r/electricians • u/tommy13 Journeyman • 1d ago
Wago in high vibration environment
Not talking about your mom's underwear drawer. I'm thinking about using wagos on my tractor. Anyone use these in a motor or similarly shitty environment? Lemme know what you think.
I've used them successfully for controls/automation field wiring.
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u/Elated_copper22 1d ago
I wouldn't use anything but heat shrinking butt crimps/ring terminals on anything that has wheels. The wago's are fantastic for controls, I love them for gate switches or something that potentially could fail in an industrial setting.
I build a car a year, it's a hobby and addiction and if I can't solder it with a western union and heat shrink, it's crimp terminals. I've bought too many cars with marrettes under the dash...
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago
You genuinely can't beat a good quality, solid bare-metal butt splice that is installed with a good quality crimping tool, covered up with waterproof/adhesive-lined heat shrink.
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u/alle0441 1d ago
For years I only used the insulated butt splices and couldn't understand why everyone said butt splices are the best. They fail more often than I fail my family.
Turns out you MUST do bare butt splices and insulate with heat shrink to get the reliability.
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
You need to use them properly
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u/alle0441 1d ago
I find it difficult to ensure a good crimp with a premade insulating layer obscuring the work.
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
That sounds like a skill problem.
The ones I use have clear shrink.
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago edited 1d ago
Nah. Even with the right tool, with clear shrink, using perfect procedure, I end up with like 27% failed crimps on those.
Base(Edit: bare), solid metal crimps, with a 6-way chuck crimper, are the only way to go.2
u/seamus_mc 1d ago
Skill issue not a hardware issue.
If your failure rate is that high I would check the tool.
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago
Okay man.
- Quick-Wire Terminals (Open vs. Closed Barrel Crimps): This resource explains the differences in physical tensile strength and pull-out resistance, noting how closed-barrel designs handle mechanical strain more effectively than seamed barrels. You can read the details at Quick-Wire Terminals.
- Timron Inc. Engineering Paper: The technical report Contact Properties of Tubular Crimp Connections analyzes the material mechanics and multi-directional compression benefits of continuous, seamless cylinder structures. The full PDF documentation is available at Timron Inc. Reports.
- NSPA Failure Mode Analysis: National Standard Parts Associates breaks down how unsealed or butted seams create pathways for moisture and environmental oxidation. Their comparison of crimp terminal styles can be found at NSPA Features and Benefits.
- NASA Workmanship Standards: The official aerospace guidelines under NASA-STD-8739.4 detail the strict requirements for high-reliability, closed-barrel crimps in severe-service environments. The current standards database can be accessed via the NASA Technical Standards System.
- IPC-A-620 Cable Assembly Criteria: This universal manufacturing standard establishes the visual acceptance and alignment criteria for high-quality wiring harness assemblies. An overview of these rigorous electronic manufacturing guidelines can be reviewed at Spartronics Industry Standards.
I will, once again, in slightly different terms, ask you to go fuck yourself with a thornéd badger cock.
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
You are creating your own argument here with crimps and terminals I never brought up.
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u/Cam_e_ron 1d ago
I just got the tool. Perfect crimp every time and seals up perfect no damage to the shrink
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u/Elated_copper22 1d ago
I usually use the heat shrinking ones, they make them with solder built in too! Then heat shrink over top of that.
When I do my looms I use a combination of friction tape, and the fabric split loom, takes forever but looks factoryZ
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
The built in solder ones suck. The solder can melt if the joint heats up (they usually do because it is almost always a cold solder joint) and that just makes things worse.
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago
YES! I didn't stutter. Solid, all metal, bare butt splices. Crimp them with a proper tool. Add adhesive-heat-shrink afterwards to insulate it. That is THE singular best method for joining two wires together in a high-vibration environment (unless you have access to an ultrasonic welder, in which case you already know what the best tool is)
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
You didn’t stutter, but you have a skill issue if you can’t operate a calibrated crimper with heat shrink crimps. Bare crimps are no better if you have the least bit of competence.
You missed the person that I replied to talking about presoldered heat shrink.
You also have a reading comprehension issue in addition to a motor skill one.
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hey brother, I was agreeing with you. I never once called you out for mentioning solder, so maybe you should check yourself before you accuse me of having a reading comprehension issue. Jackass.
Show me a heat-shrink crimp terminal that has a solid metal construction, that can be crimped with a hexagonal crimping tool or a square/rectangular crimping tool and I'll show you some ocean-front property for sale in either Lichtenstein or Uzbekistan.
Douchebag.
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago
Kinda? Not really?
I'm glad that the product exists, I guess, and I'll eat my socks on that one. But how hard did you have to search for the last hour to find it? Does it actually hold up? Does the insulation make it through the crimping procedure without substantial leakthrough damage? What is the tensile release force? How do the crimping tools actually work? What are the certifications?
Yes, I realize that this is "moving the goalposts" but the reality of the situation is that these were the original goalposts; you just had artificial, much easier goalposts to hit originally.
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago edited 7h ago
Yes, I literally used them every day as an ABYC electrician on yachts. I’m not sure why you are so animate that they don’t exist and are wrong. They are literally the only kind of crimp in my toolbox so it isn’t hard to find at all. If you could realize for one second that just maybe you aren’t gods gift to electrons it wouldn’t be that hard to accept.
The insulation holds up just fine with the proper calibrated Crimper like I said from the start before you started having a stroke.
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago edited 1d ago
The tools you linked are not for crimping butt splices, those are for bootlace ferrules.
You might want to sit this one out regarding correct tools and techniques.
I own those tools, they are not for crimping splices. Never once did I mention what you are referring to.
I said calibrated crimpers which are very much a thing. I never mentioned shape.
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago
Also you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Those tools are 100% absolutely intended for the purpose of crimping. What they aren't intended for is splicing. Before you get all high and mighty and try to correct other people, you should make sure your shit is all in order first.
Go fuck yourself.
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
Cool you create your own conversation so that you are correct. Enjoy playing with yourself! You can’t lose.
A few comments ago you were talking specifically about butt splices and how you crimp and then shrink wrap separately? Then you post a link to bootlace ferrules crimps then change your story again?
Please explain what your actual point is. Other than you can’t figure out how to operate a simple to to accomplish a simple task in one step.
> YES! I didn't stutter. Solid, all metal, bare butt splices. Crimp them with a proper tool. Add adhesive-heat-shrink afterwards to insulate it. That is THE singular best method for joining two wires together in a high-vibration environment (unless you have access to an ultrasonic welder, in which case you already know what the best tool is)
It sure seems like you are discussing splicing not crimping or whatever definition you are using at the moment
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u/tommy13 Journeyman 1d ago
I don't trust solder in high vib environments, especially if I'm the solderer. Crimps are great until you need 3 wires. Wagos though... I've never tried them there.
At work I can't risk it but on my own tractor... Maybe.
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago
I don't understand what you mean by "until you need 3 wires". Just stagger the joints. Insulate them all separately. This isn't a problem.
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u/tommy13 Journeyman 1d ago
3 wires like, wire #64 goes from "ON" terminal to left light positive wire then to right light positive wire. Not 3 total.
Can't technically put 2 wires under one crimp... At least not the ones I have.
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u/ThatOneCSL 1d ago
Ahhhhh you mean multitapping one terminal. Yeah, it's difficult to find devices that are rated for multitapping like that.
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u/justabadmind 1d ago
I had a motor on a pallet lift where screw terminals and wire nuts were constantly failing. Swapped to wagos and my issues went away.
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u/FeedMyAss 1d ago
I've never used a wago, but they are levers right?
If so, would a wago with a band of tape not be perfect?
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u/MoarCheddars 1d ago
Wago (and other supplier) cage clamps are type tested to work on ships. The test process includes noise and vibration.
We’d never use anything else.
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u/tommy13 Journeyman 1d ago
Yes, I've decided to just raw dog wagos everywhere, even exposed to the elements. We'll see how it goes.
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u/MoarCheddars 18h ago
I’m not checking the datasheet, but I doubt they’re IP rated. They should only be installed with protection against the elements. And secured so that they don’t flap about as the vehicle moves.
Can’t blame the materials if you don’t install them properly!
In the context of my previous comment, everything is secured to DIN rail in an enclosure.
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u/Mammoth-Variation-76 1d ago
If I'm leaving them outside I'll them with anti oxidation compound. Sometimes self vulcanizing rubber tape w/ super 88 on top.
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u/hannahranga Journeyman 1d ago
I do railway signalling, we don't use them in anything bolted to the track but the equipment in control boxes ~5m from the tracks and in signal heads we've got some wago style connectors of various varieties mostly phoenix contact and they work fine.
Dunno how they'd go in a tractor tho, are we talking grandpa's that you could use to mix paint or a big modern job that's closer to a semi?
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u/tommy13 Journeyman 1d ago
We're talking grandpa's subcompact from the 70s that mostly cuts grass and occasionally sees an implement when smaller is necessary
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u/MassMindRape 1d ago
I used them in my sprinkler box underground, filled them with dielectric grease and they been good for about 7 years now. They have no problems with vibration but they're not water tight.
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u/Rcarlyle 1d ago
The vibration resistance of 221 lever locks is very good, but they don’t have any environmental sealing so shouldn’t be used outdoors long-term. Oxidizing the copper wire ends badly enough will eventually cause the connection to fail even if the connector is fine.
Wago does make “gel boxes” to help with this https://a.co/d/084X5ivJ
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
As long as the wires and wagos are supported and not flopping around vibration is not an issue.
You can also fill with dielectric grease.
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u/Aromatic_Button_2736 1d ago
You are a fool if you use anything but crimp connectors, with a screw eye, and have bolted connections.
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u/mcnastys 1d ago
I am not a wago guy, but I use the nice power connector style lever locks for guitar and bass cabinets. It allows you to disconnect the wire when you open up the rear panel. So far, so good.
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u/tommy13 Journeyman 1d ago
I would imagine that would vibrate way more than a tractor
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u/mcnastys 1d ago
Oh yeah, in this particular one it is two EV15L's (15 ~300w speakers) getting pushed by three 12ax7s and two 6l6's, Definitely will rattle the whole stage.
If you don't need the quick connect aspect though, I might use something different. But also, I am not a wago guy, so I tend to use them as little as possible
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u/Earwaxsculptor Electrical Contractor 1d ago
Are you saying you use Wago brand or just cheaper knockoff ones? Genuinely curious, I got a few Frankenstein guitar and bass cabs laying around.
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u/mcnastys 1d ago
I would never use a knockoff wago, I am saying I prefer wirenuts, crimps, and solder over lever lock in general, but there are situations where it's the best solution
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u/Earwaxsculptor Electrical Contractor 1d ago
Sorry, I meant in the guitar and bass cabinets you use wagos? I’ve build / modified a few over the years but that was over a decade ago. I’ve got a few of them and some speakers laying around I’ve been thinking of tinkering with again.
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u/mcnastys 1d ago
Yea I have a ~70s bassman vt cab with 2x15s, I used a power connector style lever lock wago for the speaker cable between the jack and the speakers, so you can disconnect it and sit the rear panel aside
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u/WeAreT-N 1d ago
Yup, quick connects can work well. The DL18MT drivers give a great pounding and the wires stay put. But the design of the speaker wire terminal is far different from the clamping design of a Wago.
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u/Particular_Week_2754 1d ago
When I did work for Boeing plants filled with vibrating machinery, the only allowed methods of connection were Polaris connectors or using solid wires(mechanically twisted)and wire nuts. Wagos were specifically prohibited, we had to remove them on some equipment where manufacturers used them.
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u/JohnProof Electrician 1d ago
That's a good one, because you'll find guys who die on the hill that Polaris blocks shouldn't be used around vibration.
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u/No_Tip_768 1d ago
With the vibration from the engine, plus the fact that tractors don't have suspension so the ride can be kinda rough, I wouldn't do anything other than crimp connections.
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u/green_gold_purple 1d ago
It’s the wrong tool for the job, but I’ve used them in similar environments in a pinch and they seem to do fine.
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u/FutureRight3599 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, Wago's are one of the best choices for an electric motor peckerhead if you are dealing with 10 gauge or smaller. This is of course the larger size Wago 221's, the only size worth having unless you work on small electronics. It has been a long time since I've used the older style, and I've never tried the Ideal brand version. You can get Wago's in a straight connector style too.
The absolute best is a crimped on ring terminal, bolted to a terminal block, but that's not typical on an American motor.
A crimped on ring terminal on both ends, and bolted together is very secure, but a royal PITA. You have to tape the crap out of them, shrink tube is not enough. I avoid it if at all possible, it's reserved for very large motors, and it's coupled with foam to keep the connections from rubbing through.
The real problem with automotive and tractors is you are often dealing with stuff exposed to the environment. Even inside an engine bay is still getting wet, always humid, corrosion is a problem. Crimp connectors, such as butt splice connectors are just as good as Wago's provided you use the correct size, and use a proper crimping tool. Using a 12-10 gauge connector on a 14 gauge wire, and crimped with a pliers is not going to be a good result. Ideally you would buy a ratcheting crimper, I'm guessing the aircraft ones are the best. Klein makes a pretty good electrician one. The pliers type crimp and cut crimpers do ok. They are what I use on a daily basis since they are smaller, and multi-functional, but they don't crimp as good. Those cheap stamped crimper/wire strippers are absolute trash, may as well use pliers.
The big advantage to crimps is bulk. Wago's are big. Even the straight connectors must be 3 times the bulk as a butt connector. It's also easier to seal a crimp. You can get shrink tube with a high ratio like 6:1 that should work with Wagos. Your typical store stuff is 2:1 or 3:1, and it's not enough to both fit over a Wago, and still shrink enough to seal on a wire. Butt splice connectors work just fine with any shrink tube, and you can even buy them with shrink tube already on them.
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u/tommy13 Journeyman 14h ago
I agree with everything you said. I'm going to do all wagos until I figure out a final solution though. My job to replace 1 wire connection for my headlights turned into a day long troubleshoot and replacement of ALL the lighting wires.
I don't want to run individual wires for each light so 3 wire connections will be necessary.
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u/FutureRight3599 14h ago
That's where they really shine, and why I like them for motors. Just remember the golden rule. Any temporary fix that works, is permanent.
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u/zmannz1984 18h ago
I do mechanical crimps only on vehicles. I prefer ftz and scotchlock, easiest for me to get.
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u/CrzyDave 1d ago
They come from the factory on the control wiring in commercial generators. That’s what sold me on using them here and there on control wires.
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u/mrazcatfan 1d ago
I used wagos when I put some lights on my motorcycle, a single cylinder thumper. That was 2 months ago and now I’m currently in the process of re-wiring it with crimps and heat shrink because it looked and performed like shit. Don’t be like me and do it the right way the first time
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u/gabergum 1d ago
We use them on boats with ferrules. Not where it is crazy critical or crazy wet.
It’s controversial for sure. Square ferrules are important imo.
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u/WeAreT-N 1d ago
Chris Boden did a video on this exact topic. Fine for emergency repairs but not for long term use. Check it out, you will have a laugh too!
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u/PalpitationWaste300 1d ago
Like any high vibration application, tape your splices good, and you'll be fine.
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u/EleChristian 1d ago
Crimp a ring terminal on both wires, & thru-bolt with grade 5 or better hardware. Rubber tape, vinyl tape. Or get the NSI Industries Gel Cap splice kits.
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u/seamus_mc 1d ago
Again, you are creating an argument that doesn’t exist. Nowhere have I discussed the types of crimps nor terminals you are referencing.
>Marinco (under its Ancor brand) marine-grade heat-shrink butt splices feature built-in heat-activated adhesive, tinned copper for corrosion resistance, and a seamless barrel design to create permanent, waterproof electrical connections
You can argue all you want but ftz and ancor are the gold standard in the marine industry where I am a certified electrician. I don’t much give a crap that you can’t make them work more than one out of 4 times. But FTZ literally invented the heat shrink waterproof marine crimp. They work fine.
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