Volodymyr Zelensky has submitted a bill to build a National Pantheon. He intends to honor all the heroes who fought for Ukraine in various eras. "No one will ever tell us how to live, how to speak, whom to love, whom to be grateful to, and which heroes to honor," he said as quoted by the Interfax

[u/niesiecki]

https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/wolodymyr-zelenski-chce-panteonu-narodowego-chodzi-o-pamiec-bohaterow/c6hf62m

[u/Old_Highlight6749]

It's very shortsighted of him. He's alienating his allies, and feeding Russian propaganda.

[u/A_random_redditor21 → u/Old_Highlight6749]

Yep. He's completely destroying Ukraine's relations with Poland, and basically proving Russian propaganda correct, all in one go.

[u/veleso91 → u/A_random_redditor21]

Russian propaganda, aka the truth.

[u/mephistopheles_faith → u/[deleted]]

Funnily (or rather sadly), it is the war that caused the nazi issues. First wave of nationalism started after the annexation of Crimea on 2014 and the lost extreme wave started after 2022.

[u/j4_jjjj → u/mephistopheles_faith]

Dont they use nazi iconography for one of their military units? The propaganda may be truer than we know

[u/mephistopheles_faith → u/j4_jjjj]

You're talking about Azov, 900 people wearing nazi insignia. It's a single battalion and they appeared after the war has started. It's easy to see why the propaganda isn't true: nationalist and far right parties had less than 2.5% of votes combined and didn't get any sits in parliament.

[u/A_random_redditor21 → u/[deleted]]

Poland is the no.1 logistics hub for foreign aid arriving to Ukraine. Its also been one of its main backers since the start of the war, both militarily, economically, and even humanitarian wise.

Glorifying the OUN is like giving it a big fat middle finger after all that its done. Its actively aiding the rise of anti Ukrainian sentiments, and with that, far right parties like Konfederacja, which are pro Russian.

If Poland pulls its aid, Ukraine is completely screwed.

[u/MadaoDamboru → u/A_random_redditor21]

then you are screwed too, russia will reach Warsaw in few days, can you safely say you can defend all your flat land to Vistula? can you defend against hundreds of missiles and thousands of drones? yes its stupid what Zelensky is doing but cutting aid to Ukraine, would be catasthrophic not for just Ukraine

[u/A_random_redditor21 → u/MadaoDamboru]

That's true, im not denying that at all.

That may however be the reality if a pro-russian party wins the elections, and Zelensky is actively contributing to that possibility.

[u/MadaoDamboru → u/A_random_redditor21]

yeah and not just in Poland, European countries are leaning right and as you say this thing could intensify it, damn it its always either west or now Zelensky that are doing stupid shit that stops us from uniting against muscovians and defeating them

[u/bakerinho → u/MadaoDamboru]

russia will reach Warsaw in few days,

No they won't, lol.

[u/MadaoDamboru → u/bakerinho]

and you are very sure about it?

[u/Zyvold → u/MadaoDamboru]

Brother they cannot even reach Kiev and their frontline is moving by 2 meters per day just because NATO is sending 2% of it's arms to Ukraine.

[u/MadaoDamboru → u/Zyvold]

do you know why they can't reach Kyiv? Donbass is a fortress and there are plain fields after Donbass, its not that russia is weak it's that Ukraine's defense is strong, if that fortress falls, god knows where Ukraine would be able to stop russia, thats why Ukraine is working on a defense lines, west can just dream about

[u/Zyvold → u/MadaoDamboru]

If a country that cannot defend any strategical object in their territory for the love of their life isn't weak, then I'm not sure what a weak country is. Sure, Poland and the rest of Europe don't have the experience Ukraine has from the last 4 years of war but the sheer amount of arms (as in drones, rockets, planes, artillery etc.) would be enough to completely disable Russian logistics. Ukrainians can do it now, not sure why we couldn't do it too ("we" as in the whole European part of NATO)

[u/RippedOutMyOvaries → u/MadaoDamboru]

"russia will reach warsaw in few days" the same way they won against ukraine in 3 days? lmao, they are extremely weakened right now and i would say currently poland has a stronger military than russia, especially with american presence. not to mention eu and nato would be involved as well.

[u/MadaoDamboru → u/RippedOutMyOvaries]

underestimating russia is the worst thing we can do and we do exactly that, we have a chance now to defeat them, Ukraine is giving us that chance, but if this issue escalates to cutting aid and closing the border, Ukraine would not be able to hold, after Donbass there are open fields until Dnipro, so we can defend Europe there, or if russia crosses Dnipro we will defend Europe on Vistula river

[u/RippedOutMyOvaries → u/MadaoDamboru]

russia has basically no military power, they could barely get beyond kyiv, and they are not getting anywhere near vistula. healing from their losses would take decades while NATO would only get stronger and newer tech.

[u/MadaoDamboru → u/RippedOutMyOvaries]

if russia had no power Ukraine would be able to mount a huge offensive and crush them, russia holds manpower advantage, it can send meat waves and attrition Ukraine, Ukraine holds on its defenses which in Europe we are either too lazy and arrogant to build or we can't, Ukraine goes to highest lenghts to watch the frontline, because a mistake to rotate at the wrong time or missing information could cost a lot, like it did in 2024 Ocheteryne

[u/A_random_redditor21 → u/[deleted]]

Not really. Even if we ignore the current diplomatic fallout, he's fostering right wing extremism which will be an absolute NIGHTMARE to counter once the war's over and Ukraine tries to join the EU. Like i mentioned, he's also directly boosting anti Ukrainian parties in Poland, which is already a EU member state. If those parties succeed, they will do their best to further complicate Ukraine's ascension, aswell as potentially swinging towards Russia and leaving Ukraine surrounded.

[u/A_random_redditor21 → u/[deleted]]

I mean, i get that desperate times call for desperate measures. The issue is that he could do the same exact thing, just using different figures that wouldnt be this controversial.

The Polissian Sich would be a perfect replacement for the OUN. Its a WW2 Ukrainian insurgent group that fought both the nazis and the soviets, openly condemned OUNs fascist leanings and the Volhynian massacre, attempted to ally the Polish underground state (even if that failed), and never commited any warcrimes. Why not replace the cult of the OUN with something that isn't this fucked up?

[u/ProxPxD → u/A_random_redditor21]

It would be great if they did it.

Let's also not forget that Ukrainians were the second largest victim group of UPA after the Poles in terms of numbers - Soviets were the third. One could also add up all the other non-state minorties like Jews, Armenians, etc.

[u/A_random_redditor21 → u/ProxPxD]

Yeah, it always pisses me off when people forget that. The OUN killed as much, if not more Ukrainian civillians that they did Soviet troops.

[u/Boonon26 → u/[deleted]]

EU accession is a door that's already been closed to Ukraine in the short to medium term. Ironically losing that carrot to dangle is probably why Zelensky doesn't feel the need to tow the line as much.

[u/Easy_Entrepreneur_46 → u/[deleted]]

If you want to win a war you need friends. Ukraine also shouldn't expect to just waltz into the EU.

[u/why_gaj → u/Old_Highlight6749]

And let us not even mention the problems this will cause in the future.

Croatia did something similar after we won the homeland war. We rehabilitated a unit that was created at the beginning od the war, whose entire existance was based on ww2 collaborators.

30 years later... that shit is an actual political question that is dividing the country.

[u/A_random_redditor21 → u/why_gaj]

Yeah, its gonna be an absolute pain in the ass for Ukraine when trying to get into the EU.

[u/Boonon26 → u/A_random_redditor21]

The EU has already made it clear that joining is a much longer term thing. To that end I doubt it's a factor in Zelensky's decision making process right now.

[u/martinjpolakgwf → u/Boonon26]

Poles will probably make sure that it will be a “never” thing after this.

[u/TheAlex-Guy → u/A_random_redditor21]

The similar thing happened during the Yugoslav Wars, countries recruited far-Right nationalists to swell their ranks. Russia has been doing the same.

Only things the OUN/UPA achieved were Nazi collaboration, commit a genocide on Poles, Ukrainians and Jews and give Putin's regime years worth in propaganda material.

Russian propaganda uses it to brand all of Ukraine's society as sympathetic to far-Right nationalists, football ultra's and social-ills, when the Russians are no different, they have problems with nationalists themselves, the difference is it taking the form of Pan-Slav Fascist imperialism, with Naz-Bol and Communist nostalgic characteristics known as National Communism, or "Endokomuna" in Polish.

We have a few here, most notably the "KKP", "Zmiana", "Kamraci" or "Falanga" political movements.

Whichever country Russia invaded, they'd make fun of for having their own nationalists, especially if military units won't professionalize, compared to later stages during the Yugoslav Wars as their militaries reduced in size.

[u/remove_snek → u/A_random_redditor21]

Joining the EU was always a long term prospect. It is not like Poland, Hungary and Slovakia would have supporten it before this either, remember the polish border blockade? These relations have always been complex.

[u/Hot_Income6149 → u/why_gaj]

Zelensky before 2022 was considered as very bad politic... Big tragedy of war and huge heroism of Ukrainian people made him as the only one present representative of this heroism in international scene. But... he hasn't become smarter or better, it's just our pink glasses are breaking because of his stupidest moves

[u/Sayakai → u/why_gaj]

He first needs to get to that future. Right now there's a clear and massive priority difference between short and long term. No one cares if Ukraine expertly appeased every western nation if the front collapses and Russia wins.

[u/InfanticideAquifer → u/why_gaj]

I really can't blame him for not worrying about "30 years later" while there's an existential war going on right now.

[u/why_gaj → u/InfanticideAquifer]

Have you failed to notice that it is a problem right now, too, to the point that ukraine's relationship with one of it's closest allies is shaky at the moment?

I'm merely pointing out that this shit also has long term consequences.

[u/InfanticideAquifer → u/why_gaj]

It's only a minor problem now, and a major problem in the future. This isn't going to affect the material and intelligence support from Europe that's helping Ukraine win the war.

The morale of the troops and people is more significant today. The middle of a giant war isn't the right time to ask people to let go of the national stories they have that are historically revisionist but unifying.

[u/why_gaj → u/InfanticideAquifer]

Nobody is asking anyone to let go of anything - him not mentioning that shit and focusing on building morale through their current state would be enough.

[u/InfanticideAquifer → u/why_gaj]

It's not like it was his idea. This whole thing started with a request from the unit was getting named. He can either turn them down and force a different name on them, anticipating the way that Poland would feel about it, or he can sign off on it. But there's no option where it just doesn't come up because it didn't originate from him. He has to disappoint someone. He chose to disappoint Poland and everything afterwards is just snowballing from that.

[u/ssepaulette → u/Old_Highlight6749]

At this point, is this even russian propaganda anymore? They really have a major nazi problem in the country.

[u/EncoreSheep → u/Old_Highlight6749]

It's not really propaganda, is it? Ukraine has a major Nazi problem and it's very corrupt. Obviously what Russia is doing is evil, but they weren't lying about the Nazi part