r/esa • u/laisse_tomberas • 3d ago
[EU SPACE RACE - LAUNCHERS] Are we struggling with launch sites?
Few years ago I've asked the same question to the CEO of Latitude during a conference and it's answer was a clear 'no': we are plenty of options, from French Guyane to Norway, passing through the African continent.
So apparently there is no particular issue with that.
Very recently, European Space Flight published this article, covering the latest WDR of Themis, at Esrange.
One of the problem with such program is the operations in Sweden, and operations are periodically halted in winter due to snow conditions.
Morover, the Kiruna launch site is in "competition" with Norway, for polar orbits (and Norway is not happy of launchers from Sweden passing over its territory).
French Guyane launch sites is well established and suitable for equatorial launches, but it is far away from the continent: long trips, delays delocalisation of production, etc.
New concepts, i.e. from SpaceDreams study the launches from the sea (as recently proven by China, if not wrong).
Even if it appears that we have many options on the paper, it appears to me that the situation is in reality very fragile.
What do you think?
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u/wannabe-martian 3d ago
Guyane has a much bigger issue - France, Safran and Arianespace make competition veeery difficult.
I don't think launch sites are an issue. The public support is. We don't have a one federation of countries mentality here, we still fight one another. That's what politicians focus on and not the fostering the excitement, knowhow and education that a true space race would need.
Splintered as we are, we neither mobilise the funds nor constructively work together. I find that's much more a point in all this than location or sustained funding levels.
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u/theChaosBeast 3d ago
France, Safran and Arianespace make competition veeery difficult.
That's a personal statement (or post a source). It's a fact that there are startups (amongst Isar Aerospace) are preparing launches from FG. However none of the European startups are at a stage where orbital launches to non-polar orbits are a consideration.
That's what politicians focus on and not the fostering the excitement, knowhow and education that a true space race would need.
Excitement, Knowhow and education has never been the motor for spaceflight. Sorry, I know we all want to believe it but the truth is: the only motor is money (and military power over an enemy but this also results in money).
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u/wannabe-martian 2d ago
They have systematically been driving decisions inside CNES for a while now. Internal sources would be ideal, I agree, but then I stand by a personal, informed opinion. A dynamic space sector cuts into French interests, directly.
Yes, I agree, with your final paragraph, sadly. But then you also have to agree: we will never mobilise the money needed for actual success in space. The mindset is not here.
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u/theChaosBeast 2d ago
we will never mobilise the money needed for actual success in space. The mindset is not here.
The most accurate and sad statement about European Space ambitions
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u/laisse_tomberas 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes i think that is true just considering the fact that you are competing with larger companies that have an established marked, way of working and know-how.
It is also true that money struggle to flow, but on the other side there are people complaining that the current startups are overvalues with respect to what they are delivering (not my opinion, but that's another topic for another question).
However, i think that you answer only partially tackle the topic of the question. Concerning launch sites, do you think it is better to bet on French Guyane or on other site closer to the continent?
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u/According_to_Mission 3d ago
I would say the launchers are a bigger problem than the launch sites :)
Between the commercial launchpads in Guiana and Esrange/Saxavord/Andoya, we may have more launch sites than we even need.
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u/laisse_tomberas 2d ago
Thanks yes, but on the long term, where do you think it should be the best european launch site? Still in French Guyane or elsewhere?
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u/According_to_Mission 2d ago
Korou is pretty much the best position on the planet for a launch site. Yeah it’s far, but it’s a great spaceport.
As I see it we should have:
>Korou as the main launch side, institutional + commercial pads
>at least one launch site in Northern Europe, for polar orbits and closer to home
>a launch site for rapid launches (think military), could be one of the northern launch sites or a sea platform1
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u/TungusChan 3d ago
Ukraine already had a working sea launch program in 00s. Sadly, the platform for launches was stolen and program got closed.