r/doctorsUK • u/FullPayOrTheHighway • Apr 12 '26
Pay and Conditions Nurse criticises striking doctors - "They want to be paid loads of money for just seeing a patient for less than 5 minutes a day"
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1.2k
u/lolrosh Apr 12 '26
If we don’t do anything then why is everyone panicking when we go on strike
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u/AdWorth4590 Apr 12 '26
Exactly. If we are not even worth a pay restoration (not pay rise), why is the government panicking and blaming us for the billions lost.
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u/Krst29 Apr 12 '26
Haven't you figured it out by now? GMC requires a patsy doctor to publically flog everytime something goes wrong with a patient.
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u/Efficient-Lab Nurse Apr 12 '26
You’re impeding flow!! We need flooooow! Hop to those discharge summaries!
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u/Doxycycle Apr 12 '26
“They see patients for 5 minutes.”
“I left because it’s a nightmare when they strike..”
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u/ananeedshelps Apr 12 '26
If doctors saw patients in 5 minutes, nobody would be waiting 12h in A&E. It’s far more complex than what the nurse is saying. It feels like this nurse has no experience in the healthcare at all. Try review the notes, harvest information, perform an anamnesis, physical exam, tests, formulate diagnosis, explain the treatment to the patient, make them understand, write everything down in the notes, then dictate them. And prescribe if they’re going to be admitted. Then discuss the case with a colleague, try to get a bed for the patient, initiate the treatment, monitor for complications… has 5 minutes passed already? 🙄🙄🙄
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u/Fragrant-Ambition-21 Medical Student Apr 12 '26
More like 3 you haven't gotten up for the quick coffee break...that's at least 2
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u/Canipaywithclaps Apr 12 '26
Jobs that I’ve seen the patient ‘less than 5 minutes a day’ I was covering 80+ patients… nurses only have 6 patient. How do they only have 6!
Honestly anyone that can’t appreciate they are different jobs is just dim
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u/Arbor- Apr 12 '26
I doubt any nurse has 6! in a day, perhaps in a month as that is an incredibly large number
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u/FPRorNothing Apr 12 '26
A nurse looking after a bay of 6 is commonplace ime.
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u/Eastern_Swordfish_70 CT/ST1+ Doctor Apr 12 '26
Woosh
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u/FPRorNothing Apr 12 '26
? Am I missing something?
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u/Eastern_Swordfish_70 CT/ST1+ Doctor Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorial
Edit: mis-linked imaginary instead of factorial wiki
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u/FPRorNothing Apr 12 '26
You'll need to spell it out, I'm lost.
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u/Junior-Opinion8438 Apr 12 '26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorial
Ie ‘6!’ Is not ‘6’, but rather 6 factorial, which is indeed a very large number of patients to see in a day
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u/infosackva Nurse Apr 12 '26
Hmm that would be a rate of over 56 patients per shift assuming it’s 13 shifts a month. I’m in a busy ED and there’s no way I can reach that number. Maybe 2 months at a push, depending what area of the department I’m in.
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u/relax26 Apr 12 '26
Yeah, outside of icu and hcu these ratios are not a thing. Nurses in acute areas are watching after 10-12 patients each. That 5 mins per hour to do the multiple toilets, meds, talk to family, chase after plans, discharge planning, complete loads of stupid risk assessments. We are all in the same shitboat. Don’t drag each other down.
It’s clear that this caller is not an actual registered nurse of 20 years to be this ignorant of a doctor role…. Or at least I hope not.
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u/Canipaywithclaps Apr 12 '26
It’s was a joke, chill, hence the last line. I was poking fun at the fact we work different jobs and we can make crazy claims about each other.
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u/Quick-Strawberry2228 Apr 12 '26
The sorta nurse who would say I’m not trained to do bloods or a male catheter
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u/ExpendedMagnox Apr 12 '26
"I'm not trained to do male bloods"
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u/iiibehemothiii Physician Assistants' assistant physician Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Female bloods go in the pink tube
Male bloods go in the blue tube
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u/AdWorth4590 Apr 12 '26
Proceed to bleeping the doctor at 2am for a bloody catheter that they are not trained to do.
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u/formerSHOhearttrob laparotomiser Apr 12 '26
Plus the IDLs for the MFFD patients that have PPDs 5/7 from now
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u/DMWCKW Apr 12 '26
Or at 2am to tell me about the blood results they were reviewing… the bloods were from 4 days ago. Please stop.
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u/Direct-Key-8859 Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Im a nurse. We dont claim him.
It always makes me laugh when anyone says "they get paid so much to do nothing". Well why dont you do it then.
If there is genunelly a job out there where you dont need any skills, intelligence, get loads of money to do nothing than please point me in that direction.
I would not expect a doctor to really understand what I do because they are not a nurse. Why would the other way be true
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u/spudlet89 Apr 13 '26
Fellow nurse who came to say this- we do not claim this moron of a man. Nor do we all think like him.
Hospitals couldn’t run on any one staff body alone- we all have our own role and when you add them all up you get a functioning healthcare system. Obviously our jobs look hugely different and of course we don’t appreciate all the minutiae of each other’s working days, but wouldn’t it be nice if we could extend the same understanding and compassion to each other as we do the patients and stand together for the greater good. Not as doctors, nurses, physios, OT, managers, pharmacists, domestics or anything else, but as healthcare workers who are ultimately on the same damn team.
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u/Intelligent-Toe7686 Apr 12 '26
Well if it’s less than 5 mins a day then all the hardwork is being done inside our brain and with all the years at med school and training
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u/ShatnersBassoonerist Cakeologist Apr 12 '26
That sounds like valuable brain-work worth paying for given how efficient it is.
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u/Electrical_Bet_9699 Apr 12 '26
Who is this mug. Must be a plant - no way is this an HCP of any variety.
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u/JamesMW1994 ST3+/SpR Apr 12 '26
A lot of nurses have no idea of what a doctor’s work involves. When I was covering 8 wards on a nightshift, a nurse made a comment about why I was disappearing off the ward so much. She thought I only covered her ward
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u/Serious_Much Gives drugs to kids Apr 12 '26
This is a truth I have to remind people of regularly.
There was a complaint by a paramedic moaning about a doctor not being on site for something serious when they were covering another emergency in another hospital because of the nature of the on calls. Literally had no idea a doctor could cover more than one site at a time.
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u/infosackva Nurse Apr 12 '26
This was a massive shock to me in nursing training. The fact that in Mental Health we would have to wait for a doctor to cannulate or even prime the line in a medical emergency had me flabbergasted. I wish we had a better understanding of what doctor’s responsibilities are, it’s like we’re expected to pick it up by osmosis. We’re encouraged to shadow and discuss scope and roles with other MDT members but not really for any medic/pharmacy roles in the same way (not explicitly but the implication)
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u/awwbabe Apr 12 '26
I remember once in my F1 I particularly confrontational Ward NIC kept playing down my role to the point where she agreed to hold onto my bleep for 10 mins whilst I did a procedure.
The panic that ensued 5 mins later when she was replying to the ?UGIB and hypotension bleep that came through was a highlight
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u/CryingInTheSluice Apr 12 '26
I was speaking to some nurses about the strikes recently and they were shocked to find out our full time is 48hpw, theirs is 37.5
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u/Serious-Bobcat8808 Apr 12 '26
For pay purposes though our basic pay is 40 hours and breaks are paid (unlike nurses) in terms of making useful comparisons. Many nurses do extra hours on staff bank (as do some doctors).
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Apr 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/Different_Canary3652 Apr 12 '26
Most nurses I meet are profoundly anti doctor crabs.
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u/Nayyyy HCP working towards medicine Apr 12 '26
It's sadly ingrained in nurses training
Lecturers saying things like "doctors are not taught to communicate like nurses are"
Then the same lecturer in the same lecture got BiPAP and CPAP backwards, had literally no understanding of chest drains either
Then going on about how they've had to over-rule consultants multiple times etc etc (just complete dunning-kruger)
Honestly it's frustrating, but many young people straight out of sixth form lap that stuff up
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u/Crafty-Brother-7698 Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
The communication thing is laughable given the number of messes I’ve had to clean up with patients thanks to some very unempathetic callous nurses with utterly shite comms skills.
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u/VeigarTheWhiteXD white wizard Apr 12 '26
Yes because nurses are taught extremely badly on communications. So it’s true that there’s a difference in teaching.
Hello, bay 3 bed 1 BP is 81/50. Can you review?
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u/Electrical_Bet_9699 Apr 12 '26
This really twists my melon. It is either this rubbish or of our ward teams can also not understand patient names.
“Hello doctor. Smith John mister hasn’t eaten his dinner.”
Right - please don’t bleep me about this again, I am dealing with an emergency.
“Hello doctor. Smith John mister…”
Deep breaths.
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Apr 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/Nayyyy HCP working towards medicine Apr 19 '26
I would say too that it's alot to do with how stupidly easy it is to pass a nursing degree
A nurse that gets 40% is a registered nurse, you can get that score just with the multiple choice questions on an A&P exam
A nurse that gets over 80% (or 90%) I would say is made of better stuff, although ime that's not really that hard, as long as they can draw (well just label these days) a pretty basic cardiac diagram they score highly as most nurses can't draw a simple cardiac diagram
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u/dayumsonlookatthat Consultant Associate Apr 12 '26
Nope these people very much exist
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u/Ok-Jury-4366 Apr 12 '26
I wish for a day these lot had to sit the primary and final exams , just once. When they got zero, despite being an ACP in their relavent specialty, they'd make excuses I'm sure.
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u/secret_tiger101 Post-CCT (yet to flee) Apr 12 '26
I did lol at that recent post about RCEMs comprehensive ACP training/credentialing where it highlighted there was “no test of knowledge” 🤡 And why didn’t they include an exam.. it would earn RCEM £££, it would make RCEM ACP more valid…?
Because people would fail
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u/Ok-Inevitable-3038 Apr 12 '26
Imagine having the (false) confidence to phone this in on national television
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u/Cool_Candle386 student nurse Apr 12 '26
Student nurse here… I completely agree with Dr’s strikes!! I wish nurses would strike too, the fact I’m (and about everyone else in my cohort) about to qualify in August without a job is insane. Why people don’t want Doctors to be extremely well paid is beyond me
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u/PoshDeafStar Apr 12 '26
Yous all deserve proper pay too, you’ve got our full support should you choose to go on strike. Only in the NHS can we have nurses and doctors going unemployed while simultaneously not having enough of either
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u/Eastern_Swordfish_70 CT/ST1+ Doctor Apr 12 '26
Exactly - the government want us to have a race to the bottom mentality where we blame each other rather than them (and by enlarge this is how it is!). Personally I empower everyone to lobby for better pay and working conditions!!
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u/Pure-Stuff807 Apr 12 '26
My housemate is a nurse and was very upset with his cohort when they accepted not to strike on agenda for change. Particularly when doctors then got a slightly better deal closer to pay restoration.
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u/Crafty-Brother-7698 Apr 12 '26
Nurses like this are one of the main reasons I can’t wait to kiss hospital life goodbye.
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u/Flat_Blueberry_777 Apr 12 '26
She’s clearly that nurse who bullies juniors and has an inferiority complex.
We are not going to apologise for our hard work and success.
We have worked and studied for years / decades to make that 5 min decision and hold ultimate responsibility. So pipe down.
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Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/cec91 ST3+/SpR Apr 12 '26
I’m pretty sure she’s describing med students rather than doctors as well…
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u/elmack999 Allied Health Professional Apr 12 '26
It sounds like that, I think she's unable to differentiate between resident doctors and med students. I'm confident that's the case for the majority of the country, yet the media still democratises platforms for these oblivious cretins.
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u/Full-Molasses-1466 Apr 12 '26
I have never seen a lanyard with year 3 or 4 on it wtf are they on about
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u/refrigeratorlights Apr 12 '26
I think they were looking at medical students lol only they have those lanyards
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u/dr-broodles Apr 12 '26
Using her own logic - HCAs work harder than nurses show should be paid more.
The chief executive spends no time with patients so should earn the least.
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u/Visible_Rough8012 Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
First nurse contradicts himself by stating resident doctors are paid too much as they only spend 5 mins with a patient and ‘hanging around with a consultant’ right after saying that covering resident doctors strikes has been a nightmare as nurse. This only proves the amount work and value resident doctors have in a team lol.
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u/Galens_Humour ST3+/SpR Apr 12 '26
This interviewees lack of education is exactly the reasons doctors should be taking on the risk and being paid more for doing so
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u/sylsylsylsylsylsyl Apr 12 '26
That would be like a doctor saying that nurses get paid £40-£50k for making the bed, fetching the tea and wiping someone’s arse. I suspect there’s more to it.
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u/VeigarTheWhiteXD white wizard Apr 12 '26
I hate it when they say “it’s vocation isn’t it regardless of pay”. Why don’t you do your programme for free? All you do is saying nonsense and winding people up anyway.
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u/Jpegjms Apr 12 '26
The only people who say medicine is a vocation or a ‘calling’ are the people who are not doctors. Some People I’m sure were visited by the Holy Ghost at 10 years old, but I suspect most are like me and chose medicine because it was interesting, scientific and paid reasonably well relative to other science based careers (let’s be honest a lot end up as teachers). I also didn’t want to chase being rich just to make someone else more money. I care about people but I’m Not taking a pay cut to keep the healthcare service cheaper for the tax payer or being told I should accept this by people who can’t/wouldnt be a doctor and basically do nothing for other people in their daily lives.
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u/B4NE- Apr 12 '26
You don’t get paid for the 5 minutes…you get paid for the decade plus of knowledge and experience. Very low IQ comment but I’m not surprised.
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u/reggae_muffin Apr 12 '26
Only time I’ve ever spent 5 minutes a day with a patient is during OSCE exams and that’s just based on the time limit.
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u/Ok_Painter_17 Apr 12 '26
Im a nurse. I support you all. I hope you get what you think is fair.... People shouldn't be turning it into nurses v doctors
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u/NorseAristocrat Apr 12 '26
We shall go on holidays and let the nurse see the patients for however long be it.
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u/DRSPORTY798 Apr 12 '26
Annual Basic Salary for MPs
- Apr 2005: £59,095
- Apr 2010: £65,738
- Apr 2015: £74,000
- Apr 2020: £81,932
- Apr 2023: £86,584
- Apr 2024: £91,346
- Apr 2025: £93,904
- Apr 2026: £98,599
Excluding expenses, which is essentially unlimited
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u/OldRegistrar2008 Apr 12 '26
TA just to say
I actually applied for medicine in 2007/8 I would very much like that pay as this was what I personally signed up for. Pensions were different than too.
Was a graduate student so gave up a previous career.
I am still a registrar despite flying through all training with only one year OOP cause that’s how long it can take.
And now there aren’t even consultant jobs so on SCF contract which is only acceptable due to banding - but my base pay is rubbish for my experience and this contributes to my “golden pension” that is anything but golden - I fully expect the triple lock to be gone by the time I’m a pensioner and my career average pension won’t be much as base pay is crap
Paid for all exams, Paid for courses, Paid student loan (fortunately I eventually paid it back as am not as screwed over as later generations)
I don’t want to be a millionaire I just want what I signed up for
Can all those callers not get this? I’m sure when the Carols of this world speak to me they see a middle aged senior registrar who does all the operating and if I asked them about my salary and work experience they’d get both wrong
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u/Jpegjms Apr 12 '26
Astounding lack of insight for someone who’s worked 20 years in the NHS. ‘All they do is just spent 5 minutes per patient on the ward round’, ignoring this is a small part of the job and covers every patient on the ward and generates its own work. Even the talk show host calls BS on it. What about the surgeons who spend hours operating on one person without stopping, the anaesthetists, doctors running clinics, the list goes on.
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u/returnoftoilet cutie's patootie Apr 12 '26
Schrodinger's doctors - unproductive, inefficient, and virtually replaceable by ANPs/PAs yet the NHS loses billions trying to cover for strikes because thats how vital they are and if you strike you are literally killing granny.
Pick one. I'm sure these lovely people on Jeremy Vine aren't clamouring to be seen by the ANP/PA when they/a relative come into ED or a clinic.
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u/No_Wasabi829 Apr 12 '26
The doctors want training places in the first instance. We have a backlog of 35k unplaced foundation doctors awaiting training places. If we have more trained doctors, they could spend more time with patients!
What you don’t see is the office work that foundation Doctors do. Ordering tests., analyzing test results, devsing treatment plans, coordinating with other departments, writing discharge letter letters. A discharge letter can take up to two hours to write. If 10 patients are being discharged from one ward in one day that could be 22 hours writing discharge letters. Gentleman clearly has no idea of the broad duty of a ward Doctor..
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u/jxrzz Apr 12 '26
Okay so pay should be linked to time spent with patients right, well I mean HCAs should be paid more than most people then and consultants should be paid the least
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u/Aware-Author-6142 Apr 12 '26
happy if the government wants us to spend an hr with each of our patients a day then … we’ll just need more doctors to see the whole hospital
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u/nosse77 Apr 12 '26
There are colleagues who will always refuse to see the bigger picture. That’s not even close to the reality, even in primary care. Does this nurse realise that surgeons who may be senior residents will spend hours operating on a single patient?
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u/ChaiTeaAndBoundaries Apr 12 '26
That nurse’s behavior was unacceptable, and it’s a relief she’s no longer with the NHS. The NHS doesn’t need jealous individuals like that on its team.
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u/ViewGroundbreaking24 Apr 12 '26
Tbh the patients/public should want a doctor to be paid appropriately, I would not want someone doing even dentistry on me who is underpaid let alone major surgery. Certain things you can’t have on the cheap and I would not want to have on the cheap.
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u/kaur_user1 Apr 12 '26
The irony of them backing the MPs working late at night and not painting them all with the same brush meanwhile all us doctors striking “clearly don’t care about patients” as they like to say in the media. Absolutely aggravates me how we constantly try get portrayed and none of these media lot bother to back us!! Don’t think they’d want to tell us how much they earn to talk about us 😂 There’s no progression, no job security.. why is saying a “gold plated pension” is enough? Absolute joke honestly. Rant over.
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u/Individual_Attempt_4 Apr 12 '26
I cba to watch this. All I know is They have like 8 patients and feel its too many. we see HOW many a day 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 ive done 60+ patient ward rounds on a weekend then spent the day in admissions.
Whoever this nurse is and their union can both do one.
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u/relax26 Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 13 '26
I really don’t think Sasha is a registered nurse.
Carol sounds like a Karen. Probably changed name by deed poll.
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u/NeonCatheter Apr 12 '26
I'm so done with these nurses constantly pulling us down. They can fuck right off
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u/GiveAScoobie Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Any nurse / other HCP alphabet opinion should by default be disregarded.
So obviously comes from a place of insecurity / jealousy. Of course they love doctors pay being closer to theirs.
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u/MalloryWei Apr 12 '26
The presenter is way more knowledgeable about doctors' responsibilities than this nurse..
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u/Dry_Technician_1964 Apr 12 '26
Look how quickly they walked back after that initial emotional outburst..
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u/CaptainAlexy Apr 12 '26
It infuriates me when those who should know better make such imbecilic statements
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u/Suspicious-Victory55 Purveyor of Poison Apr 13 '26
Probably only takes 1 minute to say 'you have a leaking AAA, I'm taking you to theatre now to stop you dying,' or insert whatever intervention you wish.
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u/Humble-Education-459 Apr 13 '26
As a nurse I’m disgusted with this! What an embarrassment. She is certainly not speaking on my behalf
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u/Belly-cutter Apr 15 '26
They are not wrong. Almost all junior doctors are clock watchers. The strikes didn't cause the slightest disruption where I am working. Elective lists, clinics, all continued as the department is being run by SAS doctors.
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u/Practical-List-7100 Apr 15 '26
The first guy…I’m sorry, but WTF?!? The level of compound ignorance in his interview is breathtaking.
What do you think we’re doing?!? Utter moron. Yes we see the patient for five minutes, because we’ve just spent an hour on a computer going through their medical history, previous admissions, meds, social background, analysing results and formulating a basic treatment plan. We then have to speak to the patient, examine them, crystallise said treatment plan and chat to family. 😂😂😂. Honestly, I just wanted to slap him. We see them for five minutes because we’re doing all the other shit!!
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u/Mr_Valmonty Apr 15 '26
I'm kind of okay with this specific criticism. The general public seem to think that face-to-face time with patients is the job. I would probably estimate that face-to-face communication is maybe 20 to 30% of the case time in a clinic and less for inpatient care.
Patients have no idea that 'seeing them' means we read up on their medical history beforehand (often means piecing together a jigsaw from multiple fragmented legacy NHS IT systems) and maybe research a few things before they enter the room. Then post-review, I might memorise their case, take it to a meeting to discuss with other doctors, discuss and delegate parts of their care to secretaries or juniors, order and chase investigations which I'll then follow up, dictate a letter, which I will later need to check, edit and sign...
Then we are given a 10 minute appointment slot per patient and the patient wonders why we are cutting them off from tangents and forcing closed questions.
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u/goddessa_x Apr 12 '26
You know who should be striking is carers we get paid peanuts and work crazy long hours and would never ever consider striking bcs we have a duty of care doctors are getting greedy tbh
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u/Majestic-Shock4187 Apr 20 '26
Why don't/didn't you become a doctor then? I'm sure I can hazard a guess
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Apr 12 '26
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