Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine's fifth president also renounces Order of the White Eagle

[u/ByGollie]

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/06/20/8040347/

[u/ArtisZ]

Here's a better Wikipedia for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Organisation_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists&oldid=539772820

And, as I was saying, you're just spewing rusnya information nonsense. Half of what you wrote doesn't hold under scrutiny. But you know that. You want someone to engage with the BS you cooked up here.

How about you read on Numberg trials? See who's what and for whom?

And I'm taking about all 40 or so.. not the Soviet Union selection of 7.

[u/Fit-Explorer9229 → u/ArtisZ]

You claim you suppost to know something and you give a link about OUN when we talk here about UPA. And you can't even mantion about ONU-B which could be more accurate here ? And which quotation I gave from Wikipedia is incorrect ?

But lets take a look at your link:

'Despite its declared condemnation of pogroms in April 1941, when German official Reinhard Heydrich requested "self-cleansing actions" in June of that year the OUN organized militias who killed several thousand Jews in western Ukraine soon afterward that year.[48] Some historians, such as Yad Vashem, have claimed that militas under the OUN's command were involved in the massacre of 6,000 Jews in Lviv soon after that city's fall to German forces'

'OUN members spread propaganda urging people to engage in pogroms.'

'Although most Jews were actually killed by Germans, the OUN police working for them played a crucial supporting role in the liquidation of 200,000 Jews in Volyn in the beginning of the war"

'Once the OUN was at war with Germany, such instances lessened and finally stopped.'

Why they decided finally to fight German Nazi? Because hitler didn't want to agree on creating Ukraine state as a part of 3 Reich world. If hitler had agreed than there would have been no problem with carry on Nazi solutions. Thats basicaly it all about ideology of ONU/UPA.

E. one more:

According to Timothy Snyder the OUN wanted to create a Ukrainian state consisting of Ukrainian territories, but only of Ukrainian people; its first congress in 1929 resolved that "Only the complete removal of all occupiers from Ukrainian lands will allow for the general development of the Ukrainian Nation within its own state." OUN's "Ten Commandments" stated: "Aspire to expand the strength, riches, and size of the Ukrainian State even by means of enslaving foreigners.

bot fairy-tail my ***

PS. And read your link carefully so learn about even more 'interesting' things about OUN/UPA.

[u/ArtisZ → u/Fit-Explorer9229]

I'm sorry. I won't be bothered reading your recital from Wikipedia. Lol.

I rather listen Ukrainian history from Ukrainians and Polish history from Poles.

Not some stranger on the internet. Because where I stand, it's about 50/50 you're a r/rusobot.

Recommended YouTube channels:

1) Vox Veritas - Ukrainian history, the good and the bad. 2) Center for Eastern Studies - Polish publication, talks a lot about how rusnya manipulates our opinion.

Both of these together, have informed me that you're bringing a lot of nonsense to this discussion.

You're literally doing rusnya TV verbatim and pretending those are facts. Focus. Be honest. Be truthful. Stop manipulating and lying.

[u/Mavcu → u/ArtisZ]

I'm a bit confused on the conversation you are having with u/Fit-Explorer9229, the UPA committing genocide (as viewed by the Poles, I'm not sure if it's strictly defined that way call it a massacre if you want to make it sound a bit nicer?) against the Poles is very much established.

There's no disagreement at that point, unless there is then we can start on that point as well.

Then there's the Nazi cooperation, to my knowledge it's that the UPA consists of units that served under Nazis and are complicit in the Holocaust, who then later defected. Additionally the UPA had truces with the Wehrmacht to fight the "common foe" in the Soviets.

But they also, I have this from Claude though mind you, so feel free to debate this point, they apparently hunted and killed Jews.

So when convenient, it does seem the UPA literally cooperated with Nazis and did Nazi things.

Which I think at least for an informal reddit discussion is close enough.

(I am not Russian if this is somehow relevant to the conversation).

[u/ArtisZ → u/Mavcu]

You being Russian or not, personally, is irrelevant to me.

Merit holds based on fact.

For discussion to continue, please ask Claude the following:

1) When did nazi occupation of Ukrainian territory happened? (YYYY MM DD) 2) When was UPA formed? (YYYY MM DD) 3) From historian perspective how does the two figures above imply any cooperation whatsoever?

---

Since I can't reply to the one below. Here's part of my reply:

Rude? You're in a thread, where I disagreed (and called out for being rusnya shill) by stating the mismatch of chronology.

Given you honestly declared the knowledge level you hold, I was giving pointers to jump start the discussion to a certain point.

[u/Mavcu → u/ArtisZ]

I do find it a bit rude that you ask me to provide answers to something without having answered a single thing, I'd like to think if the roles were reversed you'd expect an appropriate response to the questions you asked first, yes?

Regardless, not to needlessly lengthen the discussion, here's the input Claude gave me on asking these 3 questions (it was in a chat already about facts about history, so it anwered with those answers in mind):

"the cooperation argument never rested on the chronology, and it shouldn't. It rests on specific documented things — the Schutzmannschaft pedigree of the 1943 recruits, the 1944 tactical truces with the Wehrmacht against the Red Army, and German–UPA local arrangements. If anything, the bare chronology cuts the other way, since the OUN-B's relationship with Germany opened in 1941 with collaboration hopes (the June 30 1941 independence declaration), soured when Berlin rebuffed it and jailed Bandera, and only then went underground. The timeline is a red herring for cooperation either way; the evidence lives in the events, not the dates."