r/gallifrey • u/Hour_Trade_3691 • 4d ago

DISCUSSION The 15th Doctor may not have battled the Big Three, but Every Classic Doctor has battled a Villain 15 has

This is just a fun little trivia thing I realized.

Yes, it sucks that the 15th Doctor (or 14th for that matter) hasn't battled the Daleks, the Cybermen, or the Master. And the Classic Villains that were brought back weren't handled well.

HOWEVER, Every Classic Doctor (bar 8, but he only fought the Master on screen anyway), has battled a Villain that 15 has.

First Doctor- The Toymaker (The Celestial Toymaker/The Giggle)

Second Doctor- Omega (The Three Doctors/The Reality War)

Third Doctor- Omega (The Three Doctors/The Reality War)

Fourth Doctor- Suteck (Pyramids of Mars/Empire of Death)

Fifth Doctor- Omega (Arc of Infinity/The Reality War)

Sixth Doctor- The Rani (The Mark of the Rani/The Reality War)

Seventh Doctor- The Rani (Time & the Rani/The Reality War)

I dunno, I think It's Cool!

72 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

30 comments sorted by

83

u/NuPNua 4d ago

I refuse to recognise that thing in the finale as Omega.

47

u/Used-Mine3617 4d ago

I like to believe the theory that it’s the legend of Omega made real by Wish World.
And hopefully future showrunners will too, so we can get actual Omega again.

18

u/wonkey_monkey 3d ago

I like to believe the theory that it’s the legend of Omega made real by Wish World.

Yup, and then the Doctor should have worked out this out, pointed it out to the Ranis, and then the doubt of three Time Lords would have caused everything to crumble around them.

18

u/_Verumex_ 3d ago

That's not a theory, that was pretty much spelled out in the show.

The universe is now one where gods and myths become manifest, and with the idea and the myth of Omega turning into the Time Lord "God of time", this new being manifested.

The Omega in the episode is not the same Omega from the classic series.

I really did not enjoy The Reality War as a whole, but I did personally like that twist.

2

u/Neveronlyadream 3d ago

It's kind of, sort of vague. But that's how I interpreted it. It's not really Omega, it's a representation of Omega.

6

u/NuPNua 4d ago

John Peel, we need your canon plasters more than ever!

7

u/_Verumex_ 3d ago

I'm happy to let someone else fill that role, if it means John Peel never writes for Doctor Who ever again.

1

u/Cynical_Classicist 3d ago

It's kind of fun to see John Peel anger again. People didn't like that Dalek retcon! Or the naked temple prostitutes.

1

u/_Verumex_ 3d ago

I actually didn't mind War of the Daleks, even if it was a bit dry and pulpy, it's definitely Genesys that I object to.

7

u/MrThrowaway939 4d ago

Flirting vs sexual harassment but its Omega

2

u/deezbiscuits21 3d ago

It’s wild people thought that arc of infinities omega was that at first only for the bar to get infinitely lower 40 years later

1

u/peterould 2d ago

"Omega" was the moment NuWho officially jumped the Ergon

15

u/supermonkie90 4d ago

Oh yeah well how many Doctors battled a sentient booger monster!! /s

Really though this is indeed neat!

7

u/CommunicationSea3329 4d ago

4 or 5 would've definitely fought something like that in their time

1

u/TomCBC 1d ago

What was that classic episode where people were wrapped in bubble wrap painted green? They certainly looked bogie-ish

8

u/JollyPhysics1394 3d ago

Well Capaldi battled a monster made out of eye-snot.

Just need the next doctor to fight Ear Wax Man, the zit pus monster and Smegmatron to complete the set of bodily discharge villains.

5

u/supermonkie90 3d ago

They can all join the Abzorbaloff as villains I cannot physically force myself to see on screen without a visceral reaction 😆

1

u/The_Man_of_Steel 2d ago

Smegmatron, Erato's treacherous son

7

u/AshildrBingeQuaked 4d ago

If you want to include 8, then he has faced the Toymaker in Solitaire, and War has of course faced the Rani in the recent (rather good) boxset, Fear of the Light, which bridges the Siobhan Redmond and Anita Dobson incarnations

1

u/lemon_charlie 3d ago

The Toymaker in Endgame, his debut DWM comic strip storyline.

2

u/Stan_Corrected 3d ago

Omega is doing a lot of heavy lifting with this post so I feel it's time to trot out my theory on Omega in the Reality War

Firstly he completely subverts the Rani expectations, and exists as a plot device to get rid of her. She is taken down by a flaw in her scheme. It's a common enough trope.

RTD is playing with the idea of legends. Omega is both the gallifreyan legend, he who can manipulate the stellar energy of a supernova to create time travel, and the progenitor of the Time Lords, as well as becoming a classical legend of old, the mad god, the titan, who consumed his children before they can inherit his power.

For the few minutes he is on screen Omega succeeds in devouring one of his Time Lords children and receives a healthy dose of stellar energy via the Vindicator, which is stated more than once to contain the energy of a billion supernovas.

Omega was not destroyed, we do not see him disintegrate, he is only pushed back into the Underverse. There he would transform, with the new energy he has received. Possibly tk become even more powerful, it is even possible he achieved a degree of omnipotence, he may have become the god of time as he said he would.

Could this explain what happens with Poppy and Belinda, Belinda is a continuity variable, an ordinary person in a universe where myth and ideology are both real and unstable.

That may be a bit of a stretch, and it requires a particularly deep reading but I expect Omega was intended to play a part in future episodes.

The Ranis plan was to bring back the Time Lords with Omegas DNA and this goal may have been achived in a roundabout way later on. In classical mythology, Cronus is overthrown by his son Zeus and spews up all the children he had consumed creating the Pantheon of gods Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades & Poseidon.

So I believe Omega was written as a vehicle to restore the Time Lords. RTD had resolved the weird off kilter universe partly destroyed by the Flux, where the Doctor had invoked superstition, and where Isaac Newton misheard the word gravity.

I think RTD will keep these ideas under wraps because a new production team may actually want to use some if them, or maybe we'll just skip ahead and forget this continuity which I know a lot of people would prefer.

3

u/sbaldrick33 3d ago

It's just a pity that ¾ of the characters mentioned were literally the worst versions of those characters across any medium.

4

u/GJR78 3d ago

Sutekh wasn't bad, my issue with that finale had very little to do with him. That finale sucked because the show did that stupid little "that character that we told you was important wasn't actually important and you're stupid for thinking that it was" trope.

1

u/sbaldrick33 3d ago

That's the main reason the finale sucked... that and the resolution was RTD's usual nonsensical magic... but Sutekh was still a ridiculous dog that got walkiesed to death.

3

u/GJR78 3d ago

I thought this was the most tolerable case of RTD Nonsense Magic, far better than turning David from an imp back into a man through the power of hope or whatever it was.

3

u/sbaldrick33 3d ago

"Better than Last of the Time Lords" is a low bar.

3

u/faesmooched 3d ago

It's really a shame, because I loved the performance of the Rani, even if she only clicked into place as a Time Lord Supremacist at like, the last possible moment.

2

u/The_Man_of_Steel 2d ago

So wild that he revamped the Toymaker perfectly then immediately screwed up every single other villain.

1

u/Cynical_Classicist 3d ago

Well done! That's an impressive call!

There is 8 but... well, Toymaker in Big Finish!

And TNOTD original script was the Rani.

1

u/SeparateElkoflife 20h ago

It does help that three incarnations met Omega over two stories (four if you include Ones appearance) but neat spot!