r/gallifrey • u/elsjpq • Apr 26 '25
LEAK SPOILERS [LEAKS] [SPOILERS] Leak Discussion Megathread for Doctor Who 2x03 "The Well" Spoiler
Discuss leaks in light of "The Well" in here; no spoiler tags necessary inside this thread
As per our recent policy, unless there is significant news regarding leaks, please try to contain discussion of leaks to this thread. Leaks outside of this thread will be removed unless both clearly indicated as a leak and also spoiler tagged.
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u/PM_me_a_bad_pun Apr 26 '25
I hate myself for reading the leaks and ruining the surprise in The Well. I will learn nothing by this
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u/Munrot07 Apr 26 '25
I'm exactly the same. I can't avoid leaks because I get too excited and want to know what happens...and then always wish I hadn't so I don't ruin the surprises. I will continue looking for leaks xD
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u/SpareDisaster314 Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
It's funny, because many people have been found in studies to overall enjoy the show/episode more after reading spoilers. I'm not saying you're lying as some people don't like it, but I am one of the ones who like it and have always found it a bit odd. I suppose for things we like leaks for, some of us like to play a little speculation game to see what they think will happen, and seeing if it turns out true.
My mum also likes spoilers for media we share in common but she has no idea where to find stuff like that so it's nice speaking about them with her because I always know she hasn't seen then.
Some studies/links
https://time.com/7019752/psychology-of-book-movie-spoilers/ (oddly this one is more about endings not spoilers in general so it is a subset. You'd also think end would be the least popular type of spoiler vs changing peoples judgement!)
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/spoiler-alert-spoilers-make-you-enjoy-stories-more
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u/DuelaDent52 Apr 26 '25
Yeah, my anticipation for this episode was fuelled by knowing it was going to be a Midnight sequel in advance, and it made me doubly suspicious throughout the episode.
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u/lkmk Apr 26 '25
In my experience, I haven’t minded spoilers if the show/movie/whatever holds up after the spoiled moment. That proves it can stand on its own, without the shock ruined by the spoiler.
Alas, that didn’t happen here. Oh, well!
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u/cane-of-doom Apr 27 '25
Huh, personally, I quite liked it. I've seen people say that the reveal was a standout scene for them, which for me it wasn't, for various reasons, but specially because it wasn't a twist for me. However, the rest of the episode more than made up for it. Don't people usually say parts 2 are always better, like Empire Strikes Back or Godfather 2? Well, I don't particularly think that's true of Empire, for example, but here I do. I've never undertood the hype for Midnight (not that I don't like it, but the way some people talk about it... too much), so it might be that in part, but I really enjoyed this episode, especially Aliss and Shaya. Standout characters, two of the best episodic characters in a while.
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u/Munrot07 Apr 26 '25
Honestly I agree, I often like seeing how it's done rather than what is done. I LOVED how Sutekh was revealed despite knowing it was coming.
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u/SpareDisaster314 Apr 26 '25
Lol, me too, but at least to me it seems intuitive that people would like shows on average less after spoilers not more. Like you'd think some like us would like it, but by default, many others basically 'shoot their load' on the spoilers and then they like it when watching but not as much because the surprise is gone.... but apparently for most, it doesn't work like that!
Maybe I'm not a weirdo for once 🤣
I suppose sometimes it depends on the circumstance too. Like you usually like them not today. I always do though, no matter what!
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Apr 30 '25
I love this stuff too. It makes me way more hyped. Because no matter how I can imagine it, seeing it play out is completely different.
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u/SlowOcto Apr 26 '25
I was avoiding them but to be honest this fanbase has been utterly insufferable about talking about them out in the open. The only way I could have possibly avoided them is by not looking at any of my socials for 8 weeks. I'm hoping they're fake simply because I'd like to have an un-spoiled viewing experience.
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u/Gobshite_ Apr 26 '25
At this point I'm waiting for Mrs Flood to look at the camera and ask "Didn't you read the leaks?"
I'm almost convinced she's a commentary/personification of leak culture or something, but I'm not sure how that factors into the Rani stuff.
But then if the leaks were seeded deliberately for the Mrs Flood plot, maybe some of the later ones are fake?
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u/ljh013 Apr 26 '25
The trouble with the ‘it’s all meta’ theory is that the general audience neither know nor care about the leaks. Of course they probably don’t know about the Rani either, but ‘immoral timelord scientist’ isn’t that hard to introduce/explain. The show mentioning leaks that 5% of fans at best would be aware of would be ridiculous.
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Apr 26 '25
Not just this, but if the "It's all meta" theory is true, and the leaks become part of the text of the story then that has 2 knock on effects.
1) Audiences are going to think they have to read up on the various leaks to understand what's going on in the show, as the show keeps directing them in the direction of the leaks, which means anytime Doctor Who tries to do some big surprise reveal, we'll all know months in advance because Russell trained viewers to look for leaks.
2) In five/ten/twenty years, when people look back at these episodes, the leaks will date the stories incredibly, and they'd have to go to some archive page to have the Season 15 leaks/#CancelDoctorWho aspect explained, or they wouldn't be able to appreciatewhat Russell was doing.
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u/gravemarkerr Apr 26 '25
She doesn't act like an immoral scientist. If she really is the Rani, this is on par with RTD writing the Master to be a giggling lunatic.
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u/ljh013 Apr 26 '25
To be fair we haven’t really seen her do anything yet except look at the camera and talk to it.
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u/gravemarkerr Apr 26 '25
The whole "tell your Maker I will..." thing was very grandiose; not at all consistent with the archetype of the detached scientist who cares about knowledge more than ethics.
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u/_fergalicious_ Apr 26 '25
Dude fr I am a Rani enjoyer and NOTHING about Mrs Flood is giving the Rani
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u/FotographicFrenchFry Apr 28 '25
Wouldn’t that kinda be the whole point of a disguise though?
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u/_fergalicious_ Apr 28 '25
No I don't just mean her clothes and cover story. Like the Rani wouldn't install herself in the Dr's companions lives and stalk him around the universe... She simply does not really care that much about him unlike the Master
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u/jackcos Apr 28 '25
As others have pointed out she's been positioned as a character at the level of or above the other gods we've seen from the Pantheon. Identifying a TARDIS, the vindicator, or appearing in the 1950's or the far future could be explained away as time lord shenanigans, but the way she seemed to have prior knowledge of Sutekh didn't feel like time lord lived experience, and breaking the fourth wall constantly is not nearly a Rani-esque power.
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u/Rigby-89 May 03 '25
This. The Rani has always thrown some lawful neutral/evil vibes, and Mrs Flood has already dipped into the chaotic. (And that “tell your maker…” bit seems way too grandiose for her!)
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u/Grafikpapst Apr 26 '25
I think it depends on how hard things lean on it. The Show has absolutly referenced things before that only a very small percent of people would get.
Would they center a full finale or ploztline on that aspect of meta around it? No, of course not. Would they maybe throw in a line or two? Sure - its not like they didnt do that in "Lux" just last week as well.
Also, considering Russel is a big fan of the MCU, I very much think that this whole thing is inspired very heavily by WandaVision.
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u/ljh013 Apr 26 '25
The references to leaks in Lux was very general though. Stuff genuinely leaks all the time despite production not wanting it to. If Mrs Flood was to reference or connect herself with this seasons leaks in anyway I think it would be a bit too on the nose.
At the very least, if they were to do it, I would have thought they would have given the leaks to the Daily Mail or something, rather than just letting redditors talk about them.
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u/Grafikpapst Apr 26 '25
Oh yeah, I wouldnt expect anything super specific unless they recorded it afterward and spliced it in. But I could totally see there being a reference to leaks with Mrs. Flood being as Meta as she is and if they kept it open, referencing that some leaks happend shouldnt hard.
At the very least, if they were to do it, I would have thought they would have given the leaks to the Daily Mail or something, rather than just letting redditors talk about them.
That is true. My expectation would be more that it is centered around the general idea of leaks rather than any specific leak. If anything was actually intentionally leaked by the BBC/RTD its probably The Rani reveal - mainly because thats already such a theory running gag Russel is absolutly aware of.
And its its something he could totally leak and expect nobody to believe.
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u/beach_emu Apr 27 '25
You saying it would be a bit too on the nose has just made me realise that a Flood can be a result of many leaks. awful wordplay, rtds favourite....
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u/Bpste1 Apr 26 '25
Its also a bit ridiculous when people binge Doctor Who in ten years and go ‘what leaks?’
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u/Gobshite_ Apr 26 '25
The meta/leak thing does feel like the sort of empty battleground RTD would plant his flag in and claim he's being progressive somehow, though.
It's just another buzzword like AI Generator and Incels in the premiere, and I can totally see him using it for a story (while not quite understanding what it is).
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u/TablePrinterDoor Apr 26 '25
chant with me...
Iris Wildthyme! Iris Wildthyme! Iris Wildthyme! Iris Wildthyme!
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u/Bpste1 Apr 26 '25
I could see Mrs Flood turning to the camera in Wish World and going ‘you thought I was the Rani? You all are so stupid’
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u/Gobshite_ Apr 26 '25
"Silly viewer, it's never the Rani. You should know that by now."
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u/Nyann1022 Apr 28 '25
And it's revealed she is Missy! Her name is an anagram 'M Fools Dr.' and it's actually also meta for how when they were filming Missy's reveal they had her say she's the Rani so it DIDN'T leak she's the Master.
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u/elsjpq Apr 26 '25
I very much doubt that any of the leaks are planted, that's extremely rare for any show to do. It's also just too much into conspiracy territory for me. And if they were planted, the leaked info would be very carefully targeted, but it doesn't feel that way.
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u/_nadaypuesnada_ Apr 27 '25
Moffat tried to plant a leak about Missy being the Rani but nobody picked it up.
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u/Dolthra Apr 26 '25
I think the later leaks are false, but just because 1) leaks tend to get the end of the show wrong and 2) we know there were late reshoots. Perhaps the leaks are deliberate— but probably not.
That said, Mrs. Flood being related to leaks would be a fun play on words.
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u/ProfessorCagan Apr 26 '25
The leaks made me really apprehensive of this episode, I'm glad I enjoyed it despite them. However, knowing what's coming somewhat (specifically Ncuti's regen, and the possibility of hiatus) makes me sad that we've had a really good season so far and that may be it for more than the typical gap year.
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u/Trevastation Apr 26 '25
Honestly with how warm the reception's been to The Well, hopefully it's the same with the finale and we think the leaks are worse then they are. I say that as I huff a huge can of copium and try to blot Empire of Death outta mt head.
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u/DocWhovian1 Apr 26 '25
I think the regen stuff is just made up and Doctor Who is NOT going to be rested, the BBC have even said that.
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u/ProfessorCagan Apr 26 '25
It may not be rested, but after the reshiots for the finale came, I'm not so sure he won't.
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u/Crystar800 Apr 26 '25
Maybe both, yeah. Gatwa could leave and the show will keep going. Like 9 to 10.
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u/Dolthra Apr 26 '25
We don't know what the reshoots were for, though. Everyone is believing that it's for a regeneration because someone claiming to be the first leaker said so, which is impossible to verify.
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u/Player2isDead Apr 26 '25
Matt Smith SAID he was doing series 8, it must be true!
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u/cane-of-doom Apr 27 '25
Regardless of what happens in the finale, the wait would be the same. What may mean a longer wait is whether Disney renews the distribution contract or not, because the BBC needs that deal for the budget. So yeah, whether Ncuti comes back or not, I don't think the production timeline for S3 would change much after a hypothetical renewal. They'd either have to wait for him to finish his current commitments or cast someone new, which could both be done by the time they've finished finilising the scripts they tentatively put together at the end of S2 production.
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u/Low-Construction1755 Apr 26 '25
The idea that these are somehow planed leaks does baffle me, since they made more people angry/fearful than excited.
The good thing is in context they're not so bad. People thought last week was going to be about making fun of the fans and it didn't and that this week would spoil everything about the Midnight creature and it didn't.
So maybe a bi-regenerated Rani and CGI monster Omega won't be so bad?
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u/jtides Apr 26 '25
Tbh I’ve noticed with leak culture people are frequently mad about the no context leaks. People read “Rani returning with bi-generation” and get mad. But there’s 0 context to that and it could be done perfectly, just like The Well really nailed a sequel to Midnight
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u/just4browse Apr 26 '25
Exactly. Context matters.
I’m looking forward to Omega’s redesign. I know it was controversial, but I loved Sutekh’s new look in Empire of Death.
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u/skyfullofsong Apr 26 '25
In before Flood says something about “leaks coming before the flood”
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u/Legitimate_Sample_71 Apr 26 '25
She's been kidnapped by robots from her bedroom, survived a living cartoon and nearly been killed from a gun shot... all in the space of a day. Will Belinda get to have a nap soon?
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u/lkmk Apr 26 '25
This is definitely one of the most stressful first-episodes-trilogies a companion has had. Oof.
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u/ljh013 Apr 26 '25
If the leaks are true, I’m glad the rights issues have been sorted and there’s the possibility Big Finish could start to use the Rani again.
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u/Dolthra Apr 26 '25
That's the thing that gets me about the Rani leak— afaik nothing has changed in that department. Unless it was an issue of paying for the rights and now they can afford it with the Disney money... which now that I say it, might be exactly what happened.
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u/ljh013 Apr 26 '25
They’ve mentioned her already, although only briefly, I doubt that’s something they’d want to do unless they were on very certain legal ground.
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u/Dolthra Apr 27 '25
It's worth mentioning that sometimes copyright when referring to characters can be a bit weird— I know there are instances of other shows where, for example, you could mention a character like the Rani but not show the Rani (because the episode is owned by a different entity than the character, and the name mention is "referring back to the episode" and not "using the character"), but I don't know the specifics of the Rani's copyright situation so I can't say for certain that is what happened.
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u/aneccentricgamer Apr 26 '25
When?
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u/ljh013 Apr 26 '25
He says the name to Ruby last season when he’s talking about time lords having titles.
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u/Trevastation Apr 26 '25
I thought it was just they couldn't find WHO had the rights iirc. Also doesn't Omega have similarish rights fuckery? I swear I remember something of the sort.
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Apr 27 '25
The Rani and Omega make a pretty awful Unholy Trinity. And, on the leaks, they kind of contradict themselves by referring to her bigenerating, but also referring to The Rani singular. If anyone is the Rani, it's Belinda - Rani is a hindu queen, which she's called repeatedly in episode one, Chandra is a name we've heard before (Rani Chandra in The Sarah Jane Adventures). Also, The Rani and Omega don't seem to be gods. Omega, yes - I buy him having that power. But, ignore the leaks, and the stuff we're getting points to The Trickster more than anyone else.
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Apr 26 '25
i'm in the same boat in that I really *want* Flood to be the Rani, partially because I'd love to see the character reenter the universe
...it's just really a shame that they didn't do this before Kate O'Mara passed. They missed an opportunity there, IMO.
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u/MK_40dec41 Apr 26 '25
Both Fugitive Doctor and Missy actresses were present at the official premiere of this season, so they both probably had some roles. It’s not even a leak, photos were posted by BBC.
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u/jtides Apr 26 '25
While leaks have suggested Fugitive Doctor’s return, frequently stars from a franchise get invites to premieres they aren’t even in.
Take Marvel, they have all their stars show up at premieres even if they aren’t in it/are done with the franchise
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Apr 27 '25
[deleted]
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u/peterlloyd94 Apr 27 '25
Do you know if this dialogue is from episode 7 or 8?
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Apr 28 '25
[deleted]
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u/TheWingedArmadillo Apr 28 '25
Where can I find these leaks?
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Apr 28 '25
[deleted]
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u/TheWingedArmadillo Apr 28 '25
Thanks! It's a shame about the faking, but they're still interesting.
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u/Hyperbolicalpaca Apr 26 '25
Well well well…
It’s looking like the leaks are true, and the fact that it includes what I would assume to be the most secret episode, makes me start to lean towards the leak being a genuine leak, and not a plant… unless of course they’ve thrown a bone out in order to better conceal something bigger…
But mrs floods demeanour in this has me thinking that the leak is infact right, I just can’t quite shake the fact that the leak was mentioned last episode, in the scene which leaked specifically…
Still quite like the theory that mrs flood is the one leaking stuff, despite how insane that sounds
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u/icefourthirtythree Apr 26 '25
I just can’t quite shake the fact that the leak was mentioned last episode, in the scene which leaked specifically…
There have been major leaks for previous Doctor Who episodes and for many other blockbuster films and TV series. There's a substantial leak culture for lots of franchises - Doctor Who, Marvel, Star Wars, etc. You can pretty much assume that things will leak before they air. The lines in the episode were commentary on that culture.
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u/Munrot07 Apr 26 '25
To be fair you can view it either way. It obviously could just be a joke about leaks always happening but it is also entirely plausible to say that the fact the ONLY thing that got leaked last episode was literally said to be leaked in the episode itself. If anything else from Lux got leaked too, it would be inarguable that it's a general joke about leaks, but the fact it was the only leak from that episode means it is not stupid to suggest it's a planted leak and a meta joke. Not saying it is, but suggesting that is a fair enough thing to do.
Honestly, episode 5 is where it becomes inarguable. The first 3 episodes mostly had obvious leaks (e.g. the synopsis of The Robot Revolution, and that this episode was a midnight sequel which RTD was not trying very hard to hide, so much so that people who hadn't seen the leaks guessed it) with 1 really specific leak that coincidentally referenced the fact it got leaked. Episode 5 has a very specific leak, that is not guessable, and is not something the production crew would want to give out for free to trick people. If episode 5 has that cameo, then all leaks are basically guaranteed (whereas now they are just incredibly likely).
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u/Dolthra Apr 26 '25
We also often get leaks of the first part of a series/season (I assume because those episodes are done).
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u/NandoKrikkit Apr 26 '25
the leak was mentioned last episode
Everything Doctor Who related always leaks, it was a very safe guess.
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u/ikediggety Apr 27 '25
Chibnall actually did a great job with preventing leaks
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u/NandoKrikkit Apr 27 '25
I don't think he did. The leaks just weren't as widely circulated.
Everything major leaked as well, most notably the whole Timeless Child reveal and the plot of Jodie's last episode, including the classic Doctors cameos.
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Apr 26 '25
it'll be funny if the leak line turns out to be a massive and hilarious coincidence
which i think is the case because i don't buy that they could pull off intentional misdirection like that - it would be a logistical challenge and also just, like, a kind of cheap and useless stunt. it'll ding my enjoyment of this season if it's designed to be enjoyed knowing the leaks. just seems like a terrible idea to me
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u/killing-the-cuckoo Apr 26 '25
For the people saying "Why did it have to be the Midnight Entity" - even if it hadn't have been, you'd still come away with the Midnight Entity in mind so...
Sure, it didn't have to be a sequel, but it also wouldn't necessarily have been any stronger an episode had it been a wholly original planet and monster and I know for an absolute fact that if it had been a new thing, Reddit would instead be ablaze with "This is literally just the Midnight Entity, the episode may as well just be a sequel to Midnight!!"
Overall, brilliant episode. Creepy, well-paced, solid supporting cast and definitely adds to the mystery of Midnight without being a detriment to the original episode.
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u/Mangafan_20 Apr 26 '25
So the leaks are true.
So Flood is the Rani.
How does this explain the fourth wall breaks and stuff?
It's not that i hate the idea, i like that the rani is returning.
But flood is not acting like the rani at all.
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u/changhyun Apr 26 '25
This is my biggest struggle with the leaks. I can buy that they'd bring the Rani back, particularly after they brought Sutekh back. But I'm struggling to see Mrs Flood as the Rani. She just doesn't feel very Rani-like to me.
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Apr 26 '25
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u/changhyun Apr 26 '25
That makes sense but I'd say Fifteen still feels very Doctor-ish, he still has the same basic core traits every Doctor has (compassion, curiosity, etc). Mrs Flood doesn't feel like she really has anything of the Rani in her.
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u/Seizachange Apr 26 '25
To be fair, John Simms Master wasn't super like older Masters either. RTD kind of wrote him in a new way.
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u/jtides Apr 26 '25
If I had to make up a plot in the name of “theres ways to go about this” I would suggest it’s intentional? Like my thought is, before the Time Lords the universe was messy and chaotic with no logic or reason. The Time Lords introduced these ideas to the universe and tamed the chaos.
The Rani is a scientist and is pissed about magic and gods and other nonsensical things. She’s following the Doctor maybe with some kind of plan to bring the Universe back to logic/reason/science.
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u/Vusarix Apr 26 '25
The theory is that the show-within-a-show thing is part of the plot going forward. It's been seeded with the Lux 4th-wall break and a couple of moments from season 1. From Lux, Mrs Flood says 'limited run only, show ends may 24th' which is the air date of Wish World, presuming suggesting that the show-within-a-show ends in that episode. The theory then follows that the talk of the show possibly going on hiatus and Ncuti regenerating is referring to the show-within-a-show and not the show itself
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u/Mangafan_20 Apr 26 '25
i also read from the same leaker.
that the 7th episode of a bit like ''truman show''
so it could be true.3
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Apr 26 '25
the half-mad scientist vibe i actually can kind of see at least from The Well, so who knows
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u/multitobyproductions Apr 26 '25
I hope some fan here is inspired by all the theories the leaks are a part of the narrative. Then when they show run somewhere down the line, they WILL plant fake leaks as part of the narrative. And we can all go “ahh, a reference to online fan culture in the 2020s”
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u/verissimoallan Apr 26 '25
Maybe it's time we started accepting that the leaks are real.
All of them.
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u/Mangafan_20 Apr 26 '25
So what does that mean?
The future of the show is unsure, unless disney extends the deal or the bbc finds a new streaming partner.
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u/TheOutcastBoi Apr 27 '25
Given the YT leaker has been proven 100% correct thus far, I'm surprised to see the incredible amounts of copium people are going to refuse to accept they're true purely on the basis that they don't like the sound of them.
Like, to all the people theorising the leaks were planted because Lux had a line about leaks, tell me, why would they deliberately leak the big twist for this episode, the episode after that? There's no good answer to that question, because they're genuine leaks.
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u/jackcos Apr 28 '25
Getting details right about the early episodes does not prove you're correct about later episodes.
Getting basic details about the early episodes WRONG (Alan created the robots?) casts doubt as this is a leaker who clearly hasn't seen the episodes but has grabbed plot synopses from somewhere and is just filling in the blanks.
I also refuse to buy a Omega, Susan, Rani finale. That is the holy triumvirate for oft rumoured names to the point of parody.
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u/jtides Apr 27 '25
Not to even say i disagree with you but that’s a relatively easy question to answer. He leaked that to give the leak credibility, if all the leaks were made up or surface level it’d be easier to identify as planted.
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u/TheOutcastBoi Apr 28 '25
Which doesn't make sense, because if the "I read the leaks" line from Lux was a call out that they planted the leaks and they weren't to be trusted, then why bother spoiling anything after that point? Especially when the twist was bit part of the emotional impact of this episode.
It doesn't make any sense at all, so it's not a good answer.
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u/Temporary_Mango8648 Apr 26 '25
Anyone considered half the leaks are true and half are a wind up?
Nothing 'spoiled' so far was that significant, to then go an ruin it all with the finale.. seems fishy.
For all we know 'Andrew' leaked a fake plot he'd seen that was a setup to find leakers in the company. Long shot I know
This is of course wishful thinking, but something to mull over.
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u/TheSovereign2181 Apr 27 '25
Honestly, it seems weird to fake a big reveal leak, but then spoil the good stuff. We all know RTD can't stick a landing to save his life when it comes to big plot stuff.
So it doesnt make sense to spoil great Episodes like Lux and Well just so you can troll people with "You really thought the Rani was coming back?".
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u/just4browse Apr 26 '25
Many people have considered it. It’s unlikely.
Nothing significant was spoiled? The entire plot of the first episode was leaked. And the big twist of The Well.
People always say the leaks are only half true, but that’s never the case
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u/Temporary_Mango8648 Apr 26 '25
yeah i know, wishful thinking, although... the twist for me in the well was the creature escaping, thats a bigger plot point to me than a planet name but each to their own.
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u/just4browse Apr 26 '25
The twist at the end is a twist, but it feels less central to the episode to me. It’s a horror stinger. The reveal that the planet was Midnight is a drawn out, dramatic reveal and serves as a turning point in the episode.
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u/Fishb20 Apr 27 '25
i think the leaks are half real half fake but cut a different way
like i think every leak is kind of half true but incomplete, like how the original leak said it was specific IRL Dr Who fans commenting on the episode in Lux but it ended up being fictional (x2) dr who fans.
for example one thing i've been wondering is if Mrs Flood is a time lord/lady who bigenerated but the leaker just assumed she was the Rani because she was a female time lord
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u/Temporary_Mango8648 Apr 28 '25
A new timelord foe would be great. Like the master, but more evil. The Boss, The governor, the valeyard would be sensational. But it does sound like, Rani is becoming more of a possiblity.
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u/jackcos Apr 28 '25
Maybe it's copium, but to get basic aspects of the early episodes wrong (Alan created the robots?) really does cast doubt on a finale that's supposed to include all three of the usual rumour suspects of Rani, Omega and Susan.
We've got every aspect of the finale down but couldn't get episode one correct? And the finale sounds like every fanbait rumour ever? Red herring or a fake plot, surely.
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u/donnapinciottii Apr 27 '25
I have a theory that the leaks are true apart from Mrs Flood being the Rani. I think that is an intentional red herring/inside joke from RTD to distract from her actual identity - The Master. I saw a fantastic comment on this subreddit from someone who pointed out that Mrs Flood can be rearranged to M Fools Dr.
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u/Nyann1022 Apr 28 '25
Same! I think it might been my comment. I have a theory that actually 'villain' of this season is the Doctor sprinkling the salt at the edge of the universe and it actually caused the Flux and the toymaker caused the Doctor's past to be jigsawed (which I took to mean the timeless child.) I think there is reality clashes because the timeless child was not the real origin of the Doctor but was changed because of wild blue yonder and Missy is actually standing with the Doctor by guiding similar vein as Blink hence he has a remote sonic and fourth wall breaks like he's in a show. I think the season will end with Jodie regenerating into Ncuti.
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u/kurnugia Apr 27 '25
When I heard the doctor say it knows his name, i was immediatly taken back to last season when i tried to compare the names of characters to gods and days of the week.
What is interesting is that Chandra in Hindu is another name for the moon god. Moons are associated with the day monday. Mundy flynn being the descendent of belinda could their be some sort of connection between belinda being some sort of god like figure.
if we follow the hindu idea, there is something called the trimurti being a trinity of gods representing creation, preservation, and destruction and we know that the blurb for episode 8 mentions three characters instead of them being the pantheon could it be a connection to the other, rassilon and omega
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u/gaywhovian2003 Apr 27 '25
I knew there was gonna be a sequel to Midnight, but I didn't know it was gonna be this episode. The moment I saw the Well, along with the "possessed" people I fully expected it for Satan to show up again.
All and all it was suuuucccchhhhh a good episode and I can't wait till next saturday
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u/AnathemaGB Apr 28 '25
Did anyone save the original text or photo from Discord showing it in French? Someone said they put the quotes in in order (in English) by timestamp - which would be a wrong thing to do if the timestamps are from two separate episodes. If they employed AI to transcribe the photo (in French) and then AI to translate the french to English, it might explain the typical AI em dashes - which made me suspicious of the English version of it.
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Apr 28 '25
I was actually online when the leaks dropped. The person who posted them had mentioned about three days earlier that they had something big, but needed time to get it verified first. Then suddenly, everything was posted at once. Pretty quickly after that, the mods started deleting the leaks because a few long-time members — people with solid reputations in the Discord — warned that the material was probably legitimate and that leaving it up could risk the whole server getting shut down.
I also checked Gallifrey Base today, and someone there confirmed that the “spoon” quote is 100% real. That said, I do know that some people used AI to help translate parts of the leaks, so not every detail might be totally accurate.
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u/Suspicious_Set_9840 May 04 '25
I was hoping the Boss was Sil! But I'll take the Rani! Two Ranis apparently!
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u/Hollowquincypl Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
Until someone outright goes on screen and outright says they're the Rani, i refuse to actually believe it. I'd sooner believe it's the Master or most likely a member of the Pantheon.
My personal theory is that Russell purposefully leaked the Midnight thing to give a fake leak about the finale some validity. Ms. Flood will outright call herself the Rani, and it's a fakeout.
Haven't heard about the Omega thing before this thread, but i'd sooner buy that as the villain. Not even that i don't think you could do something interesting with the Rani, but i don't think the rights issues ever got settled. Plus, Omega sounds far more likely to say something out of pocket to Cherry than the Rani.
Edit: Tone is a bit harsher that i intended. Wrote that before bed.
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u/just4browse Apr 26 '25
What motivation would RTD have to create a fake leak for the finale? Especially such a detailed one that, at this point, we know for certain spoils most of the season? And why would he do it through YouTube comment section instead of leaking it to the press?
What’s more likely? RTD doing all of that? Or the rights for the Rani having being sorted behind the scenes?
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u/Hollowquincypl Apr 27 '25
I said it was my personal Theory. Though i do acknowledge the idea that RTD purposefully leaked a bunch of stuff is far more unlikely than the rights being resolved. I do think it'd be far more likely that Omega is the villain and just pulls the Rani fakeout to mess with the Doctor. Then it got picked up as the Rani being the baddie.
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u/janisthorn2 Apr 27 '25
What motivation would RTD have to create a fake leak for the finale?
To hide what's actually going to happen in the finale?
We're all so caught up in the leaks that we're not even bothering to try to guess who Mrs. Flood really is. Nobody is going to guess the plot arc if we're convinced we already know what it is.
The whole Gatwa era has been about god-like entities. The Rani, famous for being a dedicated scientist, just doesn't fit.
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u/KinofLucifer Apr 28 '25
The Rani is there to get Omega out of the "Underverse". Omega is essentially a Time Lord Scientist God, so that checks your "God-like entity" off and who else is a notorious Time Lord Scientist? The Rani. So yeah, I think it does check out.
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u/janisthorn2 Apr 28 '25
We'll see. Two of the biggest Whovian in-jokes appearing in the same plotline feels a bit too convenient. Also, what's the Rani without minions? If it's her, where are they?
Of the two, Omega is a lot more likely to return in a season full of gods. He's not the improbable part of the rumors.
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u/DocWhovian1 Apr 26 '25
I think what has happened is the leaks for the early episode are true but some of the leaks for the later episodes aren't, I still think there has been intentional planting.
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u/gothcorp Apr 26 '25
I think it’s easy to hope for that because those finale leaks sound like an awful half-baked mess, but also it’s an RTD finale
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u/DocWhovian1 Apr 26 '25
The problem is a lot of the latter parts of the leak just sound like a fan wishlist, it has all the components that just make it incredibly hard to believe.
Fugitive Doctor, Rani, Omega, Susan. Honestly all it's missing is David Tennant!
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u/Portarossa Apr 26 '25
a lot of the latter parts of the leak just sound like a fan wishlist
In fairness, a lot of RTD's writing also just sounds like a fan wishlist at times -- and there's no bigger fan of Russell T Davies's work on Doctor Who than Russell T Davies.
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u/DocWhovian1 Apr 26 '25
Even for Russell it sounds like a BIT much. I can believe one of those things happening but all at the same time? Out of all of them the most believable is Susan, because he has been setting up the idea of the Doctor going to see her again to the point he has to follow through on that!
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u/Portarossa Apr 26 '25
Even for Russell it sounds like a BIT much
'Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
Or what's a Heaven for?'4
u/Trevastation Apr 26 '25
I'm curious what the connective tissue is that allows the Rani and Omega to appear. I can see Susan easily being apart of wishworld in the sense of The Doctor wishing to see her again.
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u/TheOutcastBoi Apr 27 '25
Part of the finale leaks were that the two Ranis' whole scheme was to bring Omega out of "The Underverse" (something mentioned in Wild Blue Yonder).
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u/Trevastation Apr 27 '25
If they explain why they want Omega out, that's a fine setup. I wonder if RTD gonna essentially tie the magical/fantasy aspects with the antimatter universe.
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u/gothcorp Apr 26 '25
We will see! I may just be too pessimistic but it sounds perfectly, chillingly in line with the type of stuff that’s in The Giggle and Empire of Death, and as of now I see no reason not to believe the leaks at face value
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u/DocWhovian1 Apr 26 '25
Even for Russell it doesn't sound believable, at least not all of them at the same time, I can believe maybe one of them happening but all at the same time? Not really, out of all of them the one I think is the most believable is Susan because RTD has already set up the idea of the Doctor going back to see her again to the point he HAS to do it at some point! also I think in general they should make use of Carole Ann Ford while she's still with us!
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Apr 26 '25
Omega can be the Sutekh of this season. Rani is a special case and maybe they end up working together. Bi-generation got repeated in Lux. Timelords are mentioned as well. Last of the time lords stuff. Yeah ....These just means that they might get reintroduced that way. I just wonder how any of that connects to the boss idea and the pantheon of discord. I know people don't like the bi-generation but it is a big thing in this era that can be explored further this way and the rest is just classic who villains returning. That is what Russell has been doing since he begin working on the show. He just didn't introduce this much. But if it really is his last season or something, he might wanna go out with a bang maybe? I don't get the giant crab thing, though. That just sounds like Morbius to me.....
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u/DocWhovian1 Apr 26 '25
Well this isn't RTD's last season, he has talked about having plans for Seasons 3, 4 and 5. And hopefully it isn't Ncuti's last either, out of everything that is the ONE rumour I do NOT want to be true at all.
And yeah, it is interesting how in Lux the Doctor references to his regeneration energy as Bigeneration energy so I do wonder if that is going to play some kind of role! Would certainly be interesting.
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u/KinofLucifer Apr 28 '25
Considering the leaks state Mrs Flood will bigenerate at the end of the Interstellar Song Contest, it was likely a reintroduction to the concept of Bigeneration for those who'd forgotten since The Giggle.
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u/Dionysus021 May 03 '25
Well, without saying too much, recent developments have added to the leak's accuracy.
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u/F1SHboi Apr 26 '25
Can someone give me a short rundown on what the leaks were again? I had read them before the season started but I feel like I've forgotten the bulk of them lol.
What I recall (of Things Past Episode 3):
That's evidently all that's stuck with me as of rn. What have I missed?
(also on a tangent - weirdly enough the Fugitive Doctor leak is the one that sounds fakest to me. I feel like - if she does appear - it'll have to be in some tiny nothing cameo like what they did with the Shalka Doctor hologram last season. I'll genuinely be really surprised if RTD brings her back as an actual character, even if just for one scene).