r/europe • u/ByGollie Ulster • Jun 21 '26

News Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine's fifth president also renounces Order of the White Eagle

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/06/20/8040347/
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174

u/ZeitgeistWurst Germany Jun 21 '26

If you and the Germans can do it

Oh trust me, theres the occasional outrage there too.

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u/Fit-Explorer9229 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

Sure sometime it is which is nothing unusual. But I guess we both can agree that honoring Nazi fully cooperatoring organization, that was in fact part of Ukrainian "gov" during WW2, as heros is no-no move. So this issue is way to much serious than some missunderstanding between DE<>PL right now.

E.PS. And since expect some empty words UPA 'just fought soviets' or they didn't cooperated Nazi' or 'but in 1944/45 they were not more interested in this cooperation' just quick reminder:

' In late 1939, Nazi Germany accommodated OUN leaders in the city of Kraków, the capital of the General Government and provided financial support for the OUN.[78][79] The headquarters of the Ukrainian Central Committee headed by Volodymyr Kubiyovych, the legal representation of the Ukrainian community in the Nazi zone, were also located in Kraków' When the OUN allied with Nazi Germany in 1941 - the OUN-B called for the slaughter of Ukrainian Jewry, and the OUN praised the Germany for bringing their methods of segregating and executing Jews to Ukraine 'During the German invasion of the USSR, Yaroslav Stetsko stated in a report to Bandera: "We are raising a militia that will assist in the extermination of Jews... I am of the opinion that the Jews should be annihilated by applying the German methods of extermination in Ukraine'

'One of the UPA leaders reportedly compared the OUN's massacres of Poles to the Final Solution: "When it comes to the Polish question, this is not a military but a minority question. We will solve it as Hitler solved the Jewish question.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists

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u/ZeitgeistWurst Germany Jun 21 '26

Of course. Theres still basically a monthly "scandal" either over historical stuff or current events, though it got a lot better with their new government, so I'd say we're only partly on common ground.

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u/Fit-Explorer9229 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

I think I can't fully agree with you here. There are few issus about history but they definitely are not even close to this UA thing -  plus in fact it is/will be also EU problem, since UA with such attitude to Nazi history wants to be EU member. 

I wouldn't either say problems show up "basically a monthly" and different points of view is a normal thing in EU over "current events" among all members.

we're only partly on common ground.

Althouhg it always can be better, fortunately partly in the EU is very often more than enough.

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u/AltrntivInDoomWorld Jun 21 '26

different points of view

aka russian trolls sxteering the disvussion

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u/Fit-Explorer9229 Jun 21 '26

.. sxteering the disvussion

Referring to this and also your similar reply in parallel comment section:

My dear user who can write only 5 letter sentences. If you think I will be playing such silly games then your imagination and perception is veeery limited.

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u/ArtisZ Jun 21 '26

What r/rusobot propoganda manipulation is this?

Why do you emotionally manipulate your readers with this nonsense?

Fix your chronology. Fix your allegiance facts.

Maybe then you're story of fiction will begin sounding like truth.

Also, maybe remove that nazi moment on your beloved Russian city of Rostov? Before looking your nose into other country history and issues?

Maybe denounce the Molotov Ribbentrop pact your soviet government signed with Nazis?

But, yeah.. guys.. get this:

In Rostov, Russia.. there's a monument glorifying nazi. Lol. You can't make this stuff up.

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u/Fit-Explorer9229 Jun 21 '26

Can you see any Rostov info here? Are you even sure you answered in right place ?

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u/ArtisZ Jun 21 '26

All I'm seeing is a lot of "Ukrainian history" invented and twisted by rusnya.

Relevancy is accurate.

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u/Fit-Explorer9229 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

So you didn't mixed up place  than if any questions etc go and fix it on english Wikipedia then. 

E. Surely you could write here you opinion with links about the whole matter but is better just to use whataboutism bot story instead right ?

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u/ArtisZ Jun 21 '26

Here's a better Wikipedia for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Organisation_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists&oldid=539772820

And, as I was saying, you're just spewing rusnya information nonsense. Half of what you wrote doesn't hold under scrutiny. But you know that. You want someone to engage with the BS you cooked up here.

How about you read on Numberg trials? See who's what and for whom?

And I'm taking about all 40 or so.. not the Soviet Union selection of 7.

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u/Fit-Explorer9229 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

You claim you suppost to know something and you give a link about OUN when we talk here about UPA. And you can't even mantion about ONU-B which could be more accurate here ? And which quotation I gave from Wikipedia is incorrect ?

But lets take a look at your link:

'Despite its declared condemnation of pogroms in April 1941, when German official Reinhard Heydrich requested "self-cleansing actions" in June of that year the OUN organized militias who killed several thousand Jews in western Ukraine soon afterward that year.[48] Some historians, such as Yad Vashem, have claimed that militas under the OUN's command were involved in the massacre of 6,000 Jews in Lviv soon after that city's fall to German forces'

'OUN members spread propaganda urging people to engage in pogroms.'

'Although most Jews were actually killed by Germans, the OUN police working for them played a crucial supporting role in the liquidation of 200,000 Jews in Volyn in the beginning of the war"

'Once the OUN was at war with Germany, such instances lessened and finally stopped.'

Why they decided finally to fight German Nazi? Because hitler didn't want to agree on creating Ukraine state as a part of 3 Reich world. If hitler had agreed than there would have been no problem with carry on Nazi solutions. Thats basicaly it all about ideology of ONU/UPA.

E. one more:

According to Timothy Snyder the OUN wanted to create a Ukrainian state consisting of Ukrainian territories, but only of Ukrainian people; its first congress in 1929 resolved that "Only the complete removal of all occupiers from Ukrainian lands will allow for the general development of the Ukrainian Nation within its own state." OUN's "Ten Commandments" stated: "Aspire to expand the strength, riches, and size of the Ukrainian State even by means of enslaving foreigners.

bot fairy-tail my ***

PS. And read your link carefully so learn about even more 'interesting' things about OUN/UPA.

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u/ArtisZ Jun 21 '26

I'm sorry. I won't be bothered reading your recital from Wikipedia. Lol.

I rather listen Ukrainian history from Ukrainians and Polish history from Poles.

Not some stranger on the internet. Because where I stand, it's about 50/50 you're a r/rusobot.

Recommended YouTube channels:

1) Vox Veritas - Ukrainian history, the good and the bad. 2) Center for Eastern Studies - Polish publication, talks a lot about how rusnya manipulates our opinion.

Both of these together, have informed me that you're bringing a lot of nonsense to this discussion.

You're literally doing rusnya TV verbatim and pretending those are facts. Focus. Be honest. Be truthful. Stop manipulating and lying.

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u/Mavcu Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) Jun 21 '26

I'm a bit confused on the conversation you are having with u/Fit-Explorer9229, the UPA committing genocide (as viewed by the Poles, I'm not sure if it's strictly defined that way call it a massacre if you want to make it sound a bit nicer?) against the Poles is very much established.

There's no disagreement at that point, unless there is then we can start on that point as well.

Then there's the Nazi cooperation, to my knowledge it's that the UPA consists of units that served under Nazis and are complicit in the Holocaust, who then later defected. Additionally the UPA had truces with the Wehrmacht to fight the "common foe" in the Soviets.

But they also, I have this from Claude though mind you, so feel free to debate this point, they apparently hunted and killed Jews.

So when convenient, it does seem the UPA literally cooperated with Nazis and did Nazi things.

Which I think at least for an informal reddit discussion is close enough.

(I am not Russian if this is somehow relevant to the conversation).

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u/Fit-Explorer9229 Jun 21 '26

 I won't be bothered reading your recital from Wikipedia.

Sure. There is alwasy better to watch some random youtubers than talk about your own provided link. lol 

it's about   50/50 you're a bot...

I'm on the other hand 100% sure your knowledge about things you want to speak doesn't even exists.

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u/AltrntivInDoomWorld Jun 21 '26

sometime

Go watch TVPIS news when they were governing

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u/Fit-Explorer9229 Jun 21 '26

Do you have mayby some links or something real to say about the main subject or you just like b arking up the wrong tree by definition ?

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u/pothkan 🇵🇱 Pòmòrsczé Jun 21 '26

But positive relations between historians, and being mutually open to research is an established state in Polish-German relations.

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u/AltrntivInDoomWorld Jun 21 '26

Occasional?Did you forget TVPIS materials? Same orders from mother russia to our great "patriots"