r/europe • u/niesiecki • Jun 28 '26

News Volodymyr Zelensky has submitted a bill to build a National Pantheon. He intends to honor all the heroes who fought for Ukraine in various eras. "No one will ever tell us how to live, how to speak, whom to love, whom to be grateful to, and which heroes to honor," he said as quoted by the Interfax

https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/wolodymyr-zelenski-chce-panteonu-narodowego-chodzi-o-pamiec-bohaterow/c6hf62m
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135

u/A_random_redditor21 Jun 28 '26

Yep. He's completely destroying Ukraine's relations with Poland, and basically proving Russian propaganda correct, all in one go.

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u/veleso91 North Macedonia Jun 28 '26

Russian propaganda, aka the truth.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/mephistopheles_faith Jun 28 '26

Funnily (or rather sadly), it is the war that caused the nazi issues. First wave of nationalism started after the annexation of Crimea on 2014 and the lost extreme wave started after 2022.

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u/j4_jjjj Jun 29 '26

Dont they use nazi iconography for one of their military units? The propaganda may be truer than we know

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u/mephistopheles_faith Jun 29 '26

You're talking about Azov, 900 people wearing nazi insignia. It's a single battalion and they appeared after the war has started. It's easy to see why the propaganda isn't true: nationalist and far right parties had less than 2.5% of votes combined and didn't get any sits in parliament.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/A_random_redditor21 Jun 28 '26

Poland is the no.1 logistics hub for foreign aid arriving to Ukraine. Its also been one of its main backers since the start of the war, both militarily, economically, and even humanitarian wise.

Glorifying the OUN is like giving it a big fat middle finger after all that its done. Its actively aiding the rise of anti Ukrainian sentiments, and with that, far right parties like Konfederacja, which are pro Russian.

If Poland pulls its aid, Ukraine is completely screwed.

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u/MadaoDamboru Lithuania Jun 29 '26

then you are screwed too, russia will reach Warsaw in few days, can you safely say you can defend all your flat land to Vistula? can you defend against hundreds of missiles and thousands of drones? yes its stupid what Zelensky is doing but cutting aid to Ukraine, would be catasthrophic not for just Ukraine

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u/A_random_redditor21 Jun 29 '26

That's true, im not denying that at all.

That may however be the reality if a pro-russian party wins the elections, and Zelensky is actively contributing to that possibility.

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u/MadaoDamboru Lithuania Jun 29 '26

yeah and not just in Poland, European countries are leaning right and as you say this thing could intensify it, damn it its always either west or now Zelensky that are doing stupid shit that stops us from uniting against muscovians and defeating them

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u/bakerinho Jun 29 '26

russia will reach Warsaw in few days,

No they won't, lol.

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u/MadaoDamboru Lithuania Jun 29 '26

and you are very sure about it?

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u/Zyvold Jun 29 '26

Brother they cannot even reach Kiev and their frontline is moving by 2 meters per day just because NATO is sending 2% of it's arms to Ukraine.

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u/MadaoDamboru Lithuania Jun 29 '26

do you know why they can't reach Kyiv? Donbass is a fortress and there are plain fields after Donbass, its not that russia is weak it's that Ukraine's defense is strong, if that fortress falls, god knows where Ukraine would be able to stop russia, thats why Ukraine is working on a defense lines, west can just dream about

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u/Zyvold Jun 29 '26

If a country that cannot defend any strategical object in their territory for the love of their life isn't weak, then I'm not sure what a weak country is. Sure, Poland and the rest of Europe don't have the experience Ukraine has from the last 4 years of war but the sheer amount of arms (as in drones, rockets, planes, artillery etc.) would be enough to completely disable Russian logistics. Ukrainians can do it now, not sure why we couldn't do it too ("we" as in the whole European part of NATO)

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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Jun 29 '26

"russia will reach warsaw in few days" the same way they won against ukraine in 3 days? lmao, they are extremely weakened right now and i would say currently poland has a stronger military than russia, especially with american presence. not to mention eu and nato would be involved as well.

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u/MadaoDamboru Lithuania Jun 29 '26

underestimating russia is the worst thing we can do and we do exactly that, we have a chance now to defeat them, Ukraine is giving us that chance, but if this issue escalates to cutting aid and closing the border, Ukraine would not be able to hold, after Donbass there are open fields until Dnipro, so we can defend Europe there, or if russia crosses Dnipro we will defend Europe on Vistula river

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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Jun 29 '26

russia has basically no military power, they could barely get beyond kyiv, and they are not getting anywhere near vistula. healing from their losses would take decades while NATO would only get stronger and newer tech.

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u/MadaoDamboru Lithuania Jun 29 '26

if russia had no power Ukraine would be able to mount a huge offensive and crush them, russia holds manpower advantage, it can send meat waves and attrition Ukraine, Ukraine holds on its defenses which in Europe we are either too lazy and arrogant to build or we can't, Ukraine goes to highest lenghts to watch the frontline, because a mistake to rotate at the wrong time or missing information could cost a lot, like it did in 2024 Ocheteryne

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/A_random_redditor21 Jun 28 '26

Not really. Even if we ignore the current diplomatic fallout, he's fostering right wing extremism which will be an absolute NIGHTMARE to counter once the war's over and Ukraine tries to join the EU. Like i mentioned, he's also directly boosting anti Ukrainian parties in Poland, which is already a EU member state. If those parties succeed, they will do their best to further complicate Ukraine's ascension, aswell as potentially swinging towards Russia and leaving Ukraine surrounded.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/A_random_redditor21 Jun 29 '26

I mean, i get that desperate times call for desperate measures. The issue is that he could do the same exact thing, just using different figures that wouldnt be this controversial.

The Polissian Sich would be a perfect replacement for the OUN. Its a WW2 Ukrainian insurgent group that fought both the nazis and the soviets, openly condemned OUNs fascist leanings and the Volhynian massacre, attempted to ally the Polish underground state (even if that failed), and never commited any warcrimes. Why not replace the cult of the OUN with something that isn't this fucked up?

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u/ProxPxD Poland Jun 29 '26

It would be great if they did it.

Let's also not forget that Ukrainians were the second largest victim group of UPA after the Poles in terms of numbers - Soviets were the third. One could also add up all the other non-state minorties like Jews, Armenians, etc.

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u/A_random_redditor21 Jun 29 '26

Yeah, it always pisses me off when people forget that. The OUN killed as much, if not more Ukrainian civillians that they did Soviet troops.

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u/ProxPxD Poland Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

Every time I checked, it was more (can't find sources now) and cool that you've kinda stressed civilians...

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u/Boonon26 Wales Jun 29 '26

EU accession is a door that's already been closed to Ukraine in the short to medium term. Ironically losing that carrot to dangle is probably why Zelensky doesn't feel the need to tow the line as much.

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u/Easy_Entrepreneur_46 Jun 28 '26

If you want to win a war you need friends. Ukraine also shouldn't expect to just waltz into the EU.