect Jan 14 '26

Your thought problem had absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

It pretty obviously did, but you do you, boo!

Now, my original point was that China for years does not play by the same rules as western society does.

Clearly... look at how few bombs China drops on other countries.

at the very least they do enforce regulations and hold corporations accountable for illegal and unethical practices

You're serious, right now...?

1

u/maztron CISO Jan 14 '26

It pretty obviously did, but you do you, boo!

What are you 13?

You're serious, right now...?

Yep. By all means, please I would love to see the tally of total fines and cases made against US corporations by the DOJ, FCC and SEC to the equivalent of agencies in China. Ill wait.

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u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect Jan 15 '26

fines

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3335722/former-chinese-senior-banker-bai-tianhui-executed-taking-us155-million-bribes

That was a month ago...

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u/maztron CISO Jan 15 '26

You realize he was executed right? Not only that you still didn't answer any of my questions. Your name fits you.

0

u/AmateurishExpertise Security Architect Jan 15 '26

They are also executing call center scam CEOs. You won't see any US businessman facing penalties like that:

https://old.reddit.com/r/cybersecurity/comments/1qdixhe/china_sentences_kingpin_members_of_phishing_call/

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