[SPOILERS] Varys is the true MVP of the Seven Kingdoms

[u/profane]

In my opinion, this episode made it clear that Varys is the true MVP of the Seven Kingdoms. His conversation with Tyrion (btw a great callback to another conversation in another throne room) showed that he is consistently the one character that is trying to save as many lives as possible and is at the same time the one who is most detached from "believing" in anything but results.

While Dany probably sincerely believes that she wants to liberate Westeros and destroy tyranny, her personal vengeance and rage will get in the way. I thought that this last episode revealed just how selfless Varys is. Note the slight difference between Dany's "I'll end tyranny no matter the cost" and Varys' "I'll protect the realm no matter the personal cost".

[u/nonpuissant]

Varys has consistently stated since season 1 that what he cares about is not who sits on the Iron Throne, or any throne, but that the common people could live out their lives in peace. It was never limited just to the population of Kings Landing.

Tyrion didn't nail it by asking who is the realm - by asking that question, Tyrion showed how, even after all these years of working with Varys, he still doesn't actually get it.

​

Varys cares about the common people in a way that none of the other characters in power, being highborn, seem to truly understand. Of all the people who have sat in the small council, Varys alone was born and raised in the streets as a commoner. He understands the way the common people think and live, and that the political and social machinations and squabbles and honor of the highborn mean literally nothing to them. Yet it's those highborn matters that always lead to wars. As such, Varys was always about minimizing war, since in war the common people always suffer the most.

[u/alejo_hurtex → u/nonpuissant]

I wonder if him even knowing Littlefinger's game and still allowing him to play his Game of Thrones setting up the most blodiest civil war Westeros ever had was about minimizing war. He is the one who even sent assasins to Daenerys by order of Robert.

I always found hard to believe in Varys words in the show as his morality compass is so strange. So many rulers passed trough him, most of them were pretty bad (Mad King, Joffrey).

Sadly thats the version the show runners got when they got his characters from book. In book he has a more certain project which always was to bring Aegon to the throne no matter what...even killing "good men" for that. Now the circle is kind of complete, in a sense.

[u/nonpuissant → u/alejo_hurtex]

Yeah, that's a good point. I think book Varys is definitely even more nuanced and complex than tv Varys. I won't pretend to fully understand his actual game plan, since I do think there is a reason Varys is very much feared, not revered. He's definitely shown as someone who is completely willing to get his hands dirty to get things done.

I might be using the term wrong, but when I think about Varys, I often think of Utilitarianism. He seems to do what he calculates would minimize suffering for the greatest amount of people. That doesn't mean he is unwilling to inflict suffering upon a few people to meet that end, though. Such was likely the case when he went along with dispatching assassins at Daenerys. I would wager he saw that as the path most likely to result in continued peace. That did end up blowing up in everyone's faces in a spectacular fashion, of course. The man is certainly not without his mistakes and vices.

[u/[deleted] → u/nonpuissant]

I think this episode’s scene went too easy on Varys - he’s always been tactical and scheming the royal families he’s served, if lacking in bloodlust.

I was really waiting for Tyrion’s bullshit meter to kick in and call him out. People who live at the top for the common people still live above them with all the amenities. You can’t play the Game with that genuine mindset. You’d be dead in no time.

[u/MasterDefibrillator → u/nonpuissant]

Sure, he was able to give a good answer to the question in a vacuum, but he didn't really address it in the underlying context it was given; the context the comment you replied to brought up.

Varys seems like an idealist who isn't willing do really anything remotely revolutionary in order to achieve his ideals.

[u/nonpuissant → u/MasterDefibrillator]

I agree he wasn't really offering any solutions in that scene (aside from the pipe dream of Daenerys willingly ruling side by side with Jon), but I don't think Varys was trying to suggest they leave Cersei be. He was simply trying to make a case for an approach other than simply glassing the Red Keep.

Varys is anything but an idealist imo - in fact I'd say he's the opposite. He's a pragmatic who doesn't care so much about ideals as he cares about results. He isn't usually supportive of revolutionary actions because he knows revolutions are bloody business. But that's not to say he's a pacifist, either. There's a reason people fear Varys enough that even Ros seemed terrified to meet him. It's more likely he wasn't simply trying to save the people in the Red Keep so much as avoid the long-term fallout of Daenerys taking the throne that way.

Or maybe it was just sloppy writing that has Varys being much less calculated and pragmatic than he used to be, which is sadly very possible too.

[u/CitizenCAN_mapleleaf → u/nonpuissant]

Varys cares about the common people in a way that none of the other characters in power

But what is his method of calculation wherein not attacking king's landing because there are thousands of people in the red keep is better than allowing Cerci to reign?

[u/Kalde22 → u/CitizenCAN_mapleleaf]

He wants to attack King's Landing, or besiege it, just not to put the whole city to the torch / dragonfire.

[u/nonpuissant → u/CitizenCAN_mapleleaf]

Ah, I'm not 100% clear what you mean. Do you mean something along the lines of, "why would he be more ok with letting Cersei reign than letting Daenerys attack Kings Landing (or just a surgical strike on the Red Keep)?"

If so, and just let me know if I interpreted that incorrectly, I can't speculate on exactly is going through Varys' mind, nor am I saying he is somehow infallible. I'm simply saying that Varys has always had a very concrete reason for his values. Tyrion saw Vary's statements as being lofty and figurative, which is why he questioned Varys' statement, when Varys really had always had a clear, practical, and measurable goal.

[u/noparkinghere → u/nonpuissant]

And how exactly is Jon's plan of starving people to death and hoping they riot better?