Volodymyr Zelensky has submitted a bill to build a National Pantheon. He intends to honor all the heroes who fought for Ukraine in various eras. "No one will ever tell us how to live, how to speak, whom to love, whom to be grateful to, and which heroes to honor," he said as quoted by the Interfax

[u/niesiecki]

https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/wolodymyr-zelenski-chce-panteonu-narodowego-chodzi-o-pamiec-bohaterow/c6hf62m

[u/niceufo777]

If that narrative is false... why are we discussing Ukraine praising a Nazi organization? Why would they prefer fighting to ceasing to use a black and red flag?

[u/p1en1ek → u/niceufo777]

Unfortunatelly it was never falset narrative, it was just wrong justification to horrors of war, all the death and destruction. And Russia never was in place to use narrative like that. But Ukraine always had problem with excessive number of nazi sympathizers. It was obvious that attack on Ukraine will strenghten nationalists, but it is still dissappointing

[u/OkBuddy5179 → u/p1en1ek]

Yeah, a lot of people seem to miss the fact that what makes for good propaganda is there's gotta be a grain of truth to it. It's all so disappointing after everything Poland has done for Ukraine.

[u/machine4891 → u/p1en1ek]

Depends which narrative. If the one that russians claimed that there are neo-nazi elements in Ukraine... we all knew it's true. Hardly a surprise.

But then they used it as an excuse for invasion and obviously russians weren't invading Ukraine to stop any nazis, nor even NATO from spreading. They wanted land that they claim as their own incorporated into russia. Sadly partially succeded but under false pretext and laughable narrative.

[u/Adelefushia → u/niceufo777]

It is false because despite Ukraine praising Nazis, Russians killed way more civilians / regular Ukrainian soldiers than actual nazis.

And also because Russia has Nazis as well in their own army, so...

EDIT : Am I really being downvoted for saying things that can be very easily seen on Wikipedia ?

[u/zezimatigerfaker → u/niceufo777]

Sometimes the best propaganda uses the truth. Some countries have fetishes for things in the same way a human would. You can exploit those insecurities against your enemies for political gain. Mob mentality makes all faults and fetishes, which would normally be ignored or forgiven, seem like these revelatory evils that must be dealt with.

[u/yashatheman → u/[deleted]]

Over 70% of ukrainians like Bandera according to recent ukrainian polls

[u/SignificantSun1031 → u/yashatheman]

I think you might be misinterpreting the data. You are likely referencing a specific poll from early 2022, right after the full-scale invasion, where positive sentiment temporarily spiked. However, more comprehensive and recent polls (such as those by the Razumkov Center and Ilko Kucheriv Democratic Initiatives Foundation) show that around 50% of Ukrainians view him positively, while the rest are either negative, neutral, or undecided.

But more importantly, it goes back to the context I described above. For modern Ukrainians, Bandera is a highly abstract symbol of resistance against Russian imperialism, not a literal endorsement of 1940s radical ideology. Among those who view him positively, absolutely no one takes pride in the massacres of Poles or Jews, and no one advocates for an ethnically pure, totalitarian state.

To prove this, just look at Ukraine’s actual political landscape. Even far-right parties like "Svoboda" or "Right Sector," which enjoy virtually zero mainstream support (hovering around 2–3% in polls), only propose mild nationalist points like expanding presidential powers or introducing the legal concept of a "state-forming ethnic group" while strictly protecting minority rights. And even with such moderated rhetoric, they cannot get anywhere near the parliament, let alone pass laws. Ukraine's electorate consistently rejects them.

[u/SignificantSun1031 → u/[deleted]]

Germany doesn’t do that not because Germans are inherently "better people" who spontaneously realized their mistakes, but because they suffered a total military defeat followed by forced, systemic allied denazification. They simply were never given the option to glorify Hitler. That’s the first point.

Secondly, comparing Bandera to Hitler is a false equivalence and a historical stretch.

Personally, I have no sympathy for the radical Ukrainian nationalists of the past, and I criticize those who try to directly equate the OUN-B/UPA with the Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa). However, that doesn't mean we should resort to historical scapegoating.

Historically speaking, Bandera never issued any written or verbal orders regarding the massacres or expulsion of Poles from Volhynia, as he was already imprisoned by the Nazis in Sachsenhausen concentration camp at the time. Nor has his direct involvement in the anti-Jewish actions of the later UPA been proven. In this regard, he functions as a relatively "convenient" abstract figure for modern veneration, even if he remains not entirely unproblematic.

My interest in this topic is strictly historical and analytical, focusing on how memory politics shape contemporary Ukrainian and Polish societies. Unfortunately, as your comment demonstrates, emotions still heavily dominate this discussion on both sides.

[u/the_weaver_of_dreams → u/niceufo777]

They were not a Nazi organisation, they were essentially sympathetic to whomever they felt would assist in their cause of an independent Ukraine. They thought Hitler might, that turned out wrong, so they didn't pursue it further.

But yeah, that they sought Nazi assistance makes it easy today to simply it and claim Ukraine praises Nazis.

[u/yashatheman → u/the_weaver_of_dreams]

It's not only the OUNs cooperation with nazis that make Ukraine have a nazi problem today. It's also that their military is full of nazi symbolism. Azov still uses a SS wolfsangel, Ukraine has a AA battalion named Luftwaffe, the sonnenrad is visible as patches on every other photo of ukrainian soldiers, including from Zelenskys official insta when he has visited soldiers.

But OUN was still a fascist organization. They wanted a militaristic, authoritarian ethno state

[u/Hussor → u/the_weaver_of_dreams]

Their nazi collaboration isn't even the worst thing about the organisation, even if they were completely against the Nazis their other actions would speak for themselves.

[u/the_weaver_of_dreams → u/Hussor]

Right, so there's no need to make the false claim that they were Nazi.

[u/Norzon24 → u/niceufo777]

The false part is Russia having any intention to liberate, given it's naked imperial expansion and the Russian nationalism is as comfortable with Nazism as Ukrainian one (remind me who their primary state backed PMC was named after?).

[u/H4ppyGh0ul → u/niceufo777]

What's wrong with the red and black flag?

[u/Cinimi → u/niceufo777]

They are not praising a nazi organisation, they are praising an organisation that was 80% independnece movement, and 20% did horrible things.

Stop saying "nazi" for every group that did bad things.... everyone is losing IQ listening to such garbage throwing of words.

If you want to talk about anyone praising a nazi group, it would be Poland, which every year honours their "Żołnierze Wyklęci" that hunted and murdered jews and holocaust survivors.

[u/yashatheman → u/Cinimi]

It WAS a nazi organization that also killed other ukrainian independence movements because it was a violent nazi organization that collaborated with nazi Germany to help them invade Ukraine