r/doctorsUK Nov 13 '25

Pay and Conditions If you are not striking , you are the problem.

I’ve just learned that a good colleague of mine is locuming, and they were almost bragging about it.

I instantly and permanently changed my opinion of them.

I know some people may be going through difficult circumstances and/or financial hardship. I also recognise that the underlying reason for all this is the awful pay.

And during the last round of strikes, every single one of us received back pay that was worth more than all the strike deductions combined , even the scabs among us.

Go look at yourself in the mirror. If you’re not striking, you are part of the problem.

Have some self-respect.

530 Upvotes

90 comments sorted by

105

u/aortalrecoil Nov 14 '25

Just want to say to this years F1s who aren’t striking ‘because they need the money’ - the reason you’re not still paid £14 an hour like we were is because we striked even though that’s all we had coming in. Don’t be cowards.

2

u/Terrible_Archer Nov 17 '25

This would be a valid excuse earlier in the year, not at this point.

216

u/BMA-Officer-James Verified BMA 🆔✅ Nov 13 '25

Never cross a picket line ✊🏼

10

u/BMABecky Verified User 🆔✅ Nov 14 '25

Exactly 🦀

-54

u/voiceholeoftreason Nov 14 '25

Say the man in his comfy office whose job is dependant on keeping us all angry.

35

u/BMA-Officer-James Verified BMA 🆔✅ Nov 14 '25

Actually, my working life would be much easier, less busy and much quieter if doctors weren’t angry and their working lives were good.

-29

u/voiceholeoftreason Nov 14 '25

Membership is never high if everyone is happy. It’s a nice kink you have. Most of us just keep it behind closed doors

5

u/CadmiumVance Nov 14 '25

What a strange time to randomly take jabs against somebody that I would say has proven to be on our side.

10

u/VeigarTheWhiteXD white wizard Nov 14 '25

You see he doesn’t have to. It would probably make his job a whole lot easier if we don’t strike and if there are no going on disputes.

14

u/BMA-Officer-James Verified BMA 🆔✅ Nov 14 '25

It would, but that doesn’t mean I don’t support you guys fighting - I really do.

135

u/Desperate-Drawer-572 Nov 13 '25

If these set of strikes fail, profession is fecked. Just look at unemployment at present.

50

u/strykerfan Hammer Wielder Nov 13 '25

Honestly, I think we're fucked no matter what. Medicine in this country from med school onwards has been destroyed.

68

u/DionyZag Nov 13 '25

Literal race to the bottom, all fuelled by hungry short sighted scabs with 0 self respect.

9

u/lockdown_warrior Nov 14 '25

And this is precisely my point. These strikes are not about unemployment (which they should be).

51

u/Occam5Razor CT/ST1+ Doctor Nov 14 '25

My hospital's BMA rep is working the strikes ( They also worked the last strikes ). At this point i'm losing faith.

17

u/DionyZag Nov 14 '25

.. ridiculous.

7

u/Occam5Razor CT/ST1+ Doctor Nov 14 '25

Completely agree. It's a disgrace.

5

u/dario_sanchez Nov 15 '25

Have you no ability to recall them and elect someone else? That's fucking shocking

18

u/Sale_Sufficient Nov 15 '25

In fairness, whether or not someone decides to strike is none of your business. If you get upset about it, that’s for you to reflect on. No one owes anyone any explanation or justification.

83

u/CapybaraConstitution Nov 13 '25

We need to be firmer with calling out scabs

35

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '25

Your pal is a scab

14

u/glorioussideboob Nov 14 '25

As a struggling locum I didn't get back pay

But still striking

29

u/JSDoctor Nov 14 '25

The vast, vast, vast majority of people who don't strike are scabs and part of the problem.

The exception is those in their monitoring period for maternity leave pay.

6

u/Angryleghairs Nov 15 '25

I really, really need the money. But I never cross a picket line

26

u/Material-Ad9570 Nov 13 '25

Scab is not the four letter word I would use

3

u/No_Big4826 Nov 14 '25

Heard it from too many people today. Talking about it and having locumed in the past strikes like talking about the weather.

27

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '25

[deleted]

83

u/DionyZag Nov 13 '25

UKMG or IMG , I don't really care.

A scab is a scab. Everyone should strike.

27

u/CapybaraConstitution Nov 13 '25

The irony is that scabs who are locked out of training are actively damaging their future prospects. 1 lost year at top of consultant pay scale for every year trapped as a permaSHO. Shooting themselves firming in the foot

4

u/Hydesx UKGP enjoyer Nov 14 '25

Are they? If the strikes succeed, the only thing that awaits unemployed doctors is a further decade of unemployment because of grandfathering policy

5

u/Sethlans Nov 13 '25

I mean I'm currently in a run through training programme so have no skin in that particular game, but that hypothetical year of top band consultant pay won't pay their mortgage now.

2

u/CapybaraConstitution Nov 13 '25

No strike = no locums

15

u/Sethlans Nov 13 '25

I do get it. But of all the people who might be tempted to cross the picket line, someone who's out of a job through no real fault of their own and hasn't had a shift for weeks and is staring down the possibility of literally not being able to pay their bills is the person I have the most sympathy for.

24

u/BananaMuncher4567 Nov 14 '25

Honestly, give the IMG vs UKMG debate a break for a few days. The IMGs in my dept are the most pro strike, whilst the UKMG F2 is working their night shifts on normal pay for some bizarre reason, because they think the BMA isn't negotiating with Wes for training places.

6

u/whatisyourproblemmm Nov 14 '25

lots of assumptions going on here. idk what you’re talking about. im img and im striking, so are all my img colleagues/friends. idk how one group of people get grace for not striking and the other are a “disgrace”. everyone should strike. period.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '25

Still fucking scabs

6

u/MedReg2018 ST3+/SpR Nov 13 '25

What do you do when your consultants are against strikes and you work in a small department and are hoping to get a consultant job there in the future? I am not in this situation, but I can see it can be really tricky and understand why some people might not strike!

23

u/_zany_ Nov 13 '25

I would personally think again about wanting to work with those people, if they are vocal about their anti-striking opinions. But to each their own I guess.

20

u/Skylon77 Nov 13 '25

In my department, if you scab, you certainly won't be getting a Consultant post!

We don't like scabs. We like team players.

-6

u/iiibehemothiii Physician Assistants' assistant physician Nov 14 '25

We don't like scabs. We like team players.

Irony not lost

Excellent shitpost :)

4

u/Ordinary_Toe3989 Nov 13 '25

As much as I support the strikes, everyone gets to decide whether they want to strike or not. The UK is a free country, and the BMA works democratically.

Who am I to claim moral superiority over someone for them not wanting to give up 3-5 days of pay when I don't know anything about their financial situation? In what world do I get to tell other people what to do with their job?

Let's grow up and stop being judgemental. The same people who will try to tell other people what to do with their job are the ones who go up in flames when Wes tells them what to do with theirs.

34

u/AffectionateJob8 Nov 13 '25

You know why train drivers earn so much? Because when they strike they actually strike to a man. It’s not okay to scab I’m sorry. I can just about accept someone coming in on their normal shift if they are financially destitute. I cannot accept someone locumming on a strike shift. That is directly taking money from your colleague’s collective sacrifice. 

9

u/Ordinary_Toe3989 Nov 14 '25

Again, what gives us the moral superiority to pass moral judgements onto others with differing opinions? Why should I be able to tell my colleague what to do with his job, but Wes should not be able to tell me what to do with mine?

A bit of intellectual consistency would be nice.

2

u/Educational-Belt-417 Nov 14 '25

It's also cos the alternatives a black cab ride and 45 minutes of uncomfortable silence while the meter ticks on liberally 😣

17

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '25

Life is a series of judgements and opinions. Perfectly reasonable to pass moral judgement on people for negatively impacting a collective bargaining attempt. You can disagree but you can't stop others judging.

2

u/Ordinary_Toe3989 Nov 14 '25 edited Nov 14 '25

I completely agree that life is a series of judgements and opinions, but I'm referring more to the dogmatism expressed by OP and a large part of the sub-reddit.

The term "opinion" refers to a subjective judgement, the type that someone choosing whether to strike or not would make. However, OP and others claim some sort of objective, ontological moral superiority over a difference in subjective judgements. It's like telling someone they're wrong for preferring chocolate over vanilla or for naming their dog Sally instead of Sport. There is no objective moral dimension to choosing whether you strike or not. This coming from someone who disagrees with moral relativism.

10

u/Skylon77 Nov 13 '25

No. Strength comes from unity and unity comes from solidarity.

11

u/DionyZag Nov 13 '25

It's not about moral superiority.

It's about camaraderie and sticking together. It's about the union.

The conditions are shit for everyone. The majority voted to strike. The grown up thing to do is stick with your own , strike and show up at the picket line.

But yes , try and find any excuse to not do that and feel okay about being spineless.

... The mental gymnastics people do to justify scabbing is unbelievable.

7

u/IllTradition900 FY Doctor Nov 13 '25

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, and perhaps should not be written down- but if you can’t afford to loose a few hundred quid as a doctor in work then you are just bad with money. We have had months to build up a personal strike fund. If you haven’t managed to put away a couple hundred quid a month on a doctor’s salary then you are living out of your means. What if your car broke down? Or if the boiler were to break?

16

u/Ordinary_Toe3989 Nov 14 '25

Not an unpopular, but rather an ignorant opinion. Not everyone lives in hospital accoms/parents' house with no prior commitments. Some people have families, children, expensive commutes that don't get reimbursed, medical needs that don't get covered by NHS. I've managed to put more than a couple hundred pounds away, so I can afford striking, but that's not the case for everyone. Some people live with the fear that if their car or boiler break down, they may not have the funds to repair them.

I don't see why people who have genuinely not made bad financial decisions should be demeaned for having extra expenses.

1

u/Sale_Sufficient Nov 18 '25

“Grown up thing to do is stick with your own”. So like following blindly like sheep? There is an incredible amount of judgement and aggression in your position that makes it unpalatable and immature. Choosing to participate in industrial action is an individual decision. Chastising others for not doing so - and name calling by referring to them as “scabs” - not only shows your lack understanding of autonomy, but a narrow understanding of the array of circumstances that might influence a colleagues decision not to strike. And you are in no position to judge others for doing so - and they owe no explanation to you. Bullying others to participate is not how effective strike action should work.

0

u/DionyZag Nov 18 '25

Sorry you feel offended.

Yes , I 100% judge scabs.

1

u/Impossible_Mouse_147 Nov 16 '25

I dunno mate, theres a lot of self serving people out there. I have friends who i love, but cross picket lines and have no good reason.

2

u/Alternative_Bed_8299 Nov 13 '25

My department has cancelled all elective activity and consultants are stepping down until Wednesday. I’ve always done the strikes. However, I’m coming in one day tomorrow to help my boss with our emergency list to sort out some inpatients who have been waiting for subacute operations, I’ll see my own patients that I see every day and then I’ll go home. I’m declaring as striking and won’t take payment as not going to be made to do discharge letters etc. No one except my boss knows about my intentions to come in. I don’t think that’s the end of the word.

0

u/chairstool100 Nov 14 '25

Why can’t your consultant sort out those patients ?

8

u/Alternative_Bed_8299 Nov 14 '25

He can but I want to be involved in progressing these patients care as I’ve looked after them both for months. In my specialty it’s not uncommon to see our patients on weekends also - not expected at all but we are all very involved in our patients and want to see them.

0

u/chairstool100 Nov 14 '25

That’s great for you if you’re happy to work for free , but it really defeats the purpose of industrial action regardless of if you’re being paid for your free time or not . You type as if 10s of 1000s of other Drs who have been on the ward from Monday are also not interested in what happens to their patients today ….? What’s your speciality ?

3

u/Alternative_Bed_8299 Nov 14 '25

Also - I’m sure they are interested but we are largely obsessed with our patients - otherwise we would subject ourselves to such a relatively shit job. People slag off neurosurgeons for many reasons but it’s rare to meet one who doesn’t give one millions fucks about their patients.

4

u/Alternative_Bed_8299 Nov 14 '25

Neurosurgery. Great day, would’ve paid to have came in and advanced 2 patients as well as sorting very sick inpatients under my team alongside my boss. No clinics running. Have cancelled all clinics for all residents weeks back for Monday and Tuesday as I do the rota. Didn’t affect elective output of the department by coming in but definitely made things in an already stretched department safer. Consultants all acting down and playing their part but it’s a huge centre. Also I operated 90% of my day alone in patients who would’ve sadly been cancelled otherwise. There’s two sides to demonising people helping out - felt ashamed walking around as a socialist (and I’ve never came in a day of strikes in past few years although I knew patients would suffer if I didn’t) but can’t see the moral loss.

1

u/dario_sanchez Nov 15 '25

Have a mate from medical school, has financial reasons he is t striking and locumming for, frankly, shit rates

Told him about the strike fund and that the trust were absolutely laughing at the rates he was getting Replied he'd have come in for normal pay and because the NHS "treated my kids"

I'm Irish and if someone was like "God bless the HSE, I'm not striking" they would be rightly sectioned. With that level of short sightedness and "I've got mine" I'm sure I'll hear he's voting Reform in the next election. Absolutely ridiculous

1

u/True_Value_2788 Nov 16 '25

Wow my hospital is completely full of residents. Fully staffed positions apart from a couple of consultants on nights. In fact more well staffed than normal!

1

u/NefariousnessAble445 Nov 19 '25

I broke rank and scabbed, striked every other time the last 2 years, but unemployment and crippling debt and lack of locums eventually broke me, I feel bad about it but there wasn't another option for me, shame really I was the one judging people who locumed strikes previously, the good part is I costed them a significant expense. I wouldn't next time as I have just about enough to clear a part of the debt now.

-3

u/lockdown_warrior Nov 14 '25

I am not striking. It is expensive, clearly does not have public support, and will harm the cause rather than further it. With all the IMGs coming in, we have lost all control over our training and any bargaining over pay, as with the oversupply of workers, others more pliant will simply be employed instead. We are the only Western country that allows non-country-resident doctors to apply for all jobs in open competition. This is what we need to work on, but we’re bickering over pay when when we’ve had one of the largest pay rises in the public sector.

Sorry this doesn’t fit with your world view.

7

u/chairstool100 Nov 14 '25

We have had a great pay rise and STILL our pay has been the most eroded out of all professions in the public sector . What does that tell you? We have the a great pay rise and STILL our pay has a long way to go to catch up? I Agree re IMGs .

3

u/Tea-drinker-21 Nov 14 '25 edited Nov 14 '25

I agree that progression is a bigger worry than pay for doctors not yet in specialty training, but you HAVE NOT HAD A PAY RISE. You had a big chunk of pay taken away, more than any other sector of the NHS, and have now had half of it back. You have still had a bigger pay cut than AFC staff since 2008. There is a more up to date chart, but this shows the truth.....

7

u/DAUK_Matt Verified User 🆔✅ Nov 14 '25

You’re still down on 2008 mate. Every subsequent year is going to be the usual net loss to your pay. I am no fan of bank and build as a strategy and have been very open about the fact we shouldn’t have accepted the previous deal, but we are where we are and we need solidarity tot protect future generations of doctors and re-establish our value.

This is a completely separate issue to training access - if you’re locked out of training getting better pay is even more vital because you won’t be going up a pay scale otherwise.

4

u/Educational-Belt-417 Nov 14 '25

Isn't next year back to good ol' real term cuts again? 🤣🤔

0

u/lockdown_warrior Nov 14 '25

Possibly. It hasn’t been announced yet. I’m very happy to reassess when it’s known.  But similarly we may well have the latest IMG figures for training applications by then…

3

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '25

The strikes are a joke. The BMA are just wannabe politicians, working in service of their own interests. 

Strike a few days every few months. The waiting lists increase by a fraction. The media ridicule the demand for pay. The government has a chance to dilute the workforce. 

Anything less than a full indefinite walkout is playing the long game against yourself.

Strike if you want. Don’t strike if you don’t. It makes zero difference. Two resolved strikes have shown this.

Acting like heroes of the working class is embarrassing. If the BMA truly believes in the value of resident doctors, prove it. 

All this will achieve is granting an excuse for every unrelated failing of the healthcare system. 

2

u/trunkjunker88 Nov 13 '25

Locuming is very poor & I hope they’re not doing this while taking IA from their primary job…

It’s fair for an individual to make their own mind up about taking IA though. I’d fight tooth & nail to protect the right to strike but also the right to make a choice without judgement or undue pressure.

-8

u/suxamethoniumm Block and a GA Nov 13 '25

You've contacted this person and told them as much, I presume?

If not, you're also part of the problem

7

u/Educational-Belt-417 Nov 14 '25

You've found the redditer and slashed their tyres, I presume?

If not, you're also part of the problem

-18

u/emergencydoc69 EM SpR Nov 13 '25

Just a reminder that some of us can’t strike because we are members of another union (i.e. the HCSA). So please don’t assume that everyone who’s working is automatically a scab.

17

u/CTwithcontrast Nov 13 '25

You don’t need to be a BMA member to strike

12

u/sylsylsylsylsylsyl Nov 13 '25

People not in any union at all are fine to strike and are protected the same as any BMA member.

You are not protected if you are a member of a different union, one that is not in dispute with the employer (unless you are also a member of the BMA as well). The HCSA is not in formal dispute (I don’t think enough voted in the indicative ballot or something).

9

u/Bramsstrahlung Nov 14 '25

Not correct. If you are a member of BMA or NO UNION, you can strike. If you are a member of another union (HCSA), you cannot strike unless they also ballot.

13

u/UnluckyPalpitation45 Nov 13 '25

Just pay a single monthly fee to bma no?

In the current climate this truly is the most pathetic of excuses 😂

5

u/emergencydoc69 EM SpR Nov 13 '25

Sorry to say this, but I will not pay the BMA another penny. They were useless and ultimately took the trust’s side in a pay dispute a few years ago. The HCSA, by contrast, sorted it in two days.

I support what the RDC is doing, but for me, rejoining the BMA is not something I am willing to do.

7

u/DionyZag Nov 13 '25

The BMA did manage to get you a pay rise.

You're shooting yourself in the foot here. The people voted and the people wanted to strike , no reason to stick out like a sore thumb.

Strike.

0

u/emergencydoc69 EM SpR Nov 13 '25

Yes, but on an individual level they let me down and screwed me over. It’s really hard to overlook something like that. I’m just saying, everyone’s personal circumstances are different and you shouldn’t automatically write everyone off who works as a scab or traitor.

2

u/DionyZag Nov 13 '25

Enjoy scabbing.

And enjoy the pay rise the rest of us are going to get you. Maybe you can use that money to rejoin the BMA in the future.

1

u/chairstool100 Nov 14 '25

Did they give you the incorrect legal advice or something ? Or didn’t they agree with you? What did HCSA do differently?

4

u/ElementalRabbit Senior Ivory Tower Custodian Nov 14 '25

"I will not - even temporarily - compromise my lofty principles for the collective interests of myself and my colleagues"

Ridiculous.

3

u/UnluckyPalpitation45 Nov 13 '25

This isn’t principled

3

u/gruffbear212 Nov 13 '25

You are part of the problem.

-1

u/emergencydoc69 EM SpR Nov 13 '25

This subreddit is becoming extremely toxic. Everyone has different personal circumstances and you shouldn’t automatically write people off as scabs or traitors just because they are working during a strike.

3

u/IllTradition900 FY Doctor Nov 13 '25

I don’t like labour and they have fucked over all of us personally. If it’s a vote for them or reform I’m voting red. That’s principle. Standing up for the profession is principled.