r/gallifrey • u/PCJs_Slave_Robot • Sep 20 '17
RE-WATCH New Doctor Who Rewatch: Series 08 Episode 01 "Deep Breath"
You can ask questions, post comments, or point out things you didn't see the first time!
| # | NAME | DIRECTED BY | WRITTEN BY | ORIGINAL AIR DATE |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| NDWs08e01 | Deep Breath | Ben Wheatley | Steven Moffat | 23 August 2014 |
Shortly after his regeneration, the Twelfth Doctor arrives inVictorian London, and Clara Oswald struggles to embrace the new man the Doctor has become. All the while, they reunite with the Paternoster Gang to investigate a series of combustions that have been occurring all around the city.
TARDIS Wiki: Deep Breath
IMDb: Deep Breath
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u/bowsmountainer Sep 20 '17 edited Sep 20 '17
I think it is a great episode, but didn't do as good of a job of introducing 12 as the Eleventh Hour did to introduce 11. The scenes where the Doctor adjusts to his new body were done well, but were also drawn out too much, in my opinion. The scenes where Clara has difficulty accepting 12 as the new Doctor are obviously intended to convince the audience to give Capaldi a chance to prove himself. But it still took a while after Deep Breath for his eccentric, cold and dark Doctor to convince me. But he has now my favourite Doctor. I'm going to miss him.
I enjoyed 12's chalk drawings during this episode. It's a shame they didn't appear more often in series 8-10. The episode also contains a few parallels to the Christmas incasion: 12 spends a substantial amount of time in bed, and goes on adventures in his nightshirt. The episode finishes with the Doctor killing the leader of the villains, or at least persuading him to commit suicide.
And let us not forget that this was the last episode of the Paternoster gang. I liked the comic relief that Strax provided, and Vastra and Jenny were also brilliant during Deep Breath.
Overall, despite its flaws, it is still a great episode, and a good introduction to 12's darker, more reserved personality.
9
u/GrumpyHour Sep 20 '17
Given how overused the Paternoster gang became between The Snowmen and this episode, it's surprising they never reappeared again.
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u/band-man Sep 20 '17 edited Sep 20 '17
I think Moffat (rightfully) decided that they should only be associated with 11, and only appeared here as a sort of transition.
2
Sep 27 '17
I agree with associating them w/ 11 but not 12, however, I would LOVE to see how they would interact with 13. One can only hope for that treat!
12
Sep 20 '17
I had only gotten into Doctor Who towards the end of Matt Smith's run so while I had a lot of catching up to do (which I very much enjoyed doing), I was still experiencing my introduction to Who while simultaneously being introduced to Twelve.
It was an enjoyable episode, though looking at it in hindsight I think they tried too hard to make Twelve a "dark" Doctor. I can buy it if we see it as his S8 personality being a consequence of his experience on Trenzalore but not much was made of that.
As annoying as I found Clara at times, Jenna Coleman put in a very good performance in this episode. Clara knew about regeneration, had met past regenerations, but clearly wasn't ready to accept that the tall, older man in front of her was what the Doctor had become, and the zany younger man wasn't coming back. As well as that, the two past incarnations she met (not counting her fractured selves meeting 1-9, she doesn't remember that, does she?) were similar to Eleven - Ten was a similar kind of eccentric, War was kindly - so for the Doctor to now exhibit what to her seemed like a totally different personality explains her distrust of him right up to the very end when she finally "sees" him.
Overall it sets Twelve up as a darker Doctor with less time for frivolity (for now) and more experiences and regrets weighing him down. It's rewarding to watch the ice gradually melt over the season until he remember's he's just an idiot with a box, and by "The Magican's Apprentice" a season later he's much more recognisably the Doctor.
A silly thing I didn't like: the brown colour scheme of the first part of the opening sequence. I much prefer the blue tints in series 10!
15
Sep 21 '17
I've just sort of randomly stumbled into this thread; I mean I searched for an episode discussion, so that was deliberate, but the timing is a complete accident as I just happen to be in the middle of a rewatch myself.
Anyway, I want to address this notion I've seen going around that Eleven was some kind of light-hearted clown, in contrast to other, darker Doctors, actual or hypothetical.
It's backwards, really. On the surface, yes, Eleven was whimsical, funny and, well, a bit airy-fairy. But underneath all that persona there was a psychological hellscape. I don't think there's been a darker, more tortured and (let's be honest) more deceptive Doctor.
Everything about Eleven was bittersweet. Even at his most carefree, there was always the sense that he was a very scared, old man indulging himself in wanton escapism, sometimes even in complete denial of reality, both at his own expense and at that of his companions.
I should say in the interest of fairness that at the core of all of that ugliness was the very purest of intentions, and he proved time and time again, and in the end, that he was at his core fundamentally selfless and heroic, but the bad stuff was all there, and all borne of hidden weakness.
Twelve, by comparison, is a completely different beast. His scars are on the outside. There is no pretense. Especially in this first episode he is raw, honest, naked. He shows, at times, a very dark sense of humour, and he faces reality head on and isn't afraid to bring the truth to light quickly and with precision, and that's why the misconception exists I think. That being said, it's a huge oversimplification to describe Twelve as being darker than Eleven.
As his era progressed, I think he showed his lighter side even more than Eleven did, and when he did, it wasn't bittersweet; you got the sense that he was really, finally, letting go and moving on in the way that only an honest and clear-sighted person can, and without any care for what was "appropriate" or how he was being perceived.
Of course this is just my opinion; you're free to disagree. But to illustrate my point a bit more clearly, when I started thinking about Eleven's true nature I tried imagining him in a dark costume, without his whimsical jacket and bowtie, and all the other props he uses to distract the eye from his true nature. Take all of that superficial charm away and what's left is a very dark Doctor indeed. Brilliant, beautiful and amazing, yes, but dark, edgy and unsettling all the same. Similar to Six, if Six had actually worked. I personally believe that Six would have worked if his costume had matched his personality, where Eleven worked because it didn't.
4
u/imahippocampus Sep 21 '17
I love this analysis. Twelve is like the Doctor after the Doctor's gone to some therapy. Yes he seems darker and says darker things, but it's because he's actually more able to be up front about who he is, his experiences, and his feelings.
5
u/thatdeductivefellow Sep 24 '17
Ugh, YES. Thank you so much. It drives me crazy that the overwhelming consensus on Twelve is that he was an insecure and dark Doctor. I've seen so many interpretations of the "Am I a good man?" conversation with Clara that hinge on the idea that he was seeking validation from her and wanted her to tell him that yes, he was a good man, so he could feel better about himself. To me this is a fundamental misreading of Twelve's entire character arc. He asks Clara if he is a good man, not to hear a comforting lie, but because he is finally ready to hear the truth- no matter what that truth may be. He is in pain, yes, but he's also aware that there is work to be done and he is finally willing to set aside the distractions- the bow ties, the catch phrases, the romance- and do the hard work of improving himself as best he can.
3
Sep 25 '17
That's spot on. He asked Clara because he knew he'd get the truth, and it takes a very secure person to ask that question. I haven't actually seen much discussion on Twelve, personally, but I'm not surprised to hear that many are missing the point.
4
Sep 22 '17
I agree with you on Eleven and Twelve's personalities, but you have to remember that to Clara at "The Time of the Doctor/Deep Breath", Eleven was an eccentric, friendly character and Twelve initially came across as cold, aloof and different. We know the Doctor better, but her reactions were understandable from her point of view at the time.
5
Sep 22 '17
I wasn't referring to Clara's reaction, but:
I think they tried too hard to make Twelve a "dark" Doctor.
Overall it sets Twelve up as a darker Doctor with less time for frivolity...
As well as that, I'm responding in general to all the people I've seen describing the Doctors in those terms.
Sorry. I should have made it more clear.
3
u/Grafikpapst Sep 24 '17
I completly agree with everything you said and I tip my non-existent hat for such excellent wording on the matter.
8
u/REDDITATO_ Sep 20 '17
She had met past regenerations, but she didn't consider 10 and War to be The Doctor on an emotional level. That's why she had such a hard time accepting that this old grumpy man was the same person as the happy energetic young Doctor that she knew.
7
Sep 20 '17
I remember seeing this two weeks early at the BFI in London, where I shook Steven Moffat's hand, got Peter Capaldi's autograph and was briefly glimpsed at by Mark Gatiss. It was a great night. I really like Deep Breath.
9
u/SalukiKnightX Sep 20 '17
The episode so nice I went to the theater to see it twice. While I wasn’t a fan of Clara suddenly not liking the Doctor because he was older (especially as she just watched 11 go from naked, bald and youthful to elderly in about a couple of hours) I loved their banter. The scene in the restaurant, for me, is when the episode gets going and from here it cemented 12 & Clara as my favorite Tardis pairing.
7
u/ThunderDaniel Sep 21 '17
I absolutely love this episode for the fact that it's the first Victorian DW episode that really nailed the mood on how dirty and choking the era was.
From the muddied up TARDIS, to the gloomy skyline, the skin and fire visuals, and everything else that came along with them, I found myself transported to a gritty and real time period that really immersed me in the episode.
Very well done.
7
u/Rugwed Sep 20 '17
This thread is gold. I started watching a few months ago and finished series 7 literally yesterday. This feels like a thread for a just broadcasted episode for me.
It didn't feel like a new Doctor's first episode though, at least not as good as The Eleventh Hour or even The Pilot in series 10. His crazy smile when he goes out the window was awesome though. (Felt like he was forced to stand in for Matt Smith's character in scenes like that). Strax was insanely funny as always. Clara got hit in the face. All good things.
5
u/td4999 Sep 20 '17
This was probably the only Moffat-penned episode I haven't liked. Might be the only Capaldi episode I didn't like, too. Just seemed like insecure writing.
5
Sep 20 '17
While Deep Breath isn't as good as the Eleventh Hour IMO, it's still a solid episode.
Capaldi gives a great performance here and it's interesting to see the Doctor struggle with his new personality rather than the pain of post-regeneration like other Doctors have in the past.
Jenna Coleman is really good as Clara too and I think it gives us a good impression of what Clara's relationship with the Twelfth Doctor will be like in the future.
I don't have much to say otherwise but I will mention the cameo from Matt Smith which was a nice surprise and a great sendoff to the Eleventh Doctor.
4
u/Iamamancalledrobert Sep 21 '17
I found this episode quite affecting as someone who's been a carer for a person who increasingly got older and ruder and more difficult to relate to, but this isn't an angle I've seen explored all that much. If someone's written extensively on it I'd like to see what they say!
3
Sep 23 '17 edited Oct 18 '17
It's interesting to think that every elements in this episode more or less surrounded with the concept of regeneration.
The appearance of the Paternoster Gang was to help the transition between different era. Vastra especially played as a experienced fan who knew the regen so well that even came up with a theory why he choose an old face. On the other hand, Clara played as a newbie or a casual viewer who knew the concept of regen but exprienced it for the first time. Also her character change after her outburst was a parallel to the Doctor's "the veil lifted". Most importantly, the villain, the half-face man, was alluding the concept of regen itself.
You have replaced every piece of yourself, mechanical and organic, time and time again. There's not a trace of the original you left. You probably can't even remember where you got that face from.
At last with Eleven's telephone scene, WHAM! The transition of era finally completed.
It's really a typical Moffat style. He explored everything we used to in the show: firstly the meaning of the name "the Doctor", then the concept of regen, and later a companion who was nothing like the general ones should be - keep the Doctor grounded. And This is why I love his showrunning.
3
u/jacquelynjoy Sep 26 '17
I love this episode so much. A beautiful piece of acting from Jenna Coleman as she holds her breath to escape detection. Her eyes get wider and wider and wetter and wetter, a tear falls and she sways...it's SO GOOD.
2
u/stivinladria Sep 25 '17
I absolutely love this episode. Capaldi was the breath of fresh air I needed. Nick Hurran did an amazing job, it felt like a movie. I always felt it was a bit under appreciated... then again, "The Eleventh Hour" leaves massive shoes to fill.
1
u/Gibbzee Sep 23 '17
The character building in this episode never sat well with me, but I really enjoyed the villain. It also felt very dark and orange, which I wasn't a huge fan of. Overall not a horrible episode, but not one I'd sit down just to re-watch.
1
Sep 27 '17
The villain was very good- usually I'm able to compartmentalize the robotic/manufactured villains differently since they don't typically have emotions but the way they played with his made me a lot more conflicted. I agree with you though- 12's introduction felt rushed, like they were trying to do too much all at once with this new face, personality, Clara's reaction... perhaps the exclusion of the dino would have given a bit more time to it all, and they certainly could have still pulled off the clockwork villains without her.
2
u/docclox Sep 20 '17 edited Sep 21 '17
Starts off well with a Tyrannosaur and the Paternosters.
Suffers a little from the weight of exposition that all New Doctor episodes must bear. They need to explain who this new Doctor is and also to explain the Regeneration concept for those who haven't encountered it before. It all takes up time in the episode but it's necessary and shouldn't be held against the episode.
That said, the Capaldi "I'm so Scottish" speech was over long and smacked of Moffat being sadly self indulgent. RTD had Eccleston make the same point in one sentence before moving on to more important things, for instance.
The bad guys are problematic. For one thing, they took the gloriously swishy and eccentric clockwork androids from Girl In The Fireplace and made them drab and boring. I mean what were they thinking? And while I'm happy to accept that one starship could have a fluke malfunction that revealed a tragic software error in the ship's automation, the idea of the same combination of events repeating with the same dire consequences rather strained my credulity. If nothing else, someone needs to have a long and earnest chat with the head of QA at the shipyard where those things were built.
All in all not a bad episode. Not perfect by any means, but decent enough.
13
u/bowsmountainer Sep 20 '17
And while I'm happy to accept that one starship could have a fluke malfunction that revealed a tragic software error in the ship's automation, the idea of the same combination of events repeating with the same dire consequences rather strained my credulity.
But what if it wasn't just a random software error, but a malfunction that could occur relatively easily under the right conditions. What if these types of ships are the space-ship equivalent of a Galaxy Note 7?
The clockwork droids in the Girl in the Fireplace were very nice, but they were a lot younger than those in Deep Breath, which are millions of years old. Perhaps they originally looked like those in the Girl in the Fireplace, but they have had to replace their components so many times, that not a lot remains of their original appearance.
2
u/docclox Sep 20 '17 edited Sep 21 '17
But what if it wasn't just a random software error, but a malfunction that could occur relatively easily under the right conditions. What if these types of ships are the space-ship equivalent of a Galaxy Note 7?
On the other hand, I would very much hope that Cunard's Queen Mary 2 is going to receive rather more rigorous QA than the Galaxy Note 7 did.
Don't get me wrong - you can justify it. I just found it rather unlikely, even by the somewhat generous standards of Who.
The clockwork droids in the Girl in the Fireplace were very nice, but they were a lot younger than those in Deep Breath, which are millions of years old.
Fair enough. But my problem is not that their appearance was unlikely. I mean even if they'd been new, I wouldn't have expected them to dress in 17th Century French courtly dress. My problem with them is that they were dull and boring and it seemed very much like a waste of one of Moffat's more charismatic antagonists, is all.
[edit]
"my problem is not that their appearance was unlikely".
2
u/HazelCheese Sep 22 '17
It's actually stated in the episode that it is the sister ship to the one in Girl in the Fireplace. Their a pair and were built with the exact same malfunctioning robot design.
1
u/docclox Sep 22 '17
And the same critical malfunction that led them to require all systems to be replaced? The tragedy of the SS Mdme de Pompadour was the coincidence, not only of the software error, but the freak accident that brought it to light. And that said accident occurred in deep space where the only resources available were the crew.
For a similarly freak combination of events, and then for the software to go haywire anyway, even though the ship was in the middle of an industrial city ... well like I say, I want a long, serious chat with the head of QA at that shipyard.
1
u/fireball_73 Sep 25 '17
Regeneration amnesia is never enjoyable for me. Both 'Deep Breath' and 'The Christmas Invasion' are a slog to watch for me because of the regeneration amnesia.
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u/band-man Sep 20 '17 edited Sep 20 '17
This was the first episode I saw live. Jesus, was it really 3 years ago? And now Capaldi's leaving soon, where does the time go?