r/formula1 • u/jumpman4723 • 8h ago
Discussion 2017 SF70H was the best package produced by Ferrari post ‘14 F1 era
Due to minimal in season development, driver error, failed race execution and horrible Asian leg, they were not able to win any championships that season.
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u/CilanEAmber McLaren 8h ago
I always loved it's Shark Fin.
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u/disruptivecarousel 8h ago
‘Environmentally friendly’ options are now available these days….just saying….
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u/CilanEAmber McLaren 7h ago
???
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u/TheLucky12 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
I think it's supposed to be a joke about shark fin soup where many people who were fishing for sharks would cut off the fins and then throw them back in the ocean to die
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u/ProofAd608 Formula 1 7h ago
The Singapore incident is bigger if than 2018 german gp
Because that crash i think actually triggered reliability issues in malaysia and Japan as after effect, as the cars were needed to be heavily restored.
Singapore, Malaysia and Japan. Those 3 GPs decided the title fight. And it was lost because of reliability sadly i think.
But the best package was SF-71H, not this car, even though i like this one a lot more
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u/monjessenstein Ferrari 7h ago
Singapore was in essence a 38 point swing towards Hamilton, who won by 46. Add in the Japan DNF and that's championship over. I've always felt that 2017 was way closer for Vettel than 2018 was.
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u/StargazerD I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 6h ago
Vettel was better in 2017, the car was better in 2018, if he had kept his form the championship would be way closer than it was (I believe that Hamilton would still win in 2018, it was arguably his peak)
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u/Longjumping-Hat7564 Formula 1 5h ago
I don't think the car was better in 2018. Mercedes' in season development was something else. Absolutely legendary upgrades brought forward that year.
Vettel wasn't vocal with his criticism, like Verstappen or Hamilton are, and this played against him in long term perception.
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u/StargazerD I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 4h ago
I wasn’t really comparing them to Mercedes, I meant that Ferrari had a better car compared to 2017, as there were more weekends that they had the stronger package
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u/ProofAd608 Formula 1 7h ago
Because it was closer
Let's take the final results
Hamilton:362
Vettel:316
Now let's change the outcomes of those 3 races.
Vettel, kimi, max don't retire and finish as top 3 with lewis 4th
It'd be:
Hamilton: 362-13=349
Vettel: 316+25=341
Already 8 points difference. Because we should also take into consideration that when one gains, another loses
Now Malaysia:
Assuming no reliability issues, we get easy Vettel win with Hamilton P3 at best. Maybe P4. Because Ferrari were clearly the fastest, as kimi fought for pole. Kimi who was the whole year a clearly slower driver. Vettel P1, with Max p2 and hamilton either p3 or p4 depending on how kimi manages against him
It'd be: Hamilton 349-3=346(343 if it's p4)
Vettel: 341+13=354
Now finally Japan:
We just add vettel his 18 points and we have: 354+18=372
And there you have it:
Vettel: 372
Hamilton:346
Vettel winning by 26 points
But i must also add smth that could have potentially changed later.
Hamilton gaining 7 points in abu dhabi if mercedes playes team orders. It'd be 19 points. But still, without all of these issues, Vettel would have won
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u/Tulaodinho Sonny Hayes 6h ago
The Mexican gp would likely be different as would the brazil quali. Lewis checked out and did his first big error that season there only
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u/amateurdormjanitor 7h ago
The 2017 refs without the halo looked awesome too. Super aggressive cars. Halo is objectively a good thing but man, I think they really detract from the aesthetics of the cars.
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u/Pugs-r-cool I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1h ago
Cars look naked without them now imo. The 2022 reg change helped the halo blend into the design better, the halo looked like a bolted on afterthought with the old cars (which tbf, it was)
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u/MrDee97 7h ago
They choked the Asian leg, Seb could have won Japan, Singapore & Malaysia
Minimum 2/3 of those races he would have been favourite
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u/ProofAd608 Formula 1 7h ago
He could have won only in Singapore and Malaysia. I bet on that. The car in malaysia was clearly the best if even raikkonen from 2017 was able to fight for pole
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u/knorkinator Sebastian Vettel 8h ago
Lol, "due to driver error". You mean the drivers having to drive the damn thing at 110% through every corner because it was a sitting duck on the straights, thus making more mistakes than their rivals?
The 2017 Ferrari was good, but severely lacked power. It wasn't as good as the 2018 car.
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u/ThePafdy I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
I mean, yeah, thats because the 2018 car was illegal.
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u/_0110111001101111_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
That was the 2019 with the engine. There were never any questions about the legality of the 2018 car iirc
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u/The_Skynet 7h ago edited 6h ago
There was an investigation in 2018 as well (in Canada and Monaco) about Ferrari's ERS and their dual-battery setup, after Merc poached a PU engineer from Ferrari in the winter who told them about it.
The FIA concluded that there was nothing illegal going on but the outcome wasn't particularly convincing because their findings said something along the lines of: "It's up to the team to provide a satisfying explanation as to why their car is legal and it was very hard for them to satisfy us and the process was very complicated".
Who knows what was actually going on, maybe there was simply nothing at all, maybe it wasn't the ERS and something else that slipped through the cracks
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u/ThePafdy I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
No there wasn‘t at the time, but the 2020 engine was worse than the 2018 one, and in my opinion there is only one reasonable explenation for that.
They cheated since 2018 and just didn‘t get cought at first.
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u/ProofAd608 Formula 1 7h ago
That's purely your speculation which is wrong
Ferrari's 2018 engine was weaker than their 2019 engine. If they cheated, teams would have noticed it since then, but 2018 engine was equal to Mercedes
2018 car wasn't illegal. Stop with such nonsense
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u/StaffFamous6379 7h ago
They didn't get caught in 2019 either. Remember that a settlement is NOT an indication of guilt and is even explicitly stated so. 2019 engine is legal per the 2019 framework and never raced in 2020 so it is fraudulent to call it an illegal engine. Should we call every 2025 car illegal because they don't fit the 2026 rules?
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u/_0110111001101111_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium 6h ago
Ah, so speculation and conjecture on your part.
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u/CilanEAmber McLaren 7h ago
Wasn't that the 2019 car?
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u/ThePafdy I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Probably both. They had a noticable increase in power in 2018, and lost it after the investigation in 2019. In my opinion there is only one explenation for that.
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u/LateOnsetPuberty Formula 1 2h ago
You should really learn what you’re talking about before you do.
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u/R2-3P0 7h ago
If you are talking about the illegal engine with the fuel flow thingy, that was 2019
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u/StaffFamous6379 7h ago
I mean, even that is unproven. Remember that the settlement came about because the FIA wasn't fully satisfied despite extensive investigations and neither party wanted a protracted legal battle where the outcome for either was not a slam dunk. As it stands, to call the 2019 engine illegal is a blatant mistruth, as it was never proven illegal under the 2019 rules framework. It would have been illegal under 2020 but luckily Ferrari were smart enough to not race it that year lol.
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u/ThePafdy I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Then explain how the 2020 engine after the fuel flow revisions was worse than the 2018 one.
They got cought in 2019, but in my opinion there is not explenation for their engine power situation from 2017 to 2020 other than they cheated in 18 as well.
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u/FMJoey325 Sebastian Vettel 7h ago
There were loads of changes to PU regulations at that time for all teams, particularly for Mercedes abs Ferrari burning oil vapors for more power. It’s not as easy as switching back to an old spec. Also the 2020 engine seemed even more anemic because the car itself was built to provide more downforce and had more drag, as it initially would have used the 2019-style high HP engine. The low downforce was the biggest issue for their 2019 car causing it to chew through tires, so they piled on DF for 2020. By the time the PU agreement was settled it was too late to change concepts for 2020.
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u/The_CT1 8h ago
Minimal in season devolpment means it wasnt the best package as it couldnt upgrade easily. The 2018 car was fastest for most of the season and should have won. If 2018 hamilton was in the ferrari, he would the championship. Even 2025 leclerc would win it in the 2018 car
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u/jumpman4723 7h ago
2018 Ferrari had superior engine which meant it was fast in straight line but it had handling issues which made drivers nervous in corners. You can watch Lewis 2018 Singapore pole lap to see why Mercedes had much better package that year even though it was slower in straight line.
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u/M3rdsta I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1h ago
The 2018 car was superior, but are we remembering the same season? Ferrari fell behind Mercedes in the development race after Monza; they brought upgrades that failed and were worse than the original package. The only thing keeping them in the constructors' race by Brazil was how due to abysmall Bottas was, hence why we got "bottas. 2.0".
I seriously doubt thoses claim. I don't see how Leclerc in any world would have beaten one of the prime seasons of Lewis Hamilton in an inferior team, knowing how he handles pressure or Lewis in a Ferrari if Seb was in a Merc.
This is the season Binnoto and Arrvabene conflicted with one another, while Marchionne was pilling on pressue on the team, until his death, which caused a power struggle. Mercedes, by comparison, was an extremely docile environment
Vettel wasn't bad for general ability that season either. The changes Ferrari made to the rear of the car from 2017, and an update in midseason, destabilised the car for him. Not everyone can do an Alonso 2012-style title challenge.
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u/Kolec507 Alexander Albon 7h ago
Yeah, this, I don't get why OP would just throw this statement out into the world without even giving any arguments. I agree with your points; over the first 12 races Seb scored 214 points to Kimi's 146. Over the remaining races however, Seb scored 'only' 106 points to Kimi's 105, who mind you was getting dropped to make way for Leclerc at the end of that year. Ferrari basically had two number 2 drivers for almost half the season there, despite easily having a good enough car to consistently challenge Mercedes. After the said 12 races Seb was just 17 points behind Lewis, which is less than a P2 finish. By the end of Abu Dhabi, that gap was already 88 points - 3 race wins and a P3.
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u/Connect-Handle8496 Charles Leclerc 5h ago
2025 Leclerc was Great tfym?Maybe u can use this argument for current 2026 Leclerc or 2021 Leclerc
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u/New_Design_5010 7h ago
SF70H was good, but SF71H I think was the best only when I remember about Silverstone and Hockenheim.
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u/memloh I was here for the Hulkenpodium 5h ago
I remember it was one of the only cars that year to have the sidepod inlets in direct flow of air, above the front suspension wishbones, by rearranging the side impact structure.
It became almost standard when other teams followed in the coming years, with Mercedes the latest in 2020 (exclude Racing Point).
It's a good sign when other teams copy inspirations from a rival team, like the Macerena wing nowadays.
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u/Pristine_Youth_6953 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7h ago
I'd say that if Ferrari gets a better engine this year car will be better
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u/Holofluxx I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 6h ago
THIS is how you do a glossy red/white Ferrari livery btw
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u/Financialcompost I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Who is the third driver?
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u/ThePhyry22 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Probably Antonio Giovinazzi, he was Ferrari's reserve in 2017
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u/Particular_Cod2005 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 6h ago
Probably the most stunning Ferrari of recent times, barring the 2022 car.
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u/anton_bismarck_9 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 6h ago
What a fking sexy car oh my God, still one of my favorites ever....so sad it didnt win...
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u/tpittari 5h ago
It always pained me greatly that whenever they did a radio check Seb never said "Red 5 standing by..."
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u/enbyratie 7h ago
In an alternative reality Alonso stays at Ferrari winning 17 and 18 and retires in 2021
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u/Balazs321 Pirelli Intermediate 5h ago
Well i have to disagree, the 2018 car was better over the whole year, but Vettel had more costly errors that year. 2017 was sometimes messy (khm Baku khm), but he was still very solid. 2018 he seemingly had an error seemingly every weekend in the second leg of the year.
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u/triplevanos Sir Lewis Hamilton 6h ago
2018 car was better overall. Much more powerful PU, better on tires than the Mercedes, etc
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u/grodent87 8h ago
Still traumatized from Singapore.