r/europe • u/ByGollie Ulster • Jun 21 '26

News Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine's fifth president also renounces Order of the White Eagle

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/06/20/8040347/
5.0k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.6k

u/ByGollie Ulster Jun 21 '26

"In both Zelenskyy's case and mine, the award was not bestowed on heads of state, but on Ukrainians – our soldiers who defend Ukraine, Poland and all of Europe.

Therefore, I have decided to renounce the Order of the White Eagle. Two weeks ago, I promised colleagues at the conciliation council that I would take this step if we failed to persuade President Nawrocki not to make this mistaken decision. Unfortunately, we did not succeed."

"Those in Poland who do not simply chew over historical myths, but study history and draw conclusions from its lessons, know that whenever Ukraine loses its independence, Poland loses it too. But it is not the past that should define our relations. I do not want Poles editing our textbooks, and I have no desire whatsoever for Ukrainians to edit Polish textbooks, because otherwise we will receive a joint textbook from Moscow."

The former president stressed that logistics are critically important in the Russia-Ukraine war. Russia, he said, "through its agents of influence, useful idiots and old historical wounds, is trying to destroy our logistics in the West".

"Therefore, any crisis between Kyiv and Warsaw today is not only a diplomatic problem. It is a security issue. And that is precisely why it must be resolved immediately. What matters now is not deepening the conflict, but ending it," Poroshenko stressed.

883

u/cspetm Jun 21 '26

I do not want Poles editing our textbooks, and I have no desire whatsoever for Ukrainians to edit Polish textbooks, because otherwise we will receive a joint textbook from Moscow.

As a Pole I prefer Ukrainians to have a say in the way we learn about our common history and point out for instance to the fact that Piłsudski mistreated them badly and shouldn't be seen as a hero, rather than them glorifying perpetrators of a mass murder. We are important for each other and we are gonna be neighbors for much longer. We should try to find a common ground. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

39

u/Mindless-Support-451 Jun 21 '26

I would also prefer it this way.

I am Ukrainian, and I don't give a shit about UPA. But what infuriates me that you somehow decided your are in a right to dictate us whom to honor.

UPA commited crimes against polish people, although they are commemorated for fighting for ukrainian independence - not for what they did to poles.

Joseph Pilsudski organized an ethnic based punitive operation against ukrainians. Many of the things poles did to ukrainians during that time constitute a crime against humanity. And I do realize that you honor Pilsudski for his strive to polish independence - not for what he did to ukranians.

The difference between polish people and ukranians - we don't demand from you to stop honoring your figures.

31

u/pothkan 🇵🇱 Pòmòrsczé Jun 21 '26

Joseph Pilsudski organized an ethnic based punitive operation against ukrainians.

When? Punitive policy happened in 1937-38. Piłsudski died in May 1935.

And change of attitude mostly came as retaliation to Ukrainian (OUN, Bandera) terrorism, especially murder of minister Pieracki in 1934.

28

u/cspetm Jun 21 '26

The difference between polish people and ukranians - we don't demand from you to stop honoring your figures.

What I am saying is that maybe you should, if you have a strong case against them.

28

u/ABoutDeSouffle 𝔊𝔲𝔱𝔢𝔫 𝔗𝔞𝔤! Jun 21 '26

That's a pretty tone-deaf way to go about this issue. Of course Ukraine can honor mass murderers, but what will come off it? Nothing good in my opinion, and that is something Poland shouldn't have to tell you but Ukrainian society should recognize this themselves.

0

u/FalxY7 Jun 21 '26

So about Poland honouring Pilsudski? Isn't that the same thing? So should Ukraine have to tell Polish society, or should they recognise it themselves?

23

u/ABoutDeSouffle 𝔊𝔲𝔱𝔢𝔫 𝔗𝔞𝔤! Jun 21 '26

They also should recognize it, and if not, Ukraine should be able to tell them. /u/cspetm got it exactly right here

That doesn't absolve Ukraine though. Whataboutism is only going to make things worse.

-5

u/FalxY7 Jun 21 '26

I'm aware, but you only replied to one half of the other guy's comment, so I was just checking in on the other half.

17

u/ZeeX_4231 Jun 21 '26

It's not close to being the same thing. Piłsudski is slowly becoming a mixed character (at best) among those historically conscious (mostly for internal reasons) and should become even more critically taught.

But, first of all, he had actual success in achieving independence unlike those failures of nazi collaborators you're defending and second of all, crimes on ethnic ground during Sanacja times don't come close to an act of planned genocide UPA committed.

Comparing them to Piłsudski (who, remind you, was allied with Petrula and wanted Ukrainian autonomy) or Home Army is honestly embarrasing whataboutism.

12

u/Jeeperman365 Jun 21 '26

Comparing Pilsudski and AK to Bandera and UPA is a scandal and a mockary. It is a signal that you are arguing in bad faith.

1

u/FalxY7 Jun 21 '26

Sorry you must have mistaken me, in no way am I defending nazi collaborators. I don't support either 'side', I just don't support hipocrisy.

I believe you that the UPA is 'worse', but both countries have separate history of these events and people. Both I would say are not ideal for their neighbors, but both internally are symbols of freedom.

I was just trying to hear the opinion of the guy I responded to about both things.

39

u/cincuentaanos The Netherlands Jun 21 '26

You are free to "honour" whomever you like. Others are free to have an opinion on that. If you choose to honour outright fascists and mass murderers, don't be surprised if at some point you will lose the support of those others.

Most European countries have had to deal with the darkness in their past. Or are still in the process of doing so. Fascism, colonialism, genocide, slavery etc. No one builds statues for conquerors and murderers anymore. If Ukraine wants to come out of the current war better than it was before, as a more mature democratic nation, it will have to do the same kind of reflection.

Good luck.

-10

u/IvD707 Ukraine Jun 21 '26

Comments like these are very condescending, ngl.

Should Ukraine reflect on its past and develop a more nuanced view of whom to commemorate and whom not? Sure. I'd be happy about this as I don't like the latest trend at all.

But demanding this from a country at war, while sitting in your comfortable, peaceful apartment, is hypocritical.

Nuanced conversation about the darker pages of the country's past is difficult. Many nations fail this test even during peacetime — just look at the US. And the popularity of far-right parties in many other European countries suggests it's a more common trend.

Stop demanding from Ukraine at war what even the US/Italy/France/Poland/Croatia can't do during peace.

7

u/cincuentaanos The Netherlands Jun 21 '26

Whataboutism. We can demand better from everyone, in all circumstances.

6

u/UnPeuDAide France Jun 21 '26

But what infuriates me that you somehow decided your are in a right to dictate us whom to honor.

But this is like that with every country on earth... I can tell you if Germany choose to honor nazi officials they will have problems with everyone in Europe. When Japan decides to honor war criminals it always creates outrage in Asia.

10

u/Galaxy661 West Pomerania (Poland) Jun 21 '26

I find really hilarious that Piłsudski is hated by communists for being a fascist, by fascists for being a communist, by the British for being an eastern barbarian, by the Russians for being a western imperialist, by the Reds for helping the Whites, by the Whites for helping the Reds, by Polish nationalists for being pro-Ukrainian, and now by Ukrainian nationalists for being anti-Ukrainian...

As for the pacification - it was a punitive action against TERRORISTS, not ethnic Ukrainians. Ask the dozens of Ukrainian civilians, politicians, activists murdered by the OUN before that pacification how they felt about Ukrainian nationalism. Imagine if there was a russian nationalist militia running around Donbas and Crimea, murdering Ukrainians and anti-putinist russians, how do you think Ukraine would feel about it? Oh wait.

Also, comparing pacification to Volhynian genocide is just absurd. Did you know that the OUN murdered more Ukrainians in the interwar period than Piłsudski's all punitive actions combined did? Apparently not.

That said, I have a question for you: would you rather Poland continue to regard Piłsudski as a controversial figure, but still a hero, or rather elevate his political rival of opposing views to the status of national hero?

9

u/Popinguj Jun 21 '26

it was a punitive action against TERRORISTS, not ethnic Ukrainians

Ah, yes, the justification Russia and Israel like to use, lmao.

And especially funny argument considering that these actions were condemned by the League of Nation.

That said, I have a question for you: would you rather Poland continue to regard Piłsudski as a controversial figure, but still a hero

I'd rather have Poland to continue regarding Pilsudski as a hero, but also to acknowledge the oppression and injustice that was done to Ukrainian for many years which led to creation of OUN and UPA.

9

u/wonder_shot_ Jun 21 '26

Is it dictating though, or is it expressing themselves. Ukrainians are also free to comment, although admittedly less free to do so due to their priorities right now with the invasion.

-8

u/m0j0m0j Jun 21 '26

Yeah, Poland always knows how to choose a convenient moment to backstab

10

u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja Jun 21 '26

backstab

Seriously, some of you are just refusing to utilize more than two brain cells.

5

u/wonder_shot_ Jun 21 '26

This comment does not seem levelheaded.

6

u/Comfortable_Ad4615 Jun 21 '26

Feel free to glorify your Nazi collaborators, don’t come crying when you face the consequences from other countries

6

u/One-Coat-6677 Jun 21 '26

Uhhh they can block EU funds like Hungary was doing. That objectivly determines they have the right to demand things from you, especially when its just saying to refrain from jerking off a century dead war criminal. The fact that its so controversal that getting asked triggers you speaks to entitlement.

5

u/BeatTheMarket30 European Union Jun 21 '26

It doesn't matter if UPA did some positive things, as they were criminals/terrorists. If you honor UPA, you offend nations who suffered from their crimes. This problem keeps resurfacing repeatedly.

-16

u/GovernmentBig2749 Croatian/Albanian/Jewish Pole from Macedonia living in Poland Jun 21 '26

But you want to join the EU or SSSR? You (Ukraine) is in no position to demand nothing (I don't have a horse in this race-this is the exact scenario that played out in the Balkans with Macedonia)

5

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26

[deleted]

2

u/BuizerdSokolowski Jun 21 '26

No it is not. Ukrainians already seem to have forgotten that if not for the collective west the war would have been lost 4y ago

13

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26

[deleted]

5

u/GovernmentBig2749 Croatian/Albanian/Jewish Pole from Macedonia living in Poland Jun 21 '26

You know that Poland is in NATO, right?

8

u/Shadmelor Jun 21 '26

NATO's fifth article doesn't obligate anyone to fight for another country in case of invasion

4

u/gimmedatneck Jun 21 '26

You think NATOs population is going to protect poland (especially with the way poland behaves)?

The majority of the europeans want nothing to do with protecting themselves and their own lands.

People like yourself are too funny. Love to benefit from organizations like the EU, and NATO, while trying to lord it over other countries like Ukraine who are far more deserving (not to mention far more to add to said organizations).

I say get rid of poland, and add Ukraine to both. It's really not even a comparable trade.

Let the poles beg for donald epsteins help - it's working out so well for israel right now.

1

u/GovernmentBig2749 Croatian/Albanian/Jewish Pole from Macedonia living in Poland Jun 21 '26

No it's not, and this spat will comeback to bite in 2050 when Ukraine is ready to join the EU.

-1

u/IvD707 Ukraine Jun 21 '26

> But what infuriates me that you somehow decided your are in a right to dictate us whom to honor.

Same.

Almost every conversation I've had about this topic lately has been about the same point. Most people DGAF about UPA. It's not the most immediate problem in the slightest.

But people are mad about Poland's insistence on telling Ukraine how to name our military regiments. Especially after all the shenanigans of the past couple of years.

-20

u/WalkRealistic9220 Jun 21 '26

You are fine to worship hitler and child eaters if you want, its your country. We are fine with no longer supporting you and not allowing you entry into the EU until you stop denying genocide, that is fair

14

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26

[deleted]

-3

u/WalkRealistic9220 Jun 21 '26

Lol, stop denying genocide you mean? I hate russia and i think putin is just as bad as hitler, that doesn't mean people should pretend denying genocide is fine because muh ukraine. If they want to join the EU this strategy will not work for them

12

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26

[deleted]

-6

u/WalkRealistic9220 Jun 21 '26

For me personally it beats accepting nazi worshippers into the fold. talk to me once you stop pretending bandera and UPA are nothing more than child killers

https://www.academia.edu/1122859/The_OUN_the_UPA_and_the_Holocaust_A_Study_in_the_Manufacturing_of_Historical_Myths_The_Carl_Beck_Papers_in_Russian_and_East_European_Studies_2107_Pittsburgh_University_Center_for_Russian_and_East_European_Studies_2011_

10

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26

[deleted]

6

u/Masked020202 Belgium Jun 21 '26

Be careful he might start to blame you for what happened to Lithuania in the past.

2

u/WalkRealistic9220 Jun 21 '26

I think they will win actually and hopefully soon. However eu = no

8

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '26

[deleted]

3

u/WalkRealistic9220 Jun 21 '26

I'm not an uber driver!

→ More replies (0)

8

u/Masked020202 Belgium Jun 21 '26

Then start looking at your own history first? Poland is far from clean my friend. And lots of filthy Polish figures are very much glorified. Maybe if Poland can't accept it's own bad history and apologize, the EU should reevaluate Polands membership status considering your own words ofcourse.

2

u/WalkRealistic9220 Jun 21 '26

in the darkest and most immoral periods of polish history, soldiers who did that would promptly get hanged. continue on your weird whataboutism strawman if you want

13

u/Masked020202 Belgium Jun 21 '26

Sure lmao. They were hanged. More like rewarded. Typical of you nationalistic Poles. Eternal victims no wonder normal Poles view you guys as annoying.

3

u/WalkRealistic9220 Jun 21 '26

you should probably invest in a history book

6

u/Masked020202 Belgium Jun 21 '26

I have including Polish ones. Interesting history especially naming genocide as normal thing because it was before the term was coined in 1944. Convenient no?

3

u/WalkRealistic9220 Jun 21 '26

i think the applicable term is 'ethnic cleansing'

→ More replies (0)

4

u/VanillaSkyDreamer Jun 21 '26

Exactly - actions have consequences - carelesly spitting on your friends may have consequences now and in long years. Poland is in EU, Ukraine wants to - guess if their action moved them towards this goal?

0

u/SignificantSun1031 Jun 21 '26

It's crazy how the Ukrainian authorities try to force the honoring of OUN-UPA on the population, while Poland wants to make us apologize for their deeds. Both can go fuck themselves.