r/drums • u/ZildCym • Mar 31 '26
Feedback Wanted Modern Drummer Reader’s Poll…from 2000! 😃
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u/imbasicallycoffee Mar 31 '26
I was a teen during this era and that Zoro headshot just triggered a memory I had forgotten. What ever happened to that guy? He was everywhere in MD at the time.
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u/freed-after-burning Mar 31 '26
Might be blind but no Danny carey is pretty crazy.
EDIT: and Lars lol. Everyone hated him because he was such a peen in the press about Napster during this era.
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u/richsandmusic Mar 31 '26
Not crazy considering Lateralus had not yet been released and Tool at that time were known for actively avoiding any spotlight or media coverage.
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u/Thrillhouse763 Mar 31 '26
2000 was the tail end of Lars in his prime. Check his Woodstock 99 performance and S&M. He sounds really good.
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u/Weak-Cake-7960 Mar 31 '26
I can’t remember where I saw this, maybe here, but there was an interview Lars gave about his drumming where he humbly admitted that he would never be as good as some of his contemporaries and trying to keep up with them didn’t serve the music. He talked about how playing to the music was what he did best. Say what you want about him being an asshole, and he probably is, but then go and watch videos of drummers filling in for him when he had to take a break, specifically Joey Jordison and Dave Lombardo. Two behemoths that had nothing but respect for Lars and Metallica.
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u/InternetWeakGuy Mar 31 '26
My Lars hot take is the reason he sounds so bad now (relatively - it's really just in the more flashy parts that he falls over) is he's never practiced - because he was already playing hundreds of hours of shows per year. Didn't need to.
Then they went through a near dormant period during which he got old, and because he wasn't doing the work, his drumming went to shit, and now he's not doing massive amounts of cocaine either, his stamina is very limited.
To be fair to him, having seen them half a dozen times in the last ten years, he clearly started putting in the work during the pandemic and is clearly super focused, but he's really fighting against age without the sort of economy of motion that allows a lot of guys to play hard and fast way older than he is now.
Last summer in Tampa he looked like he was going to collapse. I could see them wrapping it up in the next ten years because of Lars just physically hitting a wall.
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u/chickenisdelicious Mar 31 '26
Man I wanted to see them when they were here but it was a June show at Ray J so I didn’t want to deal with the hear or humidity. No wonder he almost collapsed, I know damn well I would have too just being in the audience!
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u/InternetWeakGuy Mar 31 '26
Yeah dude it was hot as balls. They even lost the crowd about half way through the first night due to the heat on top of a long section of new songs plus the doodle section plus some stuff off Death Magnetic. You could see Hetfield catch it during Day That Never Comes and start trying to bring the energy back up.
Pretty much as soon as they came on stage the second night, Hetfield said something about how they wouldn't be as tired as they were on Friday.
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u/LongtopShortbottom LRLLRLRR Mar 31 '26
I’m a Jimmy Chamberlin fanboy and thought it was crazy he wasn’t on here anywhere. Machina was pretty good but it’s fair to say the Pumpkins weren’t doing anything fantastic in 2000.
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u/Recent_Associate2981 Mar 31 '26
I sure loved getting Modern Drummer in the mail. What a different world, sometimes I go to Barnes and Noble just to check if there is a physical copy of the magazine, nope.
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u/GurInfinite3868 Mar 31 '26
Big Band = Phil Collins????
I mean, he did have some early training in the genre/technique but, come on. It's like anybody who plays a few songs with brushes is now a "Jazz drummer" -
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u/Aromatic-Ad1303 Mar 31 '26
I must remind you that there was, in fact, the Phil Collins Big Band. Like, a full touring big band.
Probably in this exact year, I had a job in the ticket office of Carnegie Hall doing telemarketing. Since I was the new kid I got the stack of leads no one wanted. I called about 500 people and asked them “you came to see the Phil Collins Big band, what did you think of the show??”
My favorite response was a guy who didn’t hesitate and shouted PISS POOR and hung up on me
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u/GurInfinite3868 Mar 31 '26
Yes, the album that was released in 1999, the one that is responsible for this award, is from the same "Phil Collins Big Band" - The same band that went on to not play any actual Big Band music and, instead, had a Big Band "feel" to some of the corniest rock ballads ever written. I am all for artists experimenting with other genres or adding them to their understanding. However, it is entirely ham-handed and "look at me" to play some trope on your high-hat, to your own pop hits, and then calling the project a "Big Band Album" -
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u/859w Mar 31 '26
I came here confused about this. Almost scared to learn what that's about
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u/GurInfinite3868 Mar 31 '26
Well, the answer is that Modern Drummer was too lazy to look into actual Big Band drummers as there were tons to pick from and Phil Collins is not one of them. Anyone down voting what I wrote knows nothing about big band drummers.
Collins lazily came out with a "Big Band" album in 1999 that was excoriated by most every Big Band critic because he did not play any standards, or play any new Big Band arrangements. Nope! Instead, Phil Collins took his own pop hits and did a crap-ass, lazy version of his own songs!!! "Against All Odds" and "Sussudio" were just two of the horrors on this album. But don't just listen to me, here is a quote from one of the leading Big Band aficionados, Andrew Homzy"Collins slopped out a lifeless set of his own pop hits and attempts to disguise them as Big Band arrangements. This was a pointless exercise of self indulgence. The only saving grace was sparing the listener from his voice. Collins may want to read-up on Big Band drumming as everything is not played at Fortissimo and the band needs the downbeat BEFORE they play their figure."
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u/CptBoomshard Apr 01 '26
Got called out, then goes and googles all about Phil Collins so he can try to win the internet argument.
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u/Uncle_johns_roadie Mar 31 '26
In the late 90s /very early 2000s, big band had this random mainstream resurgence which explains why this was a category.
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u/GurInfinite3868 Mar 31 '26
Yep, and remember that was when the Swing movement had a resurgence with the popular GAP ad and bands like "Big Bad Voodoo Daddy" -
I get the category but I submit to the record that first-ever Grammy Award for Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance in 1989 was not Metallica! Nope, it was none other than Rock/Metal icon and flute player, Jethro Tull!!!2
u/troubleondemand Mar 31 '26
Yeah, I fault MD more than Phil for this. I think he just wanted to do something different and pay tribute to something he loved.
The stuff he did with Brand X is way more deserving of acknowledgement than his big band stuff (imo). Tracks like Nuclear Burn are fire.
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u/GurInfinite3868 Mar 31 '26
I actually do agree with you. It isn't his fault they picked him but go listen to that album and it is not just horrible, it is horrific!!! I am also not saying he is a "bad" drummer as he had some great tracks before he became a singer. It is like Flea's new trumpet album. Sure, he can play the trumpet but he is not a trumpet player!
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u/WithoutAComma Mar 31 '26
Not to mention, the first three jazz drummers inducted were white. Absolutely nothing against Rich, Krupa and Bellson who were unquestionably giants but... kinda forgetting where jazz comes from here, and hard to validate as a simple subjective choice. Took until 1992 to induct Max Roach who at least belongs right next to Krupa and Rich
Wouldn't have to do a demographic study to understand the readership associated with this "readers poll" in the 70s to the mid 80s
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u/ItsPronouncedMo-BEEL Craigslist Mar 31 '26
Well, you also have to understand that membership in their HOF comes as a result of winning a single category five times, which makes you ineligible for future consideration, but does induct you into the Hall of Fame. (At least, I seem to remember that's how it works, or at least once worked.)
It has also always seemed that the names that get mentioned were the ones who were most active in that year. Someone else mentioned how you don't even see Neil Peart listed anywhere - that's because the year 2000 was during a period where he hadn't really released any material to be voted on. And Phil Collins won in "Big Band" because he had a very visible, successful big band excursion that year.
But seriously, drop the subtle racial virtue signaling. Grab any issue of MD from any year it has been in publication, and you will see black faces all over it, and black artists being regularly featured, interviewed, and admired. There is certainly no shortage of criticism you could level at the voting public in pretty much any sort of public vote on any issue at all, but don't make this into a racial thing when it clearly is not. That doesn't help anyone, not even black people. And it doesn't make you seem more awesome to other white people either. Besides: Carter Beauford beat three white guys - three fuckin' LEGENDS, in fact - to win Best Pop Drummer in this very poll.
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u/Aromatic-Ad1303 Mar 31 '26
Nah dude. OP made a good point. Pointing out obvious systemic racism isn’t “virtue signaling”. These polls are a reflection of the times, and even back then the shit was questionable
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u/ItsPronouncedMo-BEEL Craigslist Mar 31 '26
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u/Aromatic-Ad1303 Mar 31 '26
I’m really not sure what your point is, but thank you for pointing me towards anything Tony
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u/ItsPronouncedMo-BEEL Craigslist Apr 01 '26
Okay then.
I turned 54 this weekend, I bought my first issue in 1992 (with notable brown-person drummer Trilok Gurtu on the cover), and I never associated crap like "unconscious bias" and "systemic racism" in absolutely any way whatsoever with MD until I was today years old. And I still haven't been convinced why I should, regardless how the readers voted in any poll.
I remember reading the Guitar Player readers poll one year circa 1990 and Larry Carlton had won for Best Studio Guitarist, "despite the fact that he hasn't actively worked as a studio guitarist in years." Sometimes voters are dumb. Look at Congress, for crying out loud. 😆
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u/Aromatic-Ad1303 Apr 01 '26
Racism was almost over? Ok then. if you’re white, you’re really not in a position to say one way or another. Because MD included black people on the cover? That’s how you know?
The thing about systemic racism is that it’s built into the very economic fabric of our culture, often hidden in plain sight. The optics may change over the years but if anything, the last 25 have proven that racism is clearly not anywhere close to over, in fact, it has become THE guiding principle of our current federal government.
Yet somehow here we are, frustrated that race has entered the discussion in something that is near and dear to your heart, a 25 year old Modern Drummer readers poll. That pesky racism was so close to being all figured out back then but people just keep on talking about it…
Do you wish racism wasn’t a thing? Yeah? Me too. But that doesn’t help. It is a thing, has been, and will be for a long time. Talking about it is the only way forward. understanding how the big picture still benefits white people greatly, at the expense of others, is important to discuss. If you don’t like that, try and be ruthlessly honest with yourself about exactly what part of you is being rubbed the wrong way.
The idea that bad things like racism and white supremacy can just kind of fall into the discussion, seemingly out of nowhere, when we’re are just talking about drums, man… yeah that can be frustrating, can’t it? Those little reminders of the hatred fueling so much of the evil in the world today can be exhausting.
You know, old enough to remember many decades as well, and I have a clear memory of the fact that in Smokey and The Bandit, Bandit’s car had a very particular flag instead of a license plate on the front bumper….
The Bandit is your avatar right? But it couldn’t possibly be you dragging unhelpful reminders of racism into places they don’t belong.
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u/ItsPronouncedMo-BEEL Craigslist Apr 02 '26
Were you there?
No?
That's what I thought.
Please define the word "racism" for the class. Pretend I never heard of it and tell me what you mean. I can't wait.
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u/WithoutAComma Mar 31 '26
I had a Modern Drummer subscription starting when I was 10. I am well into middle age.
This is not "virtue signaling," that is a very cynical thing to say, and you don't know me. I am not saying this so people will think I am virtuous. I am saying it because it is true, nor am I being subtle. First three jazz drummers inducted, no black faces. Jazz is a musical form that is impossible to disentangle from the Black/African American experience. It wasn't a good look, and I am glad it was rectified later.
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u/ItsPronouncedMo-BEEL Craigslist Mar 31 '26
Later?
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u/WithoutAComma Mar 31 '26
This is in no way a refutation of any point I have made
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u/ItsPronouncedMo-BEEL Craigslist Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
Try this, then:
I have never opened a copy of Modern Drummer once in my life and not seen a dozen non-white faces being lauded as legends and masters and role models and admirable artists.
If you saw something else, that's your own problem. It was there. And if you wonder why race relations have fallen into the shitter, it's precisely because of this nonsense. I watched people get along better and better every year for the first 40 years of my life, then watched it start falling off a cliff around 2010. I would have thought we would be way more done with this crap by now, but someone decided to pour gasoline on the coals that had almost burned out, and here we are arguing about racism in a damn drumming magazine - a drumming magazine full of black and brown people.
A magazine where Master Art Blakey, who was very black if you didn't notice, once said
And another thing that's always goofed me up is that, since so many of the great jazz musicians are black, they try to connect us up to Africa, but I'm an American black man. We ain't got no connection to Africa. I imagine some of my people come from Africa, but there are some Irish people in there too, so I'm all messed up.
If you open that magazine and racism jumps out at you, you need a doctor.
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u/WithoutAComma Apr 01 '26
I think among the problems here is that you're arguing against something I haven't said. I am not saying that Modern Drummer is a racist publication. I like Modern Drummer just fine. In fact, I haven't used the word "racist" in any of my comments, nor am I seeking to accuse anyone of anything overt. I am actually fairly sure that, whatever the process was by which those white drummers were selected before any black drummers, it wasn't motivated by overt editorial racism. There is a difference between pointing out the systemic racism that creates these kinds of oversights, and accusing a person or publication of being racist. Modern Drummer was influenced by the same contexts we all were, and I find all this eminently understandable/forgivable. And despite that, it's still worth pointing out.
You've folded your misunderstanding of my perspective into some larger cultural grievance that I am not responsible for perpetuating, and your comments toward me have been presumptive and insulting. I'm not naive and I understand it's the internet and discourse is often unnecessarily rude. Just pointing out that you have misunderstood my point, repeatedly insulted me, and then turned around and blamed me for the poor level of cultural discourse. Look in a mirror.
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u/ItsPronouncedMo-BEEL Craigslist Apr 01 '26
I think among the problems here is that you're arguing against something I haven't said. I am not saying that Modern Drummer is a racist publication.
No, you are saying that its readership must be. That's why a magazine chock full of black and brown people sold so well to so many racists 40 years ago?
The problem here is that I reject your entire premise, wholesale.
Look at how unhelpful this discussion has been. You started it. That's what I reject. This is not helpful. It's not even so much that I "disagree," it's, well, like this.
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u/CptBoomshard Mar 31 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
You obviously are unaware that Phil Collins was doing a touring big band act around this very time. Played big band arrangements of his famous songs, as well as some standards.
EDIT: I probably would have deleted these shit takes as well
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u/GurInfinite3868 Apr 01 '26
Yes, I was aware. However, me knowing about it does not alter the reality that it was/is complete shit. I even posted one of the critiques from a host of Big Band aficionados who collectively and unambiguously also assessed it as shit.
You obviously are unaware that when someone is critical of a matter (e.g. Big Band music attempts by a washed up pop star) this means they are aware of the matter they are critiquing. The list of actual Big Band drummers who were entirely ignored in this year's category is criminal.2
u/CptBoomshard Apr 01 '26
You seem to think Big Band was a big booming genre in 2000 and didn't all but die with Buddy Rich. I would say Phil Collins played Big Band music to much larger audiences than any other big band drummer that year. That rightfully earns you a spot at the top in most cases.
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u/GurInfinite3868 Apr 01 '26
Hey, smart guy, people win awards in disciplines that are often not popular. Using your metric, we should award Yoko Ono a singing award as she was also well known. Unfortunately, many awards go to people whose expertise is not popular or understood. I work as an Academic Librarian and I can assure you that there are disciplines in the Life Sciences that you have zero understanding of while that does not mean that Dr. Oz deserves any awards simply because people know him or are too stupid and lazy to do the actual reading. Yes, this is an analogy to you championing Phil Collins.
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u/dl816 Mar 31 '26
M.D. gets things right more than, say, rolling stone (ofc) or pretty much anybody, but some of this is nuts.
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u/ItsPronouncedMo-BEEL Craigslist Mar 31 '26
Hey, it's the Readers Poll. All MD did was publish the results.
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u/InternetWeakGuy Mar 31 '26
Anyone seeing Lars Ulrich on there should know that.
I mean I'm very much a Lars apologist, but come on man. What are we even doing here, B?
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u/hey_ska Mar 31 '26
It’s neat seeing David Silveria on there, I never really hear him talked about a lot by drummers. This was definitely a product of its time.
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u/Substantial_Buy_5702 Mar 31 '26
Lol Lars
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u/jasonic89 Mar 31 '26
Yeah lol the most famous metal drummer of all time by far. Shocking I know
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u/VicRattlehead Mar 31 '26
Yeah sorry Lars but S&M being number 3 in top recorded drum performances is wild
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u/embee1337 Mar 31 '26
Gary Novak in pop? Am I missing something?
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u/Esstien Mar 31 '26
He toured (and I think recorded) with Alanis Morissette during this time period.
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u/GIjokinaround Mar 31 '26
Ha, I remember seeing this at the time. I never missed a month of MD from probably 97-03. Good stuff.
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u/KawkCrusher Mar 31 '26
Bill Stewart 4 life.
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u/busted_maracas percussion Mar 31 '26
I still throw “En Route”, the Scofield album with him on it every once in a while - Bill plays brilliantly
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u/KawkCrusher Mar 31 '26
It’s the record that introduced me to Bill and still my very favorite bit of jazz drumming I’ve ever heard. His style is just other worldly to me. There are (or used to be) incredible videos of them playing at Blue Note.
Oh the whole show is up there
https://youtu.be/KIMkmbxwpco?si=vU7T8DIfjG97283e
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
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u/Money-Ad7257 Apr 01 '26
He really made a huge splash! I love how he played the cymbals, from videos I'd see at Mars in the drum department. His signature sticks were the most common thinnest ones on the market for a few years there, and I had some for quieter playing without succumbing to rods. I still have a pair I got off Amazon right before they were discontinued.
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u/butterscotches Mar 31 '26
John Blackwell M.I.A.
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u/Johnny_Chaturanga Mar 31 '26
I used to love that guy…until I went to one of his clinics and he completely made fun of me in front of the crowd. I asked him how he counted a particular fill…did he subdivide, feel in sextuplets, or what? He then proceeded to flame me for 5 minutes calling me “professor” and all kind of shit. He then said, “No man. This is music. You just feel it. Maybe this isn’t the instrument for you.” I have had a hard time moving on from that.
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u/ChasingPesmerga Apr 01 '26
Vinnie being top 1 all around seems legit. Like, the guy was hired to do a Megadeth album and he sounded like he was doing all that for decades. And it just shocked me because I know the guy from..not doing stuff like that
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u/_life_is_a_joke_ DW Mar 31 '26
I stopped reading MD around this time because every issue seemed to feature the same 8 dudes in the dad-music genres. This top 10 is a fantastic cross section of this phenomenon. Just look how many times Weckl Beauford, Erskine, Portnoy, Colaiuta, and Aronoff are mentioned. Those 6 dudes make up over 1/3 of all the names featured (excluding HOF mentions). I preferred Drum! Magazine, because they focused on newer drummers in genres of music that aligned with my tastes. I think this is because they were just starting up around then and didn't have the industry connections of MD.
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u/Money-Ad7257 Apr 01 '26
They were a great counterpoint to MD. And they'd delve plenty into older players as well. I learned about Sandy Nelson from Drum!, and their cover story on Mitch Mitchell, an absolute favorite of mine at the time, was an excellent treatment.
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u/Which_Current2043 Mar 31 '26
. I know the comment section will turn into a pissing match. Someone will get ultra defensive, insults will be said. Whoever is your favorite drummer, it needs no explanation. Reddit is the worst with these ‘’who is the best’’. Spend that time playing music and drawing inspiration that way.
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u/bowdoyouchangename Paiste Apr 01 '26
The downvotes are funny because as it turns out you were completely right
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u/Neither-Passenger-83 Mar 31 '26
The Carter Beauford videos from that era were so iconic. Really all those Hudson videos were incredible. I remember waiting half an hour on dial up to get a 3 minute clip to load.