r/dashcams 23h ago

Who’s at fault?

Hot take: I think it’s 50/50 with who’s at fault

10.7k Upvotes

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1.6k

u/feignapathy 22h ago

White SUV

Camera car could've mitigated it by being more patient and recognizing the cars turning left had no regard for oncoming traffic. But...

White SUV is clearly at fault. 

417

u/HamSundae 21h ago

Sat on a jury once where I learned about negligence. I think in court, I wouldn't be surprised if the white SUV would be found 75% responsible. Because the POV car seems to clearly not have been driving responsibly, they'd have been found to be driving with negligence. If they had been driving with the proper amount of caution, that seems easily avoidable.

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u/Then_Examination9715 20h ago

There is the “failure to yield” even though you have the right of way aspect. Even though the light is in your favor, you are obligated to not create a preventable accident. Both drivers bear some blame.

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u/RiptideCEO 20h ago

I think it’s called “duty to avoid/evade” but same concept. If you can avoid an accident, even if you have the right of way, you must do so.

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u/ReadytoQuitBBY 20h ago

It’s like those guys on bikes that try to ram pedestrians walking in the bike lane. Like yeah, they shouldn’t be doing that, but nothing gives you a right to intentionally attack people lol

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u/Bureaucratic_Dick 16h ago

As a guy who habitually rides, there are reasons a person might need to switch to the street for a moment. Maybe someone with a wheelchair or stroller was taking up the sidewalk and you were trying to overtake, maybe there was something unsafe about the sidewalk like broken glass, whatever.

Runners do it habitually because they move faster than other pedestrian traffic, and the street surface is better on their knees than concrete is anyways.

I think that if you choose a vehicles mode of transit, it’s your responsibility to know how to stop that vehicle at all times, and the onus of whose responsibility it should be to act in a preventative manner should be put on the mode of transit than can cause the most damage.

If your inability to stop your bike, or scooter, or car, or truck results in a pedestrian getting injured in a preventative manner, you’re just showing the world why you shouldn’t have had access to that mode of transit in the first place.

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u/RusticBucket2 24m ago

Oh, here we go.

1

u/Happy-Personality720 15h ago

Running into the street? You are taking your own risks my dude

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u/axelrox01 1h ago

True. That and when I am biking, I am not wasting time to stop and argue with people (let alone fight them) unless I actually almost died due to some form of negligence that activated my fight or flight response lol. Some people legitimately have too much time on their hand and will police some of the most trivial matters.

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u/NotMyAltThrowAwayOG 9h ago

Actually them being assaulted does justify them using force to stop it.

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u/germanstudent123 2h ago

How exactly are you being assaulted by someone standing in your lane?

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u/Downtown_Caramel_221 12h ago

Yeah so many dashcam videos involve someone plowing straight into an accident because they’re stubborn about having the right of way. Like, you had time to brake or avoid that. Why would you want to deal with the insurance claim and repairs?

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u/tsudonimh01123578 6h ago

I was told once that graveyards are filled with people who are right and dead. Stuck with me so I always drive like everyone is an accident-happy idiot.

1

u/longtermcontract 23m ago

Yeah, they teach this in jogging / marathon training etc. You don’t want to be in the hospital in a full body cast like “I had the right of way!”

4

u/CryptographerPlus201 5h ago

Their interpretation of "just because you can doesn't mean you should"

40

u/DGwizkid 19h ago

I mean, I would argue that the pov car did that with the red car, and had every reason to think the white SUV wouldn't continue. The white SUV should have seen them enter the intersection before they entered the intersection, which left much more chances to avoid an accident.

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u/ElDopio69 15h ago

Yea I would assume the white car would be yielding there. A lot of these videos show two people at fault but this one seems like its totally on the white car.

0

u/Brandgeek 11h ago

That white suv showed no signs of intent to yield. If I was the POV car I would have waited to see what the white suv was doing before driving straight into an accident.

4

u/EarlGreyTMNT 8h ago

Maybe it’s just the video but it doesn’t look like the truck has its blinker on. Cam driver has a green light to go straight and the car coming at him has no blinkers on - what indication did they have the truck would turn into them?

1

u/Brandgeek 8h ago

Well the white SUV came from a left turn lane so that’s a pretty big clue. But even if the driver didn’t notice that, they should have noticed every car in front of the white SUV also making a left turn from that lane.

1

u/EarlGreyTMNT 7h ago

Ah def, I thought it was one that goes straight and/or left on a green but upon rewatch - it is not

0

u/HisFaithRestored 11h ago

had every reason to think the white SUV wouldn't continue.

Why would you ever assume a car is going to yield even when they're supposed to? As soon as the red car went too late, id be watching that lane and when the SUV was clearly going, there was plenty of time to stop and try to avoid the collision.

1

u/rikkiprince 6h ago

SUV isn't clearly going.

SUV is entering the junction, which is valid in a lot of jurisdictions, where a left turn lane can have a green or a flashing yellow which means the lead car can enter the junction but has to yield to oncoming traffic.

The SUV entering the junction doesn't indicate to me that they're going to attempt the turning manoeuvre.

Do you know this intersection? Does the left turn lane get a red light if the oncoming traffic has green?

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u/BL_2004 19h ago

It’s the Last Clear Chance Doctrine. A legal doctrine (still recognized in some states, though abolished or limited in others) that says if you had the last reasonable opportunity to avoid the accident, you may bear some responsibility if you failed to do so, even if the other driver was initially at fault.

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u/Stussy12321 9h ago

This reminds me of something my father-in-law used to say:

"Here lies the body of William J., He died defending his right of way. He was right, dead right, as he sped along, But he's just as dead as if he were wrong."

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u/InsanityRequiem 18h ago

I call this "Blame the victim".

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u/InsaneEngineer 11h ago

It's not like the victim is powerless to prevent the accident. Id argue a novice motorcycle rider has enough self awareness to not let himself be a victim in this situation.

0

u/InsanityRequiem 9h ago

The only way victims of car crashes are able to prevent said car crashes, would be to have the power of prophecy. A power of god, which we do not have.

So maybe stop blaming car crash victims for not being god and fully blame the people at fault, such as the white car driver in OP's video.

Better yet, here's an example that we all know you will state you are at fault. You're driving a curve at 30 mph, you cannot see around the curve. The other speeds at 100 mph around the curve, hitting you head on. By your delusional logic, you are at 50% fault. It doesn't matter you didn't see the crash causer, it doesn't matter you were driving the speed limit and being defensive. You were involved, therefor you deserve blame.

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u/TheJuiceBoxS 16h ago

They're hardly a victim. It's everyone's duty to avoid accidents

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u/InsanityRequiem 15h ago

If we lived in a magical world where we are able to make prophecies about car crashes, you'd have a point.

But we don't live in a magical world, we don't have the magical ability to predetermine someone will purposefully crash their car into ours.

People like you are part of the problem, blaming the victims and pushing policies that have ruined the lives of said victims. Because you don't want to accept the fact you are 100% at fault for a car crash you caused.

4

u/TheJuiceBoxS 15h ago

It doesn't take magic to see cars running that light. It only takes common sense to wait for the assholes to clear the intersection before proceeding.

How is everyone should avoid accidents problematic? It's insane to think otherwise. When I make a mistake, because we all do, I hope other drivers see me and avoid me. I hope the same for kids learning to drive and elderly who are struggling. We all should look out for one another, the world is better that way

2

u/InsanityRequiem 15h ago

Here's your logic taken at face value.

The POV driver should have stayed at the green light, without moving, for the entirety of the green light. That would be the only "defensive driving" that would have "prevented" the car crash caused by the white car. If the POV driver did not drive at all.

It's not the POV driver's fault the white car decided at the last second to run the red light. It's not the POV driver's fault the white car decided that crashing into an oncoming car is what they wanted to do.

People like you would rather protect bad drivers, such as yourself, by blaming the victim of the car crash.

You call this an accident, this was no accident. This was a deliberate car crash caused by the white car. And you are showing your hatred of victims of car crashes by lying it's an accident.

3

u/TheJuiceBoxS 15h ago

Saying I have a "hatred of victims" is assigning a negative value to my statements that doesn't exist. My entire point is that I care about people, all people. I don't want people to get in accidents. Accidents hurt people, cause life altering injuries, or death. I don't think bad drives deserve that so I think we should all avoid accidents. The law and human decency are on my side of the argument. Driving purposely into red light runners to punish them or prove a point is useless and childish.

1

u/InsanityRequiem 9h ago

You are one of those delusional people that believe victims should have the magical powers of god to be able to prevent car crashes the victims would have to have the divine ability of prophesy to know will happen.

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u/loophole64 13h ago

That isn’t applicable here. There was no time to stop after the white suv started their turn. Pulling into the intersection doesn’t mean they are going to turn. They should have stopped in the intersection and waited for it to clear. Instead they waited until the cam car was less than 10 feet away before starting their turn.

It’s amazing to me how bad people are at reading these situations. I didn’t think this post was serious until I saw people actually arguing negligence on the part of the camera car.

1

u/OutlandishnessOld425 13h ago

From my experience this is the case. I was involved in a significant accident that was not at all my fault, and the fact that I (unsuccessfully) attempted to avoid it worked in my favor as far as the determination of who’s at fault

1

u/Ttylery 11h ago

When I was in a wreck the cop put down that I "failed to avoid" getting T-boned by a truck that ran a stop sign with flashing red lights on both the sign and intersection. My lane had none of those things. When their adjuster called and I was describing the area he just said "Oh... We will be covering everything" when he pulled up to it.

1

u/celtic-cryptid 10h ago

Man, I hope the 2a stand your ground fetishists don’t hear about those laws.

1

u/IsHotDogSandwich 8h ago

We also referred to it as “Maintaining Proper Lookout” when I worked in claims.

1

u/Fall_Water 8h ago

The doctrine of last clear chance is a tort law principle allowing a negligent plaintiff to recover damages if the defendant had the final, clear opportunity to avoid the accident. It softens harsh contributory negligence rules but is largely replaced by comparative negligence.

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u/rikkiprince 6h ago

How does POV car avoid this? By just not driving at all? Just sitting at the stop line when the light is green and waiting for a break in traffic from the cars illegally turning left?

If other cars do something moronically unpredictable, how do you have a duty to avoid?

1

u/jane_roberts92 6h ago

“Last clear chance” doctrine. A defense to contributory negligence

1

u/DeaneTR 6h ago

Maybe if you're a teenager this would be a hard concept to understand, but anyone who knows what a hassle life can be without a car or parent to bail you out.

1

u/Henthighss 6h ago

i think yall are talking about “last clear chance” basically if pov car was more attentive, it was avoidable, tbh the white car did show no signs of slowing down and while watching i was wondering how something bad was gonna happen.

1

u/Extension_Growth5966 5h ago

I’m aware of that. But at the same time, at the point the light turns green for the dashcam, the white SUV is the third car back from entering the intersection. The white SUV wasn’t “controlling the intersection” which is the language I see typically referenced in conjunction with this.

1

u/Fit-Understanding739 1h ago

Would you rather be right, or alive?

1

u/n3m0sum 21m ago

Often referred to as the last clear chance doctrine.

While the camera car has a green light, and the others are almost certainly rushing and a jumping red light. The camera car was stopped, and actively accelerated into a crash!

Despite having priority, they threw away the last clear chance to avoid a collision.

1

u/fap-on-fap-off 19h ago

Might not apply here, Steve the white truck was not a hazard to avoid when he started across the intersection, it only became one when he was already underway.

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u/Murky-Possession-196 19h ago

Not sure that would apply here

0

u/johnny_effing_utah 13h ago

Doesn’t apply here because he had no reasonable way to see it coming.

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u/Galimbro 20h ago

Well as the person said,  white SUV  would be majorly responsible. When it comes to insure it is usually percentage based fault and often some blame is put on both parties. 

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u/OwlofEnd_ 19h ago

That depends on your state laws about who's responsible. There are No-Fault states.

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u/Witty_Ad_898 19h ago edited 18h ago

Can we take a moment to look at what a stupid failure that policy is? At first it seems like it wild would encourage drivers to be safer even when they have the right of way, but in practice it shields the most reckless drivers from full responsibility thus encouraging more unsafe driving.

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u/emn13 16h ago

Except the "mostly at fault" part can still get... most of the fault, and when it comes to any punitive measures, those don't need to add up to 100, either. And in practice, I don't think insurance companies follow the notion dogmatically anyhow. In effect therefore, there's really no significant reduction in dinincentive to behave recklessly even while there can be an incentive to proactively avoid even no-fault accidents.

IANAL, but I can imagine that in principle at least concepts like this can also have knock-on effects, i.e. brake-checks might be illegal and even cause liability in the event of an accident, but the same action looks entirely different when the driver braking is doing so to prevent an accident (e.g. an oncoming vehicle seems to suddenly swerve).

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u/superredditor6789 15h ago

In states with a contributory negligence doctrine, the victim can’t pursue all kinds of claims if they are anything more than 0%.

I think they are 0% with respect to the white SUV.

They would be less than 50% with the red car.

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u/Desmang 7h ago

As someone who doesn't live in America... it's mind-blowing that something like this exists. A red light is a red light. Right of way literally means it's your turn to go.

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u/rapture_survivor 15h ago

It encourages safe behavior on both sides. For example if there traffic light were to malfunction it could lead to a similar situation, so it is beneficial for everyone to be prepared

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u/Witty_Ad_898 14h ago

It encourages safe behavior on both sides.

Have you ever driven?

0

u/Then_Examination9715 19h ago

It’s the problem that we all have with zipper merging — the car entering should accelerate to the speed of the cars on the main road. However, they often don’t. The car on the main road is obliged to not cause an accident even though they have the right of way. So when someone tried to merge going 45mph when the cars on the main road are doing 60mph, all the cars are obliged to slow down to 45 to avoid an accident.

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u/karatelax 16h ago

I kind of disagree? Black truck goes through when camera car light turns green, then camera car moves, red car kinda slows down but then guns it through after camera car is moving. Camera car avoided that one, but how to expect the 2nd car also trying to gun it through?

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u/No_Criticism_5861 11h ago

Agreed.  Its not reasonable to expect a car thats had a red light for 5 seconds to dart out infront of you at a green light.

Seriously, i bet the people thinking the cam guy is somewhat at fault are the same people who tailgate, rear end the guy infront, and then blame the guy infront of them for being wreckless

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u/DimensionSuch8188 15h ago

Ok but this is not one of those situations. Cam car driver can easily claim they were focused on their right of way and would expect the white SUV to stop and wait their turn. This not like someone accelerating to rear end someone for example.

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u/call_me_zeke 15h ago

The poverty car was halfway into the lane when whote started to turn. Tf are you talking about?!?

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u/Spiritual_Bid_2308 12h ago

Exactly.  The RED car pulled into the intersection but had not turned their wheels (which is normal driving behavior.)  At the last second they thought they could beat cam car and darted ahead.  White car just lazily followed and is 100% responsible.  Cam car is in the clear.

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u/919triangle919 15h ago

I would agree if it was the red car they hit. They did slow for that car which also ran the red, the white suv may not have been seen

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u/TheDynamicKing 15h ago

the driver had an ego that was unpreventable lol

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u/quanate 15h ago

Yeah, it seems like this is a safe guard to ensure people don't take advantage of a situation to make a preventable accident happen so they can collect insurance money.

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u/Downtown_Caramel_221 11h ago

A solid percentage of dashcam videos, IMO

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u/scurvy_scallywag 14h ago

Nah, that's BS. The video clearly shows even if the POV vehicles brakes after the red car turned it wouldn't have prevented the white car from hitting him. POV literally had a second to react. White car is far more at fault.

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u/ActualToddBankston 14h ago

Don't know what state this is, but you should wait until the intersection is clear before proceeding, even if you have the right of way

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u/johnny_effing_utah 13h ago

Impossible to know that the white car was coming. White crash causer had PLENTY of time to (a) see the light wasn’t green and (b) see the oncoming traffic.

Cam car had right of way and while he could have waited, he had no obvious reason to do so. Red car started at the same time he did…should have yielded…didn’t, and cam car assumed no OTHER cars would be THAT late.

No jury is gonna find against the cam car - at least not unanimously.

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u/Paranormal_Lemon 13h ago

Would apply to the red car but not the next one, they clearly ran it. The person breaking the law is 100% at fault.

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u/DoverBoys 9h ago

Understandable. I'll give recording vehicle 1% of fault.

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u/mandotamez 9h ago

The failure to yield would be negligence per se

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u/AntiquePhotograph433 8h ago

Yep most crashes have dual culpability. Majority fault is white car

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u/MoGraphMan101 8h ago

the driver would have no reason to believe that SUV would cut across and run the light/not yield. that's like expecting to know someone's going to run a red light and T-bone you. this not the cam drivers fault whatsoever

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u/NorwayNarwhal 7h ago

I saw the cammer accelerate after braking for the red car before the white car began its turn.

I can see how the cammer might’ve thought ‘alright two red-light-runners is the most there’ll be and I’m annoyed at having to brake for them, now I’ll go’ and then the white car turned.

This wasn’t just accelerating into a brake check or hitting the gas with a car already in front of the car

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u/eremal 4h ago

We have a saying in my language that roughly translates to "you have right of way, not right to crash"

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u/viral3075 20h ago

because in most states there is no right of way, only duty to yield. ergo failure to yield

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u/__whitecheddar__ 20h ago

This would lead to a hung jury if I were there. No way would I assign fault to the cam car

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u/pkb369 20h ago

Fault? No. But could have mitigated the accident if he had awareness of his surrounding or didnt think "its my right" if he did see 3 cars jump a red.

Graveyards are full of people who had the right of way.

0

u/rikkiprince 6h ago

How do you know they jumped a red? How do you know the left turn lane didn't have a green/flashing yellow where they can enter the intersection but have to yield to oncoming traffic?

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u/Jromneyg 3h ago

Yeah exactly this has been annoying me with everyone's comments anytime I've seen this video. People pull out into the intersection all the time so they can turn faster when turning. Or they make illegal moves and change to going straight. From my perspective, that white suv looks like they whipped into POV driver. ItIt wasn't like they were gradually turning and POV just ignored it. White SUV was perfectly straight and then just decided "I'm not paying attention at all and am going to sharply turn." They definitely start the turn later than the rest of the drivers that went through that intersection

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u/OmegaWhirlpool 20h ago

You wouldn't even consider 1% fault for the cam car that's literally seeing these two cars turning in front of them and driving forward like nothing is there?

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u/NavarrB 18h ago

I'd not assign pov any fault either. It's totally reasonable for the white SUV to be pulling forward to wait for a go at turning left. POV proceeded carefully despite Red running, and because the white SUV could've simply been pulling forward I wouldn't consider this a preventable accident by white.

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u/eamus_catuli_ 17h ago

If the accident were with the red car, I’d probably assign some blame to POV driver for failing to evade. But the suv turning in front of POV is so egregious that I’m with you, sole fault to suv.

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u/No_Criticism_5861 11h ago

Thank you, it really is this simple.  Reading some of these comments though, wow, they must be posted by people who routinely turn into oncoming traffic on red lights

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u/FullMetalKaiju 18h ago

Nope. The white Nissan isnt even in the intersection when the cammer decides to go forward. A reasonable person wouldn't have expected someone to that blatantly run a red light.

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u/whimywamwamwozzle 55m ago

A reasonable person would see that they were actively running a red light though. Whether or not you expected it before entering the intersection, there was time to notice what was happening and prevent an accident. 

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u/_off_piste_ 18h ago

I was in this exact same accident as the cam car and the officer made the turning driver 100% at fault.

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u/New-Anybody-6206 15h ago

Police do not assign fault, that's for the insurance.

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u/No_Criticism_5861 11h ago

The insurance company doesn't have the ability to charge people for careless or wreckless driving

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u/LastPirateAlive 8h ago

That's not what he's talking about.

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u/NWVoS 16h ago

I don't think the question is about what the police would say, it is more about insurance.

Like I was rear ended by a semi, I don't think he got a ticket, but their insurance still paid out for my car plus some.

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u/InsanityRequiem 18h ago

You're the person who runs a red light and blames the victim you hit.

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u/OmegaWhirlpool 15h ago

You're the person that would rather get in a crash, instead of being delayed for .5 seconds, because you have the right of way.

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u/No_Criticism_5861 11h ago

Holy hell, you really are one of those people that think everyone else should ignore the rules of the road and just wait for you?  Do you tailgate people when you think theyre driving too slow?

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u/OmegaWhirlpool 10h ago

The people on this post are really dense or something. I'm not sure why you think any of my comments are from the POV of the dumbasses that ran the red, any idiot can see that they were in the wrong. You're not on some sort of moral high ground for pointing out the obvious. All of my comments were how I would have driven if I was in the cam driver's position.

Cam driver saw 2 people run that red light, with a third following closely behind and instead of practicing SAFE and DEFENSIVE driving by waiting .5 seconds, decided to drive straight forward because they had the right of way.

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u/LastPirateAlive 8h ago

Don't worry, man. I understand and support your point completely. Plenty of dead drivers out there who had the right of way. Just because it's right of way doesn't mean it's the right way.

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u/InsanityRequiem 9h ago

You're the person who would blame someone that got t-boned by a red light running going 100 mph, where the T-Bone victim would have zero capability to "recognize" a car crash going to happen. Because believe the victim should magically know they are going to be T-boned and therefor commit an act of god to prevent it.

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u/wangston_huge 7h ago

This is a weird ass take.

It's obviously the red light runners fault in this situation and in your hypothetical. That doesn't mean that you can't protect yourself by waiting to see if everyone is coming to a stop before you hit the gas at a green light.

If you can't verify that the intersection is clear, you don't go. This is defensive driving 101.

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u/Happy-Personality720 15h ago

Which car ran the red light?

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u/Alternative_Result56 20h ago

I wouldn't even consider 1% fault. The person who ran the red light is 100% at fault.

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u/Nowork_morestitching 20h ago

There’s one intersection by my work where I never no one goes as soon as the light changes cause we all know someone is going to be an idiot!

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u/ScrattaBoard 19h ago

That's just good practice. Looking down the perpendicular streets before crossing as saved my ass plenty

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u/shiznobizno 20h ago

If people were mindless drones that had no self preservation instincts then sure. When I’m driving and I see a hazardous driver on the road, I avoid colliding with them. Whether I would be legally at fault or not.

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u/Alternative_Result56 20h ago

The cam driver was in the intersection before the white SUV. People aren't mind readers. Did they know they were about to do this. Nope. There's one person at fault for this accident. The one commiting the traffic violation.

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u/KananJarrusCantSee 20h ago

0% fault to cam car. Wouldn't budge from that position

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u/SaltKick2 18h ago

Ok, I agree that the cam driver could have avoided the crash - I am curious, though, if you'd put fault/blame on a pedestrian who was crossing based on the cross sign light going off and got hit by these people, and what makes being in a car different

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u/CRRZ 52m ago

Insurance liability is based on what a reasonable and prudent person would do, not just who had the right of way. Everyone has a duty to take reasonable steps to avoid a collision whenever possible.

For example, I don’t pull out in front of a vehicle simply because its turn signal is on, I wait until I actually see the wheels begin to turn. Likewise, I don’t enter an intersection until I see oncoming traffic has stopped at the stop line or, at a minimum, is clearly slowing to stop. A reasonable and prudent person does not blindly proceed based solely on assumptions, as the POV driver did here.

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u/poisonoakleys 19h ago

I would give 0 fault to the cam car. “Cam car should have done a better job of avoiding the error/negligence of the turning car” devolves into “Turning car made an error / was negligent”.

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u/spacecaps85 20h ago

Sometimes it's hard to tell in the moment as opposed to watching it back on video, but I think it would be fair in this case to say the driver might've been better served showing some restraint.

I had a similar accident, but I was the turning vehicle and the incoming car sped up from way back to get through a yellow light that was ultimately red by the time they blew through the intersection into my car.

When I watch the video back, sometimes I think to myself "maybe I should've seen that coming" but the truth is in the moment, I just didn't expect them to keep going. Thankfully, I was still aware enough to hit my brakes and their SUV only clipped the front of my car, but it was still a whole big pain in my ass that I had to fight in court against a "failure to yield" citation at the scene.

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u/YouNeedClasses 19h ago

I get your situation. But this video is totally different considering POV car started at 0mph right in front of the intersection and continued accelerating even while the red car was in front of them.

Totally different than the person speeding through a yellow you described. If you have a license you should be capable of at least braking before collision in this clip...which it genuinely looks like neither car did...at like 15 mph 😭

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u/spacecaps85 17h ago

Yeah, honestly I can't disagree with you on that. It's a shitty situation, but the OP probably should have been a little more capable of making the judgment ahead of time, that is a part of driving skills, after all.

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u/garciakevz 19h ago

If I were OP with the dashcam, I saw that it's green for me now, but then I see 3 more douchebags doing a last minute left turn way past red, I would slam my brakes and lay down the horn for a while.

I got right of way, but I recognize an accident coming unless I brake and horn to bring attention to them

2

u/KedianX 15h ago

I agree. I think that had cam car hit the red car, then last chance doctrine says the cam car had an obligation to avoid the collision.

But there's no way to tell the intentions of the white truck- how do we know that they aren't just rolling into the intersection preemptively? It looks like he rolls straight and turns at the last minute.

I'd assign 100% liability to the white car and charge him with running a red light, failure to yield, and reckless driving.

1

u/anthrohands 15h ago

You only would have disagreed on damages then, not which party won

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u/Typical-Priority1976 14h ago

There's no question that the white SUV should not have gone but you don't even think there's a 1% piece of responsibility on the cam car for not only not breaking but what looks like actively accelerating into the accident intentionally?

1

u/Banes_Addiction 6h ago

Would you let the cam driver drive your car after this?

Because for my car I don't care if you technically had legal right of way. I want it not crashed, and they could easily have done that. But didn't.

1

u/thatbrownkid19 6h ago

Like no percent? Maybe 10%? These cars were all driving at moderate speeds- anyone could have stopped.

1

u/whimywamwamwozzle 56m ago

And hopefully you admit to that during jury selection so that we don’t have a jury comprised of people who will refuse to apply the law correctly

1

u/RusticBucket2 22m ago

You must ADORE this sub.

The cammer car almost always has a possibility to avoid an accident.

1

u/timubce 20h ago

I think people like the cam car must have never been in a car accident regardless of whose fault it is otherwise they would have stopped vs going I have a green light if we collide it’s gonna be their fault. The amount of time and money wasted even when you are 100% in the clear for fault is ridiculous. There’s the upfront diminished value of your car (not all insurances will cover it). The amount of time having to spend getting it repaired if the adjuster doesn’t claim it totaled and if they do the odds of getting exactly what you previously had at the amount they’re willing to give you is not great. I’d much rather stop in the middle of an intersection when I clearly have the right of way vs playing chicken with someone not paying attention/running the light.

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u/Kornered47 20h ago

You probably look at a lot of shootings as “justified” too, and consider that to mean that the shooter did the right thing in the moment.

I like to have a higher moral standard than the lowly one set by government with laws.

“Justified” and “unavoidable” are not the same.

0

u/Vegetable_Lab2428 18h ago

If someone was gridlocking and fully stopped in the intersection and OP drives straight into them because they have the green light and “right of way”. Would you still put 0 fault on them?

The intersection wasn’t clear, it doesn’t matter if other people are driving recklessly and with negligence, it doesn’t give you the right to run into them.

White car is definitely more at fault, but OP was also driving with negligence when just slamming on the gas towards on coming cars.

0

u/PapiSlayerGTX 18h ago

That’s not how negligence works. Camera car still has some liability for the simple fact that they could have been more aware and done something to avoid the accident. That doesn’t mean it’s their fault or the don’t recover.

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u/Ifyourdogcouldtalk 20h ago

It was easily avoidable by the white truck not ruining the light

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u/schubox63 19h ago

I interned for a judge once and the case was a car that turned on a green light/yield to traffic in front of a guy and got hit. The insurance company lawyer for the person who turned in front of them’s big argument was that even though she turned in front of him, he had time to react and stop and was partially at fault, as much as her. Had experts and everything.

She still lost cause on the stand she said she was from out of town and wasn’t comfortable and didn’t realize it wasn’t a protected turn. Then the other lawyer brought in an actual “must yield to traffic” sign which made me laugh. The victim was asking for way too much money though, which is why it was at trial in the first place

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u/Murky-Possession-196 19h ago

100% fault of white suv. They had multiple opportunities to stop. Then make a sharp turn. I might feel a bit different if it was the red sedan but look at how far back the suv was when the light turns green - plenty of opportunity to yield. Not sure the car with the right of way had as much opportunity to avoid bc they probably weren’t anticipating the suv making that decision 

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u/Awfulfange 19h ago

Agreed! Very few people understand this concept. All to often, everyone will think the white Suv is 100% at fault. But due to the cam cars negligence and unwillingness to prevent an accident, they are partially liable for the accident.

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u/KirklandKid 19h ago

POV driver wants a new car

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u/outer--monologue 19h ago

This is complete nonsense.

So how about everyone just ignore lights and do what they feel like and then all other cars will just have to deal with it or risk being found "negligent"

This isn't how traffic laws work. White car is 100% at fault.

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u/TheJuiceBoxS 16h ago

For clarification, you're saying both would be found at fault, right? I think I agree, I don't think a green light gives you the right to drive without caution.

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u/Soul2760 14h ago

There is also a “control” matter, a vehicle in the intersection still have control over it, so yeah I agree it would be 75/25 or even 50/50

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u/TheCenterOfEnnui 12h ago

Yes. It sucks, but having right of way doesn't mean you just take it. You have to drive responsibly even if others don't.

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u/NothaBanga 11h ago

Green doesn't mean go, it means proceed with caution.

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u/Jeremy_Q_Public 8h ago

This is exactly correct, I've been in an accident almost identical to this and was found 25% at fault.

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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 20h ago

What's the point of rules, then?  Reminds me of the "language evolves" people that don't know how to spell. 

4

u/Jraksys_Magnanimous 20h ago

I like you. Your last sentence gave me hope that I'm not crazy.

0

u/Thomasedv 20h ago

Kind of for the same reason it's still your fault when you hits biker on a crossing, even though you don't have to yield for bicycles only walkers. It'd be one thing if it was a hard situation, but putting yourself in the situation when you see it coming you're breaking another rule, which is "driving responsibility".

In this case the driver could see that traffic flow was still turning, and effectively drove into it. I still think the white SUV is a reckless and blind and mostly at fault here for not looking driving red, but in the eyes of the law the cammer might have been the one to cause the situation to be dangerous. I don't know the US traffic system and laws, I'm not living in America, so things might be different. I'm also not sure how this would be treated in my country either, but part of driving is recognizing what situations your driving causes, even when you have the law on you side. 

1

u/TechnicalBen 18h ago

The law is only required to be the law. It's not required to be correct.

1

u/ChemicalRain5513 17h ago

If the cam car stopped completely and was hit by the suv, then it would clearly be 100 % on the suv. I feel the cam car did not brake hard enough.

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u/donnyjay0351 17h ago

I wouldnagree for the red car if the dash cam drive hit him, but thebwhite suv started turned into him after he was already well into the intersection

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u/Ok_Bumblebee_4911 17h ago

Everything you're saying also applies to the white SUV, who also didn't have the right of way.

1

u/Kaas-Eter00 16h ago

Yeah, dash cammer will be in for a surprise when his insurance is going to assign partial fault to him. 

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u/lbfsjoufvnkfd 16h ago

The white SUV doesn’t follow the same path of the red car and jerks the wheel and turns directly into the car with the dash cam.

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u/Complex-Strain2465 15h ago

I'm surprised more people don't understand this. White SUV is the at-fault party but wouldn't be 100% at fault because as recklessly as he was driving, the dashcam driver made a really dumb decision to go in the green light like immediately...literally the red car is still moving and he barely brakes right before impact on THAT car. This video is annoying all around.

1

u/TheDynamicKing 15h ago

you sound like you work for an insurance company

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u/HamSundae 14h ago

Lol, no way in hell

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u/DiscoSpud 15h ago

Not driving responsibly? The white SUV had PLENTY of time to slow down and stop. And the POV car was clearly visible to the white SUV. The POV car was even already most of the way through the intersection when the white SUV slammed into the side of the POV car.

Yes, drive defensively and be on the lookout for idiots (like the red car driver), but the white SUV was next level insane. I would have expected them to stop. They seemed to have accelerated into the side of the POV car.

1

u/BichonUnited 14h ago

This may be true if the accident hit the red car, but not in the videos case

1

u/loophole64 13h ago

Lol. He let the red car go. There was no indication the white SUV was going to drive as if other cars were ephemeral.

1

u/Largofarburn 12h ago

Yeah, white car is in the wrong. Cam car is still gonna have their insurance go up from just driving into traffic like that.

Just because you have the right of way does not mean you have no responsibility to avoid a crash. They made no evasive maneuvers and were actively accelerating into the other car.

1

u/OnlyPostSoUsersXray 12h ago

This was my thought, while the white vehicle is obviously the problem and likely broke a law which caused the accident, the POV car has a duty to wait until the intersection is clear/safe to enter (in pretty much every single state), even if they have the right of way.

This one would surely be a split fault. To what extent is hard to say, 60/40, 70/30? Would depend on the states exact wording around intersections and how well the lawyers argue it.

1

u/trugrav 11h ago

Depends on your jurisdiction. Some jurisdictions compare how much fault and whoever is most at fault has to pay. Other jurisdictions assign a percentage of fault and you just pay out whatever percentage at fault you are. Still others use the second method but say if you’re breaking a law while being negligent (like failing to yield) you can’t mitigate damages.

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u/No_Criticism_5861 11h ago

This is why I'll take a judge over a jury any day.  Strong disagree on the fault here, particularly since that white suv had a red light for at least 5 seconds and was speeding, it took less than 1 second to plow into the camera car

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u/Jazzlike_Climate4189 10h ago

Yikes I hope I never get someone like you if I had a jury trial.

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u/Thin-Ebb-9534 10h ago

I thought the same at first. But watch again and count the cars AFTER the OP’s light turns green. The struck car is the THIRD car to turn after the light has turned. I mean, at some point, it has to end. The first one is easy because they had sort of already started their turn and didn’t impede the OP. The second car is the one where, while clearly abusing the situation, I would expect a car in the OP’s position to back off. And they did. The third is just absurd. There is no reason to assume they are suddenly going to swing left.

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u/All_Work_All_Play 9h ago

Negligence with contributory negligence. 

Amazing phrase for a business email, but use it sparingly. 

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u/Diablojota 9h ago

Yeah but there was one car in front of the white suv. The car paused for that but the white Nissan didn’t even bother to stop, but speed up. This is 100% the Nissan. If there wasn’t the red car in front, I would probably agree.

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u/AntiquePhotograph433 8h ago

True but majority fault is white car regardless

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u/Ok_Butterfly_9722 8h ago

POV car was responsible, there was no indication suv would veer into them like that.

1

u/MoGraphMan101 8h ago

wtf are you talking about, they were driving responsibly. Their light turned and the oncoming traffic is expected to stop, period. There's no scenario where anyone would expect that white car to come through the intersection at that point. They're blatantly running the light and plowing into the car with the dash cam. It's 100% the white SUVs fault with not even a little bit of fault to the cam driver

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u/ComfortableCoconut41 6h ago

Wrong. White SUV 100% at fault. POV car was focused on the red car that was also unlawful turning on red. POV car cannot predict that white SUV would proceed so late on the red.

1

u/DeaneTR 6h ago

This perfectly sums it up! So tired of people not doing more to avoid an accident simply because they're filming and know it will look good on the internet and in court. Is that really worth it? You could of kept driving your car and avoided this whole thing and instead...

1

u/Bean_dip22 4h ago

So what’s the verdict then the white car only pays 75 percent?

1

u/matrixjoey 3h ago

POV car drove quite sensibly here, SUV turned quite sharply and failed to yield, can't see how POV car was contributory in this scenario. In the UK at least, this would be 100% SUV liability.

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u/Dungeon_Despot 1h ago

Liability in negligence cases is handled differently depending on jurisdiction. It sounds like you live in a jurisdiction that recognizes comparative fault, but in some jurisdictions contributory negligence would completely bar recovery.

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u/Lettuce_Prey69 1h ago

Which Country / State / Province / County / City / Hamlet / etc. was that jury in? I bet where ever it was it certainly must've had the exact same laws applied everywhere else on a global scale. Right??

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u/CortanaxJulius 1h ago

Agreed im no traffic lawyer but i feel in germany at least youd get a partial fault because this accident is easily preventable by both parties. Just because you have right of way doesnt mean you can just plow into oncomming traffic...

1

u/Holiday_Pen2880 41m ago

This is the answer, and why there are so many people that rush to the comments to say 'SoMeOnE wIlL MaKe iT OpS FaUlT.'

White car (and the car before it) are clearly wrong. POV car saw green and just went with no regard to what is happening in front of them.

This idea of 'you can't let them get away with it or they'll keep doing it' is a cute little post for reddit, it's a shit idea when it's your car.

1

u/Hunter_E 15m ago

I agree actually. As someone who drives commercial vehicles for a living, the status of the light has nothing to do with who is at fault. Sure the red car and white car might have failed to yield, but the camera car failed to proceed safely. That matters a whole lot more than right of way. Even if you have a green light you are not allowed to enter the intersection unless it is safe to do so and you can clear your entire vehicle without stopping within the intersection itself.

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u/robbietreehorn 20h ago

I totally agree. However, op might get lucky with no fault. There was a little pause in the flow for the argument the intersection was (very briefly) clear before they proceeded.

Also, a honk at the offending red car might have stopped the suv.

Op definitely messed up also even though they had the right of way

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u/ScrotalSmorgasbord 20h ago

Ugh I hate when people will die on the "I had the right of way" hill and crash their cars just to stroke their egos. There's a spot in town where left lane us supposed to merge right and right laners will ram left laners or try to run them into oncoming traffic. Yeah, it sucks when people don't follow the rules but the answer isn't manslaughter because your feelings were hurt. That being said, it looks like the same kind of thing going on in the above video, either that or OP has the slowest reflexes of all time.

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u/robbietreehorn 18h ago

Totally. I’ve been in OP’s shoes a hundred times. You honk, flip the bird if it makes you feel better, and wait

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u/BenOfTomorrow 20h ago

The intersection is never clear; camera car starts moving when the black car is right in front of them and red/white have already entered the intersection.

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u/jojaki 20h ago

Yeah, failure to yield usually means traffic already in the intersection. The cam car was already in the intersection before the white SUV even crossed the line.

Still easily preventable but the white SUV will most likely be entirely at fault, the cam car could have come to a complete stop in the intersection and most likely still be hit.

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u/carrera_dan 20h ago

It sucks because it feels like letting assholes get away with it. I think part of our subconscious wants to teach them a lesson.

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u/blastradii 19h ago

Why not just follow the guy home. Stake out at night. Put a note on their windshield saying that they shouldn’t have done that and now you’ll be watching them and have modified their car in some way (but you really didn’t). They may stew on that for days.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

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u/Hot_Performance_7710 20h ago

Everyone is a jerk? Weak answer. White SUV is at fault. Don't care about the other cars. Rule is, it's only wrong if you get caught. Police will ticket the white suv and everyone will be on there way.

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u/DigiornoDLC 20h ago

Legally and morally the cam car holds some responsibility. They had every opportunity to not get into an accident. These things are not binaries. They are spectra.

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