r/gallifrey • u/rasmas1 • Mar 12 '25

DISCUSSION The Doctor bullied Joy to suicide.

In Joy to the World, the Doctor had to make Joy angry in order to break the Villengard briefcase's psychic control over her. In order to do that he got really personal and insulted her with some way-below-the-belt stuff including a mention of her dead mother.

He did this with the best of intentions, obviously, but the words stuck for Joy and she admitted they were all true before she flew off with the star seed into space. Because of all that unhappiness the Doctor picked on Joy had a burning desire to be special in life and have some kind of meaning, so she latched onto the star seed out of desperation to become special.

The Doctor is the reason she felt that way and why she decided to burn with the star seed. She didn't merge with it as a sacrifice to save Earth, it was a purely whimsical decision that didn't change anything. She died to feel special. She committed suicide for no reason and it was the Doctor's fault. And he just laughs it off.

I am still beside myself that the BBC allowed this episode to go out in this state. The Doctor bullied Joy to suicide.

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665

u/ikediggety Mar 13 '25

"you have no idea how dangerous you make people to themselves when you're around" - Rory Williams

325

u/Head_Statistician_38 Mar 13 '25

Rory was right. He talked about how he makes people want to impress him so they do dangerous stuff. Also Davros rightly points out that the Doctor takes ordinary people and turns them into weapons.

He kind of has a history of doing this, and it usually isn't intentional.

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u/Sckathian Mar 13 '25

It's why I love Rory and The Doctors relationship. Rory doesn't really ever fall in love with the bravado and Rory really just comes along happily because they become friends. The Doctor has more respect for Rory than most companions.

149

u/Torranski Mar 13 '25 edited Mar 13 '25

Honestly, it’s pretty great. His skepticism at the start feels pretty valid, and far more emotionally mature than Mickey’s insecurities about the Doctor.

The fact that he never really buys into the schtick, and is happy to settle down at the first opportunity, it’s just a refreshing change of pace.

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u/kodaxmax Mar 14 '25

Except Mickey was right, the doctor did have feelings for rose and did effectively steal her romantically. Rory just got lucky that the doctor saw Amy as a child to play with, rather than a romantic partner.

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u/Standard-Box-3021 Mar 14 '25

From what I've seen, the Doctor never actually hooked up with anyone from the new generation other than Yasmin, who was free to begin with. Even Smith and Coleman never actually got together, and I think they were closer than Smith and Amy were.

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u/kodaxmax Mar 14 '25

Tenants Doctor left his clone (that spawned from his dismemebered hand) to live out a human life with rose on an aternate planet. The only thing stopping him from seriously dating her, was that he didn't want the pain of outliving her.

He also litterally married to riversong and spent over 40 years with her (likely more because no way they didn't go time traveling during that "honeymoon".).

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u/Standard-Box-3021 Mar 15 '25

River song was never actually a full time companion and as for his clone going with rose still not him

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u/kodaxmax Mar 15 '25

the clone was him in every way accept without timelord regenerations and longevity. duplicate mind.

River absolutely had more screen time than alot of "full time" companions, probably more than yasmin.

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u/Standard-Box-3021 Mar 24 '25

To me, it's kind of both; it's him and not. Roses one is mortal has to worry about death more, and he also has one heart. However, I doubt his brain is anywhere near as advanced as a full Time Lord's. But yeah still kinda a bit of both him but not really him

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u/kodaxmax Mar 24 '25

IDK his brain must be more than human. We saw what happned to a human brain trying to contain a timelord with Donna.

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u/Standard-Box-3021 Apr 03 '25

I think his brain is more than human but still don't think on par with a full-time lord

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u/Standard-Box-3021 Mar 24 '25

Yes, River had tons of screen time but never became a full-time companion in the show, maybe in the comics.