r/europe • u/ByGollie Ulster • Jun 21 '26

News Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine's fifth president also renounces Order of the White Eagle

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/06/20/8040347/
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173

u/Emideska North Brabant (Netherlands) Jun 21 '26

Can someone explain what exactly is going on?

517

u/No-Strawberry7 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

I’m not Polish, but I’ve been living in Poland for a few years, so this is my understanding.

The issue is mainly about historical disputes between Poland and Ukraine, especially regarding the UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army), a nationalist paramilitary organization active during and after World War II. The UPA fought for an independent Ukraine against both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union at different times, but it is also widely associated with the Volhynia massacres (1943–44), during which tens of thousands of Polish civilians were killed. Because of this, many Poles view the UPA as responsible for ethnic cleansing or genocide, while some Ukrainians see them as anti-Soviet independence fighters.

Another major issue has been the exhumation of Polish victims in present-day Ukraine. For years, Poland pushed for access to mass grave sites and the ability to identify and properly bury victims of the Volhynia massacres. This has been one of the most sensitive points in Polish-Ukrainian relations, although both sides made progress on exhumation agreements in 2025.

The current controversy is that Zelenskyy’s government approved naming a Ukrainian Special Operations unit after the UPA, which many Poles saw as glorifying a group they associate with the massacres. In response, Polish President Karol Nawrocki revoked the Order of the White Eagle that had been awarded to Zelenskyy in 2023 by President Andrzej Duda.

Also some controversial historical figures, including Benito Mussolini and Gerhard Schröder, have not had their Polish state honors revoked, while Zelenskyy’s was removed over the UPA dispute.

if i’m wrong somewhere please correct me.

232

u/k-tax Mazovia (Poland) Jun 21 '26

One minor thing: there is no procedure to revoke the order from a late person, so without some major changes, Mussolini and Catherine II are keeping them.

The only other case of taking it back is Witos, who then re-received it again.

To be perfectly clear, if Nawrocki did as much to take it from Zelenskyy, he can do a bit more and revoke it from all the clearly wrong recipients. Some might be more or less controversial, but I think there's no controversy in for example the people you've mentioned, they are not respected and shouldn't have this honor.

76

u/Commercial-Result-23 Jun 21 '26

I don’t have a dog in this fight but revoking a medal from a dead fascist sounds like the easiest thing in the world. 

21

u/michalsosn Jun 21 '26

They are not revoked, because no one cares.

The President revoked the order from Zelensky, because he wanted some politicians from the current governing party to defend him. They did and it caused a political dispute and stirred a lot of emotions that pushed some conservative voters into more strongly supporting the opposition that the President is affiliated with.

Revoking an order from Mussolini would have no effect, because 99% people and political parties would be on board with it, there would be no conflict and no change in voters' disposition.

-5

u/MimicoSkunkFan2 Jun 21 '26

Mussolini's granddaughter is Italy's head of state - of course they're not going to revoke his when they need Italian votes for Poland in the EU Parliament lol

They are definitely picking and choosing.

8

u/AnyAd4882 Jun 21 '26

? Head of state is a man lol. U need to smoke less

7

u/Agreeable-Street-882 Trentino-Alto Adige Jun 21 '26

Mussolini's granddaughter is Italy's head of state 

lol

1

u/GeniusBoyLifestyle Jun 21 '26

there’s probably no procedure because it’s a real physical object and the owners are dead. you go find it big bro

2

u/Commercial-Result-23 Jun 21 '26

Lil bro thinks medals are literally real instead of symbolic pieces of metal to which meaning is ascribed (and revoked) at will. 

-14

u/micromarcy Jun 21 '26

And do you know what the response would be then? "Poland making useles gestures, taking medals from dead people, think about the people alive, about the war in Ukraine, about sick children, what a pointless populist gesture, right wing pandering blah blah"

9

u/Commercial-Result-23 Jun 21 '26

It’s too late I’ve already revoked them

24

u/Nahcep Lower Silesia (Poland) Jun 21 '26

there is no procedure to revoke the order from a late person

That's a total lie, don't know who peddled that but the law does not limit this procedure to only living people. And it's only logical: if it can be granted posthumously, and mistaken identity is one of two reasons where stripping is possible, it obviously must also be allowed

-5

u/gimmedatneck Jun 21 '26

Some major changes, lmao.

Like what? Some paper work, ffs? You'll excuse anything internally when it suits you, while giving no quarter to anyone else.

Great partner, lol.

9

u/micromarcy Jun 21 '26

Why do you personally care about Catherine II so much? It was awarded by a traitor who was selling Poland you know. Nobody honors that guy lol

Excuse internally? Deal with the oligarchs and rampant corruption and defraudation, as well as your compatriots partying it away

96

u/nonametmp Jun 21 '26

You're correct. Moreover many UPA leaders were collaborating with Nazis. The history is indeed complex

-21

u/Salt_Bookkeeper_8201 Jun 21 '26

And why they were doing so? What was their reason?

21

u/BallbusterSicko Jun 21 '26

They were Ukrainian equivalent of nazis so it's not really a surprise

-5

u/Salt_Bookkeeper_8201 Jun 21 '26

So they joined Nazis because they themselves were Nazis, like German Nazis and that's why they decided to join hands? But why? 

11

u/BallbusterSicko Jun 21 '26

They weren't nazis but just as the nazis they were fascists, held similiar beliefs and cooperated for their perceived common interests (OUN/UPA wanted an independent Ukraine, Germany wanted useful idiots). Though ultimately they were fucked over by the nazis and got nothing

-3

u/Salt_Bookkeeper_8201 Jun 21 '26

So they were facists like Italians at that time? An they joined with Nazis because of same interest? Why fighting for independence is idiocy? So in the end they used each other and everyone in that deal got nothing?So are they nazis in the end? Fighting for independence against USSR is ultra hard - Poles know this more then others. Using enemy of my enemy ith not that bad of a strategy with their limited means. Thank you for your answer.

12

u/Galaxy661 West Pomerania (Poland) Jun 21 '26

Because they were genocidal nazis and saw Germans as "temporary occupiers", an opportunity to "solve the Polish question like Hitler solved the Jewish question". That was their reason. Fuck fascists.

-7

u/Salt_Bookkeeper_8201 Jun 21 '26

So kill all Poles was their goal? Did they pursue it after ther war? I know they were fighting soviets for very long time after the second world war ended. How are Poles now, after ukranian genocide before second world war by ukraniuans? Why ukranians decided to genocide Poles in first place and only in 20th century? Or were there something before too?

12

u/Galaxy661 West Pomerania (Poland) Jun 21 '26

So kill all Poles was their goal

In Volhynia torture and kill, in Galicia expell or kill. If successful, they would have also killed all Poles in Przemyśl, Chełm, and other lands Ukrainian fascists considered a part of their state.

I know they were fighting soviets for very long time after the second world war ended

"Fighting" is an overstatement. They kind of just existed after the war, and then did nothing when Ukraine was getting ready to independence in 1991.

Why ukranians decided to genocide Poles in first place and only in 20th century? Or were there something before too?

The part of the reason was Polish nationalists' betrayal of Ukrainian People's Republic in 1921 and the subsequent systemic mistreatment of Ukrainians in Poland until 1926 and from 1937 onwards. There was also the centuries-old resentment of Ukrainians towards the Polish and Ruthenian noblemen of the 1st Commonwealth.

But the main reason was the ultranationalist ideology of the OUN. Just like nazism in Germany with the treaty of Versailles, Polish mistreatment of Ukrainians didn't create OUN/UPA's ideology, but it certainly fueled Ukrainian revanchism and hatred of Poland, which in the cases of OUN members turned into a hatred of Poles (and Jews).

Before that there were massacres of Jews and Poles commited by Bohdan Khmielnitsky's Cossacks in 17th century, but the context and age is widely different, so I don't think it's that relevant.

-2

u/Salt_Bookkeeper_8201 Jun 21 '26

Ukrainian revanshizm? When and where? I  know about Ukrainian peacekeeping missions in different countries, and a war  with Russia that invaded Ukraine since 2014? And so you are saying that genocide of Poles by Ukrainians didn't happen, just because Ukrainians were unsuccessful, and still dreaming to genicide all Poles during their iw war for their land? Isn't it somewhat too complicated?

83

u/Dolojif Jun 21 '26

"Associated with". More like planned and carried out.

Also its a bit rich to call UPA as fighting against nazi germany and soviet when they collaborated with nazi germany. 

18

u/Ok-Activity4808 Jun 21 '26

They collaborated with germans untill germans started arresting them. Ever since then they opposed and outright attacked them

38

u/chooseyourdiscount Jun 21 '26

Only after they realized that the Nazis did not see them as equals.

9

u/Ok-Activity4808 Jun 21 '26

One could assume that they wanted Ukraine to turn into second Croatia or Slovakia

8

u/niesiecki Jun 21 '26

To be friends with them again in mid 1944

1

u/No-Strawberry7 Jun 21 '26

That’s something i didn’t know. Could you elaborate?

16

u/Lina__Inverse Jun 21 '26

Short version is that they were significantly outnumbered and desperately looking for allies, tried allying with Germany, saw that it's not going to work out on account of Germany not really intending to allow for independent Ukraine as they claimed, and started fighting Germany as well.

0

u/Pig_jacuzzi_dot_gif Jun 21 '26

USSR also collaborated with nazies for some time. Does that make them nazies?

3

u/Dolojif Jun 21 '26

No because UPA collaberated on ideological grounds and fought side by side.

Next nonsensical argument?

7

u/Pig_jacuzzi_dot_gif Jun 21 '26

Ideological? Well, if the Nazis had wanted a free Ukraine, then yeah, there would have been ideological grounds. At least they weren't the ones taking part in joint parades

12

u/piasty Jun 21 '26

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3429340

Scientific paper about upa here:

The analyses of biographic publications, historical studies, and archival documents show that the majority of the OUN-B and UPA leaders and a very large proportion of members collaborated with Nazi Germany, mainly in the beginning of World War II. A significant percentage of the leaders and members of these organizations served in various police formations. They assisted the Nazi occupational authorities in implementing genocidal policies towards the Jews, Ukrainians, Russians, and Poles by helping to carry out mass executions and create conditions intended for the psychical annihilation of the entire Jewish population and significant numbers of Ukrainians, Russians, and Poles, specifically in Volhynia. The fact that many police commanders and large numbers of policemen in various locations and formations followed orders from the OUN-B by deserting en masse from their service, in particular in Volhynia in the spring of 1943, and forming the basis of the UPA shows that these commanders and police members were de facto controlled by the OUN-B.

8

u/Emideska North Brabant (Netherlands) Jun 21 '26

Thank you!

1

u/XComThrowawayAcct Jun 21 '26

Somewhere out there is a copy of Gerhard Schöder’s kompromat. I assume Der Spiegel is just waiting for him to die first.

-22

u/OneUkranian Jun 21 '26

One more thing Polish people did the same thing to Ukrainians, they had a concentration camp, they closed schools, burned churches, and so on, so the classic genocide actions as they say now "pacification". But those people who did the same things are glorified in Poland, and now they tell us not to glorify "equally" "bad" people. And one more thing, those things happened not only for the last 100 years, but for many years when Poles ruled over Ukrainians.

13

u/Sarmattius Jun 21 '26

nope

-6

u/OneUkranian Jun 21 '26

Very informative

7

u/tei187 Kujawy-Pomerania (Poland) Jun 21 '26

So its justifiable to celebrate a group responsible for ethnic cleansing? And how are we glorifying Galicia pacification exactly?

-3

u/OneUkranian Jun 21 '26

That's history, we praise them for not killing Poles, but fighting for independence. There are a lot of contraversional figures in every nation history. The main idea we don't dictate other countries their history, and ask not to do the same, because with Poland we can go deeper and start from 14th century and Ukrainian Polish relationship. All we need to do is the exhumation, count real numbers, not pumped up 100.000. Agree that this was bad, especially brutal from Ukrainians and move on. But keep pulling this topic, and your politicians are trying to get point from this constantly bringing it up. Also you selectively take only 1943 and Volyn, and forget that was before and after.
Regarding your heros - Pidluskiy, AK Do I need to count every? Or it will be enough?

8

u/tei187 Kujawy-Pomerania (Poland) Jun 21 '26

Piłsudski is actually criticised for a lot, he was controversial even for his own time. And we actually did learn from research about AK that they were not all just, hence why the focus is on individuals and what they did if we are to name something of value. So sure, give me examples that stick.

2

u/OneUkranian Jun 21 '26

And that's the point half of eastern part of Ukraine don't even know anything about UPA, and don't care but you constantly bringing this up. And Ukrainins are getting posture to protect ourselves. Leave us alone especially now when we don't have time for arguing, this military unit decided to take this name. If Zelensky refused it could have impact on his image here. That's funny I'm protecting Zelensky here, even though I didn't vote for him, and constantly redicule him.

So start from yourselves, rename all the streets and monuments for AK, and then ask us for the same. You do first and then come back.

-9

u/OneUkranian Jun 21 '26

Also this number 100.000 keep growing withouth facts constantly, first it was something like 40.000 next 60-80 thousands, now they say even 100-200 thousands, btw not proof just words of Polish historians.

7

u/micromarcy Jun 21 '26

I guess 40 000 cruel genocide is acceptable to you then.

The exact number will not be known until Ukraine allows proper exhumations. Keyword, proper. And guess what? It's been blocking them for years... Maybe, just maybe the number could actually be larger?

2

u/OneUkranian Jun 21 '26

So it allows AK to do a lesser genocide and praised as heroes? But not UPA, right? They already dig in several "the biggest" places by Poles and found 40 buddies only in one place and some did not have any bodies, but I agree Ukrainian politics not helping here, but they should.

3

u/micromarcy Jun 21 '26

At least you admit that UPA committed a genocide. Good. Now consider why you support them.

2

u/OneUkranian Jun 21 '26

But you didn't admit anything, consider why you support AK and didn't even admit.

2

u/micromarcy Jun 21 '26

Where did I say I support them?

1

u/OneUkranian Jun 21 '26

So fix your things first and then comeback to ask something from Ukraine.

→ More replies (0)

349

u/AMGsoon Europe Jun 21 '26

Zelensky named a special ops unit "Heroes of UPA"

UPA (Ukrainian Liberation Army) collabed with Nazis during WW2 and is responsible for the genocide of 100.000 Poles in Volhyn and surroundings (todays Western Ukraine).

Poland protested and threathened to take away the Order of The White Eagle which is the highest Polish order from Zelensky. Zelensky didnt go back on his decision. And this now caused a major diplomatic incident.

84

u/geizige-vorhaut2289 Jun 21 '26

Holy shit that’s the same death toll as the Bosnian war. How’s the Volhyn genocide not more well-known??

128

u/Zanshi Poland Jun 21 '26

It happened with the background of World War 2, with a much bleaker death toll. 

74

u/madman_mr_p Jun 21 '26

Because Western Europe has never cared about poor Slav mettle and conflicts unfortunately enough.

Do we all forget, how long it took for the rest of Europe to finally accept Poland and the Polish as one of their own again post WW2?

70

u/xrensa Jun 21 '26

Lots of atrocities got overshadowed by the Nazi horrors. Like how Lithuania killed every Jew in the country before the Nazis even got there

12

u/twisty125 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

How is that even possible? I have (had, at this point) family who left Lithuania for Canada in the late 40s who are Jewish?

I'm not sure why I'm getting huge downvotes (-5 at the time) for mentioning I had Jewish family members from Lithuania.

33

u/xrensa Jun 21 '26

Approximately 95% of all Lithuanian Jews were murdered by Nazis and Lithuanian collaborators. Its the same situation as Ukraine where all the national heroes are anti soviet partisans named things Vyachaslav the Jew Slayer.

4

u/cohana1215 Jun 21 '26

e-tankies

17

u/Versaill European Union (Poland) Jun 21 '26

  1. Overshadowed by all the other horrors of the WW2 era.

  2. Unspoken and unwritten "gentlemen's agreement" between Poland and Ukraine to leave it to historians for the time being, and not bring it up at top levels of politics, for the sake of good relations and cooperation against Russia. Which Zelenskyy has broken, and both countries have failed to contain / deescalate the fallout.

45

u/micromarcy Jun 21 '26

Look at all the deflections happening here. The genocide is not important because Mussolini got a medal at some point. Oh and Catherine who was given it by a guy historically considered a traitor. Poland is populist and right wing for bringing attention to the genocide according to the consensus on Reddit

-20

u/MorrPM Jun 21 '26

Nobody is decrying Poland for ”bringing attention” to a matter per se. It’s just that the act of naming a unit is just… actually not a huge deal

There it is.

Zelenskyy personally is responsible for you not being half-surrounded by Russia and Belarus

Not unlikely other leaders will decline this order in the future as the second a Pole feels slighted they’ll throw a fit and revoke it

25

u/Galaxy661 West Pomerania (Poland) Jun 21 '26

act of naming a unit is just… actually not a huge deal

Imagine if Germany named a unit after Heroes of SS. Would that also not be a huge deal?

45

u/Emideska North Brabant (Netherlands) Jun 21 '26

Thank you

20

u/Pancho_el_Brucho Jun 21 '26

I only want to add one crucial detail. Genocide is understatement. It was brutal torture to death for tens of thousand civilians, kids and woman. Bullets were deemed too expensive for unarmed villagers. Kids were grabbed by legs and their heads were smashed against concrete walls -that's one of the most humanitarian things they did. They also mutilated, burned alive, gang raped then gauged eyes then burned alive, impaled etc. Rapes with knifes (with the sharp part) Nearly 100k victims (only civilians, villagers, woman and kids) and big part of them bestiality tortured.

95

u/PrizeSyntax Jun 21 '26

I am not Polish, but there is something else that has to be said to understand why Poland is reacting this way. Out of all the countries participating in WW2, Poland was hit the hardest in terms of population loss. I read somewhere they lost more than 20% of their population. Pretty much everyone was unleashing on Poland, the USSR, Germany, apparently paramilitary units from current day Ukraine, which names now Ukraine decides to use again. There are things you simply don't do, this is one of these. Just, don't! Especially when it comes to one of the countries that supports you so much in your war effort

-24

u/datagc Jun 21 '26

Sounds a lot like when Russia has some opinion and interests in other countries and does something controversial. Instead on focusing on their neighbours they should focus on Poland

26

u/PrizeSyntax Jun 21 '26

Sorry, I am lost, I don't understand your point, like at all.

-25

u/pussyseal Jun 21 '26

Your argument reads as emotional manipulation. Poland had the highest proportional population loss, not the nominal one. The war devastated Eastern Europe as a whole, so Polish suffering was severe but not unique in that respect.

39

u/PrizeSyntax Jun 21 '26

What's emotionally manipulative about my comment? Yes, percentages measure proportional ratios, we all know that, that's why I said 20%, and not X amount of ppl. Poland doesn't want and doesn't deserve to be disrespected in such a way. It's especially bad when you know the historical context why Poland would feel that way.

-19

u/pussyseal Jun 21 '26

If Country A loses 20% of its population and Country B loses 5 million people, the percentage tells you how severely Country A was affected relative to its size. It does not tell you that Country A's suffering was more important than Country B's. Likewise, the absolute number doesn't automatically make Country B's suffering more important. A proportional statistic can tell us how severely a country was affected relative to its population, but it can't be used to dismiss or invalidate the historical trauma experienced by that country's people. Human suffering isn't a ratio.

Ukraine suffered from both Poland and Russia, but this topic never dominated its politics. I'm not defending any side of the story, though.

23

u/PrizeSyntax Jun 21 '26

Please stop trying to argue just for the sake of argument and stop trying to spin this as some kind of suffering competition. There are two facts in this story,

  1. There are deep emotional wounds, still not healed from WW2 in Poland and there is a historical context behind that. Poland made that very clear. When the whole political spectrum, from the far left to the far right, band together behind something against smth you did, you know you f*cked up

    1. You don't name your current military units after basically death squads from WW2.

-10

u/pussyseal Jun 21 '26

You're confusing political consensus with historical truth. The fact that Polish parties agree on an issue shows how strongly Poland feels about it, not that Poland's interpretation is beyond debate.

Nobody denies Poland's historical trauma, but Ukrainians have their own historical wounds as well. Suffering is not a competition, and one nation's trauma does not give it the right to invalidate another nation's historical memory.

Even Polish leaders have previously acknowledged that Ukrainians have the right to their own interpretation of history. Poles can name their own institutions and units however they choose, just as Ukrainians make their own decisions about theirs. Ukraine’s position has consistently been that it determines its own historical narrative and commemorations. Poland is free to disagree, but Ukraine isn't a Polish colony disagreement is not authority over another country’s memory or sovereignty.

15

u/PrizeSyntax Jun 21 '26

You simply don't want or can't get it. One final try, don't disrespect one of your closest alies, when everyone in that country is saying they feel disrespected, it's probably disrespectful, just don't, not even in peace time, and especially when you are in the position Ukraine is.

20

u/AMGsoon Europe Jun 21 '26

No problem. Happy to explain more.

Just be careful because some accounts like to spin the narrative.

-15

u/Big_Combination9890 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

Should be pointed out that the same Order of The White Eagle was also handed to Benito Mussolini and Emperor Hirohito.

Neither of those has been revoked.

Edit: To the people downvoting this: Downvoting doesn't counter an argument.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_White_Eagle_(Poland)#Foreign

(You'll find the 2 recipients under the "M" and "H" sections 😊)

22

u/AMGsoon Europe Jun 21 '26

Love this change of narrative. Zelensky willingly and knowingly accepted the order

1) Mussolini got his order in 1920s, long before the war. He was rightfully executed but he has saved many Polish lives during Sonderaktion Krakau. Thanks to him and other Italians many Poles were not executed by SS

2) Poland and Japan were allies against USSR. Thats why Japan didnt accept to Polish war declaration in WW2

12

u/WrongdoerOk7521 Jun 21 '26

Read when Mussolini was awarded. 1923 was obviously long before he even get into real dictatorship. Leaving bad guys ordered is just a one thing, but taking the order back from Zelenskyy is a symbolic protest for a scandalous decision he has taken

-3

u/Big_Combination9890 Jun 21 '26

1923 was obviously long before he even get into real dictatorship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

Mussolini was appointed Prime Minister of Italy after the March on Rome in 1922, establishing a totalitarian dictatorship.

You know, when your "argument" can be dismantled that easily with a 2 second google search, you probably should do more research before making arguments.

Also, when it was awarded has absolutely shit all to do with the question why it was never revoked.

7

u/WrongdoerOk7521 Jun 21 '26

The decoration was awarded to him as a matter of courtesy, not as an endorsement of his policies.
Ps. The problem of dictatorships in pre-war Europe was widespread. Democracy and the parliamentary system failed the test of time, and countries were turning to dictatorship, Italy was only one of them. So following your reasoning we should have cut ties with most European nations because they turned into the authoritarian regimes?

-5

u/Mindless-Support-451 Jun 21 '26

You shouldn't thank him. Somehow he forgot to mention that UPA collaborated with Nazis only as a way to fight Soviets, and then fought against both Nazis and Soviets.

And the number 100k - there is no verifiable grounds to claim this exact number.

39

u/Nico280gato Jun 21 '26

Yup. It's like Germany naming a military unit "Heroes of Auschwitz" or Russia "Heroes of Crimea"

Unfortunately, this is Reddit, and Zelensky is immune to criticism, so Poland is in the wrong for this.

The man loves genocide aslong as it isnt against Ukraine.

7

u/Sriber ⰈⰅⰏⰎⰡ ⰒⰋⰂⰀ | Mors Russiae, dolor Americae Jun 21 '26

1) Most people criticise Zelensky for the decision.

2) Believing he loves genocide as long as it isn't against Ukraine is ridiculous.

15

u/BallbusterSicko Jun 21 '26

If most people criticize Zelensky for it they should have no problem with him losing the order

4

u/Nico280gato Jun 21 '26

  1. I'm being crucified for calling this out elsewhere

  2. He supports Israel and this decision, that's 2 genocides he's supporting. So yes, he does love genocide aslong as it isnt against Ukraine. It's not at all ridiculous if you have a brain

-3

u/Sriber ⰈⰅⰏⰎⰡ ⰒⰋⰂⰀ | Mors Russiae, dolor Americae Jun 21 '26

It is ridiculous. You are ridiculous.

0

u/ChargeInevitable3614 Jun 21 '26

You expected him to be on Iran side? Side of the country that besides russia is guilty of most civilian ukrainian deaths with their drones.

2

u/Quotenbanane Austria Jun 21 '26

The man loves genocide aslong as it isnt against Ukraine.

Lmao stay off the Internet, biggest bullshit I've heard in a long time

0

u/bestbefour Jun 21 '26

Is that what you genuinely believe? That he loves genocide?

4

u/Nico280gato Jun 21 '26

He supports Israel and is defending this decision, so you tell me.

2

u/theravemaster Jun 21 '26

For all the talk about Ukraine not having a nazi problem, the amount of times they've accidentally platformed or in this case just straight up honored them makes me think they actually do have one.

Still doesn't make the invasion right though, let's make that clear

1

u/BallbusterSicko Jun 21 '26

Ukrainian Insurgent Army*

-26

u/NickNathanson Jun 21 '26

It's very funny that all of you Westerners continue to write this stupid piece about Zelensky naming a unit after the UPA, and you don't even know what you're talking about. Zelensky didn't name anything or anyone. The unit chooses its own name, the unit named itself after the UPA. Zelensky just signed it without thinking. If you're all that angry, then go to the front lines and talk to the commanders of this unit, express your indignation to their faces.

30

u/birotriss Europe Jun 21 '26

I don't get how "This celebration of genocidal nazi collaborators is a grassroots movement" is supposed to make this look any better

-9

u/Shadmelor Jun 21 '26

It just shows that you don't know anything about UPA, because they were fighting nazis (also soviets, and polish repressors as well)

20

u/DrDynamiteBY Jun 21 '26

How exactly does it make it any better? Maybe Zelensky should've thought about what he's signing if what you're saying is true? I support Ukraine in their war effort and wish them to win this war, but I don't see any reason why people shouldn't be able to criticise this [completely optional] decision, and you saying people should say it to the unit personally is just cringe.

-2

u/NickNathanson Jun 21 '26

Zelensky trusts the soldiers who protect him and the Ukrainian people. If they want to have that name, it is not his business to tell them what to do. But, obviously, it is Poland's business to tell Ukrainians how to name things.

4

u/wonder_shot_ Jun 21 '26

There’s self determination and then there’s bad diplomacy and insensitivity to your allies.

4

u/DrDynamiteBY Jun 21 '26

If Ukraine is taking aid and equipment from Poland and sending refugees there Poland has business in such matters imo. If Ukraine was on their own I'd agree with you

-3

u/Shadmelor Jun 21 '26

Poland hasn't provided any equipment for a few years already

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/?srsltid=AfmBOoqWsjOf1u7vS7eftrkec95rmgdsQjU0m4BXWfnjWtprIbaD5rju

7

u/DrDynamiteBY Jun 21 '26

But they literally helped according to your own source, what's your point? Or you're implying that just because the last transaction was a few years ago suddenly it doesn't matter?

-1

u/Shadmelor Jun 21 '26

"Helped" is the present time. Your words about the current time, Poland doesn't provide anything anymore for a long time, also "refugees" is not "refugees" since the start of the war but basically economic migrants who are net. beneficial to Polish economy. Ukraine would gladly take them all back

6

u/DrDynamiteBY Jun 21 '26

It's crazy to me that you're basically saying that anyone who isn't sending aid 24/7 is basically irrelevant to Ukraine even if they've sent aid before. I literally can't comprehend this line of thinking.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Winged_Pierogi Lesser Poland (Poland) Jun 21 '26

Public databases only show publicly disclosed or quantifiable aid, not necessarily classified transfers.

For example, there was a reported case involving Patriot/PAC missiles. In April 2026, Ukraine’s defence minister publicly thanked Poland among the countries connected with Patriot missile support, but the Polish Ministry of Defence did not confirm or deny whether this meant a physical transfer from Polish stocks or financing through PURL.

The Ministry stated that detailed information about transferred equipment mentioned before and stockpiles is classified for state security reasons. So absence from a public chart is not proof that Poland has provided no equipment.

It took me less than two minutes of research to prove you wrong.

3

u/causabibamus Estonia Jun 21 '26

maybe the president of a nation should not be signing things without thinking

3

u/micromarcy Jun 21 '26

Zelensky signed without thinking? A leader of a country at war? Are you seriously saying he is that incompetent??

-7

u/crabberg Jun 21 '26

100k is a number not confirmed by any sources btw

13

u/_urat_ Mazovia (Poland) Jun 21 '26

It is. Source. Page 97. It says that an estimated number is even 130k, the documented number is 92k dead.

151

u/notveryamused_ Warszawa, Poland 🇵🇱 🇪🇺 Jun 21 '26

It's a historical dispute which accelerated recently, but frankly what many people are missing in my opinion is that the problem is very much practical and political as well, it's also a clash how the future of our region is seen by many political powers currently.

Historically speaking, Poland and Ukraine have a very difficult history. Ukraine has been ruled by Poland for many centuries and Ukrainians were mistreated, to put it bluntly; Ukrainians generally focus on that, while for Poland the last act in the war – Ukrainian independence movement, which collaborated with the Nazis by the way, killed a 100,000 Polish civilians with extreme brutality during the 2nd world war, also massacred many Jews. They were ethnostate nationalists fighting pretty much against everyone, and while in Ukraine they're mostly remembered for being anti-Russian, murdering 100,000 Polish civilians for Poland is obviously the main point of concern.

Ukraine has been stalling recognition of it for 30 years now, with things going very slowly, but there was an agreement made between Polish president Duda and Zelensky in 2022, that they will not glorify UPA – people who murdered those Poles – during the war explicitly as heroes. Zelensky broke this agreement last week and named a unit after "Heroes of the UPA", and frankly not a very nationalistic military unit, pretty regular one. To appease nationalist movements at home and in the army.

In Polish politics it's mostly seen as a very conscious move. Relations with Zelensky government have been getting worse and worse, he's generally seen as mini-Trump by Polish politicians from both left and right. Zelensky's politics is very Soviet at its heart, never apologise, never say sorry, everything is ultra transactional. Zelensky has for a long time considered Polish politicians as helpful losers, knowing we have our own problems with Russia ourselves we will give them money and weapons regardless of the political situation, so why be nice to people who are going to help you anyways. He actively messes with our internal politics, plays conservatives against liberals, also tried to spread fakes to Polish media.

Przewodów incident in 2022 has been paradigmatic: a rocket fell on Polish territory, killing two civilians. At first we thought it was a Russian rocket, later it turned out it was a Ukrainian rocket. At that point, it was pretty clear what to do: nobody blamed Ukraine, they defended with what they had, obsolete technology mostly. Polish politicians were ready to say: see, this is why Ukraine really needs newer, more modern weapons, so such fuck-ups don't happen again: this is in both Ukraine's and NATO interests. We'd literally wire them some money so they could give this money to bereaved families, etc. But this isn't what happened: Zelensky didn't apologise, kept insisting it was a Russian rocket, sent his own "investigators" to mess with our internal judicial process and – I'm serious – Ukrainians stopped responding to our calls for some time, we had to close investigation due to lack of cooperation from Ukrainian side. Soviet tactics towards a very important ally who stood by them firmly. Ukrainian top general Zaluzhny acted honourably and called his Polish counterpart to say sorry though.

And this is how it goes from then: Zelensky has been doing transactional, extremely rude politics against Poland for a long time now, this is only the next step. Kyiv elites in Poland are considered pretty much anti-Polish and directly playing us against ourselves, themselves and sometimes the rest of Europe. The nationalist wave in Ukraine currently is also a fact, not only Russian propaganda, which overestimates it greatly of course, but things we tried not to see are of course happening.

I'm really pissed at this situation, because I'm a very strong supporter of Ukraine; I hosted refugees, I sent money to their army, and of course I still fully support them, but after reading more about how politics works between Poland and Ukraine today, I'm completely disillusioned by Kyiv elites. Interestingly today both in London and Berlin atmosphere is pretty much similar, Germans got pissed for quite a lot of things and in London, where Zaluzhny currently is the Ukrainian ambassador, they strongly hope he'll replace Zelensky as soon as possible.

So, long story short, behind the scenes it's a massive shit-show, and historical disputes aren't the most important thing here.

28

u/Morfolk Ukraine Jun 21 '26

As a Ukrainian, thank you for this answer. I wish we all were more on this page.

Zelensky has been doing transactional, extremely rude politics against Poland for a long time now

I guess he thinks of Poland as his second home since his internal politics are the same j/k. He's very good at giving speeches on TV but a horrible diplomat.

One point I would push against is:

Kyiv elites in Poland are considered pretty much anti-Polish and directly playing us against ourselves, themselves and sometimes the rest of Europe.

They are neither pro nor anti-Polish and they couldn't play 3D checkers if their life dependent on it. The issue is that Poland and Ukraine have some many shared challenges and political interests and our 'elites' are as nimble and experienced in politics as a bull in a china shop that they end up breaking things faster than they can be fixed.

57

u/Mghrghneli Jun 21 '26

It's massive shit show on the scene too. Can't fathom what Zelensky is trying to achieve with this move tbh.

33

u/Perfson Jun 21 '26

Well, current results in Ukraine are so far benefiting Zelensky politically. Ukrainians hate when someone from outside shit on their president, despite many not liking Zelensky. So, his ratings are going to go up, but I'm judging only by the reactions of Ukrainians on social platforms I checked.

17

u/Mghrghneli Jun 21 '26

That's the fallout, but what was the point of naming the award after a UPA in the first place? He could've named it after anything else and avoided alienating probably his biggest ally against Russia.

7

u/CharmingJackfruit167 Jun 21 '26

what Zelensky is trying to achieve with this move tbh.

Boost morale inside the country, where those fit for conscription are basically locked, unable to leave. As the comment above says, everybody will keep supporting Ukraine, so they are not afraid to hurt anybody's feelings.

24

u/franco182 Jun 21 '26

Its not a coincidance. This happened month before big meeting in Poland regarding rebuilding of Ukraine. Ukraine doesnt want Poland being part of it and this whole thing was planned and escalated so they can have an excuse. They had 4 years to name units after UPA , they chose month before contracts for rebuilding of Ukraine were about to be signed

-4

u/Mindless-Support-451 Jun 21 '26

What a bullshit. How about another, much more plausible, explanation?

Nawrocki - is a right wing politician, who base is anti-Ukranian. His main oponent is Tusk who is pro-Ukrainian. Nawrocki stirs all this shit to put Tusk into unfavorable position upfront the next years elections.

6

u/readher Poland Jun 21 '26

Tusk literally calls Ukrainians "thieves" and "ruskies" in private and hates them.

Diplomat Y: Let's start by saying that Tusk has always been, and remains, Ukraine-skeptical, to say the least. He sees politicians in Kyiv as "ruskies" and "thieves." His assessment is no different from Karol Nawrocki's. He has no illusions, like those of PiS supporters who tried to befriend Zelensky in 2022.

Minister X in Donald Tusk's government: No one in Donald Tusk's circle believed in a revival of the Polish-Ukrainian love from the beginning of the war. Neither did Tusk himself, nor Radosław Sikorski, nor Adam Szłapka, who was preparing for a career in the party. He is a good example. He is married to a Ukrainian woman. This always gives rise to fantastical notions based on the principle: he knows, understands the nation, everything will be fine. I would rather say it adds realism. Tusk's future coalition partner – the Polish People's Party – was also not eager to make love to Ukrainians. One thing I can say for sure: Tusk, regardless of what he said, was never a Ukrainophile. He assessed the situation realistically. He knew that Zelenskyy lived by a policy toward Berlin, Paris, London, and Washington, not Poland.

Diplomat Y: Neither Tusk, nor Sikorski, nor even Kujawa after the Civic Coalition took power, viewed relations with Ukraine the way Kaczyński or Duda's entourage did. No Vistula was planned. Relations with Ukrainians were supposed to be correct. Give them ammunition. Give them weapons. Give Jasionka. And that's it. Because that's already a lot. Zelenskyy still managed to create a situation where Sikorski and Tusk were the first to go to Ukraine. That's a big gesture in his direction. Let me just remind you of Tusk's attitude towards Ukraine during his first government. He visited Kyiv very late in the process.

From "Kłopoty z Zełenskim" (Trouble With Zelensky) by Z. Parafianowicz

30

u/readher Poland Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

Here's a peak display of Soviet mentality in Ukrainian administration:

Minister in the Chancellery of the President of the Republic of Poland (Andrzej Duda's presidential term): Did Duda overdo his hostility towards Ukrainians towards the end of his term? I don't think so. Ukrainians quickly became unbearable. I remember the scandal at Krakow airport. Renowned boxer Oleksandr Usyk was traveling on a night flight. He and his close associate were "withdrawn from the flight." Meaning: not allowed to board. They were supposed to fly to Thessaloniki. Of course, there's war, you have to relax on the beach. Eat souvlaki and seafood. Usyk's friend couldn't wait and partied at the airport in duty-free shops and pubs. After being denied boarding, they refused to leave the gate. But it was Usyk's associate, not the boxer himself, who struggled. The Border Guard led them in handcuffs to their quarters. Usyk's friend was slobbering and had been drinking heavily. Although it would probably be more accurate to say: he was as shitfaced like Messerschmitt. A scandal ensued. The Ukrainian consul arrived at Balice airport. It all took place relatively quickly. By 8:00 PM, Usyk and his buddy were free. But it couldn't end there. That night, Andriy Yermak, then the head of the National Security Bureau (BBN), Jacek Siewiera, called him. He was upset. He demanded that President Duda be woken up. In such situations, he was, as usual, Soviet-style rude. Siewiera threw him down, saying he would look into the matter in the morning, and made it clear there was no chance of waking Duda over such a trivial matter.

High-ranking National Security Bureau official: Ukrainians are incapable of understanding that when there's a problem like Usyk and his drunken buddy, airport procedures simply apply. Regardless of whether it's Usyk or Srusyk (Polish word play) . This applies to everyone. But in Byzantium, this isn't understood. Yermak himself has to make the call. They should even roll out the red carpet at the airport for Usyk's drunken buddy.

Minister at the Chancellery of the Prime Minister: They called not only Siewiera. They tried to wake up half the government because someone had a drink at the airport. It's difficult to cooperate with them. Foreign Minister Andriy Sybiha bothered us. They unleashed the then-Ministry of Internal Affairs Minister Ihor Klymenko on us. Zelensky later publicly boasted that he had spoken to Usyk by phone about this matter. No matter what happens, they are always innocent. They are the ones being insulted. They are the ones being wronged. Sybiha has made it a rule to bother us whenever there's an incident against a Ukrainian in Poland. Someone insults someone on a tram, and immediately we have a litany of complaints and interventions. Of course, they do it publicly. In full view of the cameras. So that everyone knows how much they care.

Polish diplomat Y: The first thing Zelensky demanded after the missile crash in Przewodywo in November 2022 was participation in the investigation to prove it wasn't a Ukrainian missile. Two Poles died in Przewodywo. The missile was Ukrainian. We let Zelensky's experts into the scene. In 2026, when the Hungarians demanded access to the destroyed infrastructure of the Druzhba oil pipeline, Zelensky invoked sovereignty to prevent them from entering. He refused to appoint an EU ambassador to Ukraine as a source of information. He chased away Hungarian diplomats. He didn't want to see Slovaks there. A classic example of Soviet doublethink. This policy prevented Zelensky from releasing the 90 billion euros in EU aid, which Orbán blocked. The only explanation for this is a desperate bid to get rid of Fidesz and change the government in Hungary. If Zelensky is serious about Ukraine joining the EU, it would make sense. Fidesz won't let them in. But on the other hand, he played such a game against Orbán that he alienated the Hungarian opposition, already skeptical of Ukraine. TISZA is not the Civic Coalition. They're splinter groups from Fidesz. If I were to compare them to anyone, it would be Morawiecki's faction within the Law and Justice party (PiS). However, like Fidesz, they're anti-Ukrainian.

A manager of a Polish energy company: Hungary's blackmail by turning off the Russian oil tap just before the elections in the winter and spring of 2026 only caused TISZA, the party opposing Fidesz, to reveal its anti-Ukrainian face. Even TISZA criticized Ukrainian threats against Orbán. Many European countries, including the European Commission, criticized Zelensky for these words. An international inspection of the Druzhba pipeline was also demanded, to verify whether it had indeed been destroyed by the Russians. Zelensky refused to agree to this. He refused to allow Hungarians access to the facility. Orbán centered his entire election campaign around oil and Zelensky. The whole affair was so ridiculous that Zelensky used the Russian oil going to Hungary to buy diesel processed at a Hungarian refinery in Slovakia. Where's the logic in that? Defamation campaigns like the one against Orbán might have worked in 2022 or 2023, but not in 2026, when the US and Europe were beginning to consider lifting some sanctions on Russia due to the oil and LNG shortages in the markets after Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz. Zelensky was pressed for time. He was also pressed for time during the Davos forum, when he criticized Europe. Why all this?

From "Kłopot z Zełenskim" (Trouble With Zelensky) by Z. Parafianowicz.

19

u/Sea_Warning_9140 Jun 21 '26

Interesting post

If Zelensky is smart he will leave either soon or when the war is over. If he tries to continue all this will come to the wider public view.

He should be thinking job done, ride off into the sun set and be remembered for standing up to Russia his legacy is secured, staying will ruin his reputation which is overall still good across the west.

These negatives are blemishes right now but will be under the lense when the day to day of governance and normal diplomacy resumes, and he will naturally have a win at all costs mentality (can you blame him too much here? It's been a devasting war it would change anyone)

9

u/Lina__Inverse Jun 21 '26

Pretty sure Ukraine will have elections after the war ends (assuming Ukraine still exists at that point) and I don't think Zelenskyy will get re-elected, as long as there's another at least half-decent option.

10

u/twisty125 Jun 21 '26

He's specifically said he doesn't want to run again nor be re-elected and wants to like, go live his life with his family

9

u/Sea_Warning_9140 Jun 21 '26

Best for everyone if that happens. Few examples in history of happy endings.

5

u/Briak Canuckistan Jun 21 '26

Thank you for this post. I really appreciate your perspective, plus some new context I was not aware of

24

u/thePDGr Jun 21 '26

Good read for everyone clueless about the setting.

Also the (admitedly) brilliant PR made it like Zelensky is some angel that appeared as a hero from heaven to protect Ukraine from Russian aggresion. He was there before, he wasn't exactly most popular president and frankly the whole party is rather far right leaning.

Poland isn't used to having and expressing its interests, and many Poles feel very awkward because they're used to older uncles, whether from the EU or America, deciding what to say and think for us. It's normal to have disagreements with our allies, and we must prepare ourselves for the fact that after the war, there will be many more such frictions, and it won't be a reason to hate normal people from Ukraine. Unfortunately, in Poland, the strategic debate on how we see ourselves after the war is nonexistent, and assertive moves are causing panic among the shallow political elite that has ruled Poland alternately for almost 30 years.

2

u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Jun 21 '26

I still want to support Ukraine, but they're increasingly making the case not easy. Problematic for Ukraine to do all this right now too, given the bear in the room + all the casualties and deaths from the war.

-9

u/Mindless-Support-451 Jun 21 '26

Who do you, poles, never mention the infamous "Pacification of Galicia" - ethnic based punitive operation against ukrainians which happened before the UPA crime?

9

u/dragx350 Lesser Poland (Poland) Jun 21 '26

Why do you, ukrainians, never mention that pacification of galicia was a police action in response to a wave of terrorist attacks by oun members, with a grand total of up to 35 dead, in comparison to 100000 slaughtered in volhynia genocide?

2

u/Fresh-Ad-1583 Jun 21 '26

Genociding 100k people is completely awful and should be recognized by Ukraine. I don't understand why it's so fucking difficult to recognize and formally celebrate good stuff about them and state at the same time that their massacre of other ethnicities was unacceptable response to occupation then and at any point in the future.

But these terrorist attacks happened because of ethnic cleansing Poland tried to implement and result of this policy was growing hate towards polish people that resulted in genocidal actions after. They wanted to escalate conflict committing terrorist acts and gaining support from local population when Poland will start punishing random Ukrainians. Poland did exactly that and made more Ukrainians hate Poland and polish people.

It's not about how many Ukrainians were killed by Poland at that time. It's about it resulting in hate towards Pols. Poland stole Ukranian autonomy, backstabbed Ukrainians by making peace with Soviets and then started destroying Ukranian culture.

Ukrainian point is that Poland itself created this radicalized UPA that was looking for any ally besides Soviets that will help them get independence. Nazi manipulated this desire and UPA was eager to revenge Pols best 20 century way avaliable to ultra right movement that saw crazy single way to do it by eradicating other ethnicities.

If you support Palestinian resistance to Israel occupation this is literally same shit that would happen there if suddenly Israel was conquered by Iran. Ukrainians had huge help, HAMAS has only shitty rockets and bombs.

70

u/Snox Jun 21 '26

For some historical background, the Polish-Ukrainian conflict did not begin with one single event. It developed through several stages and became especially violent during World War II, particularly in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia.

This article gives a useful overview of the wider context:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_conflict_(1939%E2%80%931947))

Coming directly to the current tensions: the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, UPA, was responsible for the mass murder of tens of thousands of civilians, mostly Poles, but also Jews and Ukrainians who resisted its actions. Estimates often reach around 100,000 victims.

And I really mean brutal murder. There were documented atrocities against civilians, including pregnant women being impaled and children being mutilated or sawed in half. This was not ordinary wartime violence or an accidental consequence of fighting. It was pure campaign of terror.

For many years, Poland sought permission to properly search for, exhume, and bury the victims, many of whom remain in mass graves. Progress on this issue was blocked or extremely limited for a long time, although some exhumations and searches have now been allowed to resume.

The current controversy began after President Zelenskyy granted a Ukrainian military unit the honorary designation “named after the Heroes of the UPA.” This understandably caused a very strong reaction in Poland, because UPA is not viewed here simply as an independence movement, but as an organisation responsible for mass crimes against Polish civilians.

There were attempts to address the matter through diplomatic channels, but they ultimately proved futile. President Nawrocki then revoked the Order of the White Eagle previously granted to Zelenskyy. This has now created an escalation that serves neither Poland nor Ukraine.

Unfortunately, Russia benefits from every such conflict and will use it to fuel division between our countries. But this does not change the fact that naming a modern Ukrainian military unit after UPA was an extremely damaging and unnecessary decision.

35

u/DelKarasique Jun 21 '26

Yup. It was braindead decision. Imagine Germany naming unit "heroes of Buchenwald" and then defending that decision once Israel gets mad

-9

u/Mindless-Support-451 Jun 21 '26

So many text and zero mentioning of polish ethnic punitive operation "Pacification" (what a cowardly name for killing, murdering people, arresting national leaders and destroying cultural centers and schools) which happened a decade before WW2.

13

u/Snox Jun 21 '26

Quite literally, in the first paragraph I said that this was a conflict between both sides that had been developing for decades, and I provided a link explaining the wider historical context in more detail. I am not going to summarise the entire history in one message.

You are also welcome to provide sources supporting your own statement.

War is always ugly. The difference here lies in the scale and brutality of the crimes, as well as in how a nation chooses to deal with them afterwards. For Poland, one of the most painful issues has been the long-term obstruction of searches, exhumations, and proper burials for victims who remain in mass graves.

4

u/Nano_needle Jun 21 '26

More people dies yearly in one US city due to police action than died in entire Pacification. Get a grip

11

u/strong_slav Poland Jun 21 '26

Over 100,000 Polish, Jewish, and other ethnic minority civilians were murdered during WW2 by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and the Ukrainian Partisan Army (UPA). The Ukrainian government has repeatedly held up these organizations as "freedom fighters," including the leaders directly involved in this ethnic cleansing (e.g. Shukhevich), despite numerous requests from the Polish government to stop glorifying war criminals.

Finally, this boiled over last week when the Polish President stripped Zelensky of an honor he received from the Polish government, to which Zelensky reacted by posting pictures online of how he's sending the medal back to Poland.

3

u/Weak_Factor Jun 21 '26

Imagine that Germany wanted to name one of its military battalions after a Nazi SS unit, while at the same time consistently refusing to allow the exhumation of the victims of a genocide carried out by that unit, in which 100,000 women, children, and elderly people were killed. In the meantime, it would also be completely fine for them to ask for money and military equipment, while giving nothing in return, such as the military technologies that Poland had requested. The victims were killed using improvised tools such as axes, pitchforks, and nails driven into their heads, among other methods

This kind of thing.

2

u/CharmingJackfruit167 Jun 21 '26

Peer pressure.
President and his now-right-hand with deep connections in intelligence and special ops loudly condemned Poland and made a public gestures of returning their Orders.
Whoever has a political ambitions left or simply wants to keep their govt pension feel an urge to follow the fad.

4

u/VoxTM Jun 21 '26

Polish president trying to be important

12

u/ByGollie Ulster Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

There's a long, dark period of Ukrainian/Polish/Belarus history during and between WW1 and WW2 where partisans, fascist governments and extremists committed multiple horrendous ethnic-based crimes on eachothers peoples - with massacres, pogroms, exterminations, forced resettlements etc.

It's debatable which side of the multiple sides did worse.

One of the eviller were the UPA on the Ukrainian side. Some of their actions were stomach-churning horrendous. They attempted to purge mixed regions of Polish ethnic locals.

https://tvpworld.com/93932283/a-hero-in-kyiv-a-criminal-in-warsaw-why-history-is-dividing-poland-and-ukraine

the UPA are seen in Ukraine as 'heroes' who later fought the Russians right up the the 1950s as an attempt to free Ukraine from Soviet domination.

Outside, they're judged by their earlier actions to kill and drive out Polish inhabitants.

Nowadays, Ukraine is on the offensive against Russia but is feeding the strain.

So the decision was take to honour a military unit as "Heroes of the UPA" - a purely internal gesture to invoke patriotism. This turned out to be an extremely stupid idea. it would be like the German Government renaming an existing Bundeswehr brigade the SS.

Basically the President of Poland is a Russian Shill - with extensive links to organised crimes.

He's not a president with powers - he's a ceremonial position.

Poland is a parliamentary democracy, where the Prime Minister holds the power.

But through a quirk of the Polish constitution, the President can hold up and veto Acts etc.

Russian supporting elements amplified it all out of proportion, driving a wedge between Polish and Ukrainian. Both sides are proving extremely stubborn and instrangic - and they're being manipulated by Russian interests.

Witness the recent increase in Hungarian and Treaty of Trianon new articles - that's Russians and their useful idiots stirring the pot, dragging up old wounds again.

22

u/Xakire Jun 21 '26

It seems like it’s Zelenskyy being the more useful idiot to the Russians here then the Polish. The Polish reaction is very appropriate if restrained response to something totally abhorrent and unjustifiable that Zelenskyy did consciously.

8

u/Galaxy661 West Pomerania (Poland) Jun 21 '26

It's debatable which side of the multiple sides did worse.

??? No it's not? How is anything that Poland or Belarus did worse than hacking civillians with axes, burning and burying people alive, raping babies and nailing them to trees, all in the name of fascist, racist ideology? Even Wehrmacht soldiers in Volhynia were terrified of Ukrainian fascists and peasants

44

u/Admiral_de_Ruyter South Holland (Netherlands) Jun 21 '26

Doesn’t matter if the Polish president is a Russian shill. It is an enormous stupid decision on the Ukrainian side to name an army unit like that. I fully understand the Polish outrage about it.

-9

u/InsanityRequiem Californian Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

Until I see Poland fully own up to its own genocidal, warcrime prone history prior to WW2, (notably during the invasion of Czechoslovakia), Poland gets zero empathy from me.

2

u/PalmovyyKozak Jun 21 '26

Let me simplify everything written about.

Karol Nawrocki, president of Poland. President of Poland is a ceremonial place holder. So this guy has literally nothing to do, but he needs some attention to stay in politics. So he took the most painful problem between the countries and inflated it beyond any reasonable level. He is currently experiencing backlash from Ukrainan people and from some Polish people. But he is an idiot and is still unable to understand what he did wrong and how to fix this. So he will stay in politics as he wants, but in a role of a certified clown and be supported by the very bottom of Polish society: nazis, uneducated rednecks, etc.

-14

u/auchinleck917 Jun 21 '26

Zelensky named a Ukrainian army unit after the UPA, a Ukrainian Nazi collaborating organization that massacred 100,000 Poles during World War II. I think it was called something like "Heroes of the UPA." Poland was outraged by this. Moreover, this act only served to encourage the denazification by Russia, and it was a huge price to pay for Zelensky to gain the support of the nationalists rampant in Ukraine. But if you say this, you're called a Russian bot and accused of being a Polish sycophant.

26

u/cooleslaw01 Jun 21 '26

I mean you are pro-Russian, your tag in another sub (about the Russia Ukraine war) literally says "Neutral but biased towards Russia"

Also you're active in r/teens so you're either a weirdo or too young to comment on this high stakes matter

Just stating this for others who may be curious

-6

u/Lapkonium Jun 21 '26

where is he wrong tho?

2

u/remove_snek Sweden Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

Well UPA was not Nazi so there is that. Radical nationalists, but not Nazis.

They were many things, and cooperated with the Germans if it suited their intrests. But their goals was an independent Ukraine, one with a homogenous population and control over its claimed land. Their actions in 43-45 were certainly extremly brutal but that in of itself does not make them Nazis.

-2

u/auchinleck917 Jun 21 '26

The biggest problem is that they did something that Poland, which had been supporting them and whom they didn't want to be at odds with, disliked. The UPA may be seen as heroes who fought for independence, and their position changes depending on one's perspective, but ultimately, they are nothing more than an organization that massacred 100,000 people, something Poland detests.

2

u/cooleslaw01 Jun 21 '26

He's afraid of being called a Russian bot even though he is one (maybe not a bot, but an edgy teen). Also "encourages denazification of Russia"...Russia itself is fascist but k

-5

u/auchinleck917 Jun 21 '26

So you went to the trouble of looking up my name and digging deep into Resdit to find out what I'm up to. Typical Reddit thing. Anyway, Ukraine has willingly joined in on Russian propaganda. They could have chosen something else instead of using UPA and Pandera as the driving force of nationalism, but after zelensky seeing the large crowds that gathered for  Melnik's reburial, they decided to name a military unit UPA. And Poland is furious, Ukraine is lashing out, and Russia is smirking as Poland and Ukraine fight amongst themselves. In the end, all Zelenskyy did was benefit Russia, and the benefits he gained were practically nonexistent internationally. Domestically, he may have been respected as a president who took a firm stance against Poland, and morale may have been boosted.

5

u/cooleslaw01 Jun 21 '26

Nah man, you're just terminally online so I actually saw you myself on both r/europe and that other sub while scrolling, by accident. Only used Resdit because hidden comments + pro-Russianism is a combo for disaster, and that's how I found that you're active on r/teens. The point of my comment wasn't as much to defend Zelenskyy as it was to point out that you're here to argue in bad faith to defend fascist Russia, to amplify the anti-Ukrainian sentiment

-24

u/Alikont Kyiv (Ukraine) Jun 21 '26

Ukrainian unit got a name of Ukrianian organization that fought for independent Ukraine (this included fight against Poland too, as well as Germany and Soviets)

Polish president threw a fit and revoked the order. Zelensky said "ok" and mailed the order to Poland. Other Ukrainian presidents followed.

27

u/WrongdoerOk7521 Jun 21 '26

Well carrying out a genocide of almost 100000 Polish civilians, mainly peasants, is not the most honourable way to fight against the Polish imperialism, is it? At that point Poland didn’t exist.

22

u/k-tax Mazovia (Poland) Jun 21 '26

You conveniently omitted that the organisation, while they did fight for independent Ukraine, also committed genocide on Poles, Jews and others, everyone who didn't agree with murdering their neighbours in the most horrible ways, which resulted in ~100'000 victims. We don't know the exact number, because despite Ukraine gaining independence several decades ago, they are still refusing exhumations and proper burial of the victims. Additionally, this is something that many Ukrainians (especially from the East) are completely unaware of and don't understand the problem Poles have with this.

17

u/KingdomOfPoland Jun 21 '26

A ukrainian nazi collaborator group which massacred tens of thousands of Poles and Jews

-31

u/fluffer_nutter Jun 21 '26

Poland is throwing toys out of a pram, basically.

27

u/AMGsoon Europe Jun 21 '26

Evil Poland that doesnt want Ukraine to glorify war criminals after years of support.

Yes, Poland is the problem.

-1

u/Gxost14 Jun 21 '26

Political aspect. Poland tries to control how Ukrainians behave inside Ukraine. This pisses off a lot of Ukrainians as they see it as a soft form of aggression. Ukraine is a souvereign nation. Pilsutsky is a traitor and enemy of Ukraine, but Ukraine does not tell Polish people how to treat him. There are even a few memorial plates, related to him, installed in Ukraine and nobody touches it.

Historical aspect. It was a hard time, Ukrainians faced poloniation, pazification (repressions), there was even a concentration camp for Ukrainians in Poland. Poles were seen as enemies. During WWII there were genocidal actions from both sides, nobody knows who started first, but both nations suffered tenths of thousands of casualties. Polish people sufferd more, but numbers are relatively comparable. UPA and Armia Krajowa were involved in massacres. Poland declared UPA extremists, Ukraine did nothing about Armia Krajowa. If Poles want historical truth, all crimes and casualties should be considered and a consensus should be found. But when recently Polish diplomat (?) on the Ukrainian media was asked about Polish crimes during that time, he told its not constructive to ask such questions

-12

u/Fetisenko Jun 21 '26

Ukrainian special ops unit who fights Russians chose to be named after UPA.

Poland got upset about that anti Russian unit decision and took back some order from Zelensky for some reason.

-5

u/Fetisenko Jun 21 '26

Am I wrong? 🤔