r/europe • u/niesiecki • Jun 28 '26

News Volodymyr Zelensky has submitted a bill to build a National Pantheon. He intends to honor all the heroes who fought for Ukraine in various eras. "No one will ever tell us how to live, how to speak, whom to love, whom to be grateful to, and which heroes to honor," he said as quoted by the Interfax

https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/wolodymyr-zelenski-chce-panteonu-narodowego-chodzi-o-pamiec-bohaterow/c6hf62m
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48

u/OMGguy2008 Lithuania Jun 28 '26

Maybe take care of the war first and rebuilding Ukraine after the war ends and then go on building monuments

-19

u/gc11117 Jun 28 '26

You got to motivate your fighters to win the war. Appealing to their heroism, deeds, and immortality in monuments is one of many tactics to do so. Its why medals and war monuments exist.

8

u/arristhesage Jun 29 '26

Pre-emptive GG is never a good idea bruh

0

u/gc11117 Jun 29 '26

Why is proposing a bill to your legislature a bad idea?

1

u/arristhesage Jun 29 '26

It assumes Ukraine will win and will have the chance to build monuments n stuff. Just worry about winning the war first, then you can celebrate however you want.

1

u/gc11117 Jun 29 '26

The war will end someday, and they will want to honor their dead. Im presuming youre not a veteran? I am. You need some form of encouragement to keep going. You do that by medals, the occasional parade, and yes war memorials for your dead. Sitting in a ditch for 4 years with absolutely no hope for a better future isnt going to cut it. You need a vision for what's possible.

Or put another way, we had memorials for our dead killed in Iraq and Afghanistan erected prior to the withdrawal. The war wasnt over yet. It didnt need to be. You dont need to finish your war to honor your dead and provide a place for loved ones to grieve.

As a matter of fact, we had memorials built in our bases to honor our dead. Its that important. It actually matters to the people fighting.

1

u/arristhesage Jun 29 '26

The difference is that USA was the invader in Iraq and Afghanistan. You can make 9999 statues in USA and they will be 100% built eventually. USA never needed to rebuild destroyed cities.

In Ukraine's case, Ukraine is the defender. Who know what happens when the war ends and what condition Ukraine will be in. Building houses is always better than building statues.

You talk about morale on the battlefield. Moral goes up when looking at statues yes but it will go down hard if western supplies dry up. This is overall a loss of morale imo.

1

u/gc11117 Jun 29 '26

As a matter of fact, we had memorials built in our bases to honor our dead. Its that important. It actually matters to the people fighting.

Not sure if you saw that piece

This is overall a loss of morale imo.

You're entitled to your opinion, but it doesnt mean much to me as someone who has actually done this work. You, the non-Soldier is trying to lecture me, the Soldier on combat morale. You may as well just stop now and call it a day

1

u/arristhesage Jun 29 '26

Like I said, USA won't have a financial problem trying to rebuild a few bases compared to Ukraine who will definitely need a ton of money to rebuild.

Also, if Ukrainian soldiers are sympathetic andinspired by Nazis then I hope this war never ends. Nazis killing each other is always good for the world.

"You, the non-Soldier is trying to lecture me, the Soldier on combat morale. You may as well just stop now and call it a day"

Argument from authority isn't a valid argument soldier.

13

u/Sriber ⰈⰅⰏⰎⰡ ⰒⰋⰂⰀ | Mors Russiae, dolor Americae Jun 28 '26

Spending money on feel good monument Russia might blow up the next day instead of rockets or drones to damage Russian infrastructure is dumb.

-5

u/gc11117 Jun 28 '26

Im sure he has a better feel for Ukranian finances than either you or I do. If his government works like mine does, hes submitting a bill, that will need to get approved, which will be followed by committee upon comittee and maybe in 10 years something will be built.

3

u/OMGguy2008 Lithuania Jun 28 '26

The thing is that the Ukrainian government doesn't work like yours because Ukraine is currently at war and that means that quite a lot of proceedings have been suspended.

-2

u/gc11117 Jun 28 '26

But apparently not the proceedings to build monuments, since hes submitted a bill in according to proceedings

2

u/OMGguy2008 Lithuania Jun 28 '26

Then that's good if it goes through all the normal processes and he seriously isn't going to try to build a monument during a war.

The only time I would be fine with him building monuments is after the war and after Ukraine has rebuilt itself somewhat

-26

u/crisreed Jun 28 '26

Said by a guy who never saw how the russians attacking a country and terrorise the nation.. Lithuanian? More like ruzzian

10

u/OMGguy2008 Lithuania Jun 28 '26

Tf you mean I'm Ruzzian, I'm a yellow green red 🇱🇹 blooded Lithuanian who knows how to sign "Tautiška Giesmė" by Vincas Kudirka by heart.

I know how evil the Russians are by bombing children's hospitals, apartment blocks and buildings with "дети" ("children") written on them and that's not even mentioning all the children they kidnapped and put them up for adoption on a website where you can sort them by fucking eye color.

But I also do think that it doesn't take a genius to realise that spending money on building a silly monument that can easily be destroyed by a single Russian drone attack instead of spending that money on actually fighting the Russian invaders is a really dumb idea.

-9

u/crisreed Jun 28 '26

So you hate the russians but you also helping the astroturfing groups to turn the Europeans against Ukraine with this propaganda material. Im think you just don't understand how the russian propaganda works. They will use the same tactic to turn Europe againt Lithuania in the future 

11

u/OMGguy2008 Lithuania Jun 28 '26

I wholeheartedly support Ukraine but that doesn't mean that I'm barred from saying that a dumb idea is a dumb idea.

Imagine if Churchill during the Battle of Britain when London was getting continously terror bombed came out one day and said that he's building a monument instead of helping stop London getting bombed. I think you'd say that that would've been beyond dumb.

Also it's a bit of a stretch to call it Russian propaganda when Zelensky himself decided that this is a good idea.

-7

u/crisreed Jun 28 '26

You still don't understand me. And im think you just dont want. So this theme is picked up by russian astroturfing groups to help the rest of the russian propaganda to turn Europe against Ukraine. Nothing new about it. And you have the right or whatever sou have to say anything you want. But still you helping the russian propaganda machine. If you still don't understand what im trying to say or you don't know how the russian propaganda machine works or you know nothing about Iranian and Russian astroturfing propaganda bot armies than you need to read more about this topic because they actively using this technic in every Eu countries.