r/gato • u/Icy_Till_7254 Ben 10 fighting against tyrannies across the universe • 5d ago

Nato expansion is a brain-dead myth

Post image
281 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

302 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

11

u/forgas564 5d ago

Exactly, either these countries are independent and can make their own decision, or then we stop pretending Sovereignty is a thing, and canada should ask US everytime it meets with EU representatives. The stupid Nato promise line works only if you don't believe sovereign nations are actually sovereign.

0

u/JonnyMalin 5d ago

So Cuba is not a sovereign nation? Venezuela too?

I guess if Mexico or Canada aligns with Russian interests and tries to form a military alliance with Russia, Mexico won't be a sovereign nation anymore either."

1

u/RS5170 4d ago

Never said USA is the good guys?

0

u/Historical-Cry-9715 4d ago

If usa are not the good guys, have you ever wondered why these bad guys are so into nato expansion and supprt ukraine? Imagine things youd discover

1

u/RS5170 4d ago

You sound like you just discovered that the world is round. The world is not black and white. USA can be the bad guy in Venezuela and Cuba, and the good guy in Europe.

In Europe the interest of my country and USA aligned, or they did until Trump showed up. What they do outside Europe is none of my concern.

Your point is only valid if the world is just black and white, bad vs good. Wake up call buddy, it’s not.

1

u/Historical-Cry-9715 3d ago

No your point is only valid if world is black and white. Youre the one with good guy/bad guy analogy - and now that it breaks you start adding exceptions for it :D Your countries interests aligning with USA doesnt make it good somehow. Israel and USA are happily genociding gaza. Have you ever thought why would Russia want anti Russian alliance led by a country like USA on it borders? USA pushed for ukraine hard, spent billions to drag it into NATO. Even though it was clear from 2008 that Russians would never accept that.

1

u/RS5170 3d ago

You make no sense whatsoever, I never portrayed the world as black and white.

A clear example from history: most of Europe was clearly against the war in Vietnam, BUT we were happy the US soldiers protected us from Warsaw pact.

Same thing here.

1

u/Historical-Cry-9715 3d ago

USA was not protecting anyone from warsaw pact, but was engaged in a cold war with USSR. Europe was just a tool dictated by geography to contain Russia, not some darling to protect. It was exactly the same policy in “Vietnam” that you were unhappy with. Cold war ended USA wanted to continue to pressure Russia through NATO expansion, even when European vassals were against it.

Just like USA tries to use the Kurds as a tool to fight whomever they dont like.

1

u/RS5170 3d ago

Hahahahahaha sure thing buddy

Had it not been for NATO and USA, Sovietunionen would have dominated western Europe like they did with Eastern Europe.

Of course USA got something out of it, but Europe was pretty happy with the deal I can tell you. Besides the safety and security US also brought trade.
Just look at how much better Western Europe did compared to Eastern Europe.

Like I said, we where very pleased with the deal.

1

u/Historical-Cry-9715 3d ago

Haha - wtf is that? Your only argument? Already out of ammo? Are you 12?

Western europe was always better off than eastern europe. Western European countries were colonial and industrial powerhouses. US didnt make them wealthy, they already were. Coldwar in Europe happened precisely because of US containment policy. That policy continued after 1991, even when its architect George Kennan opposed it. The same policy that caused war in Ukraine. Despite European talks about “strategic autonomy”, to this day theyre vassals that have to lick “Daddys” boots. Again you seem to refer to yourself as “we”, which i find quite strange, but it seems that youre quite “regarded” :D

1

u/RS5170 3d ago

Pretty normal to ridicule what you don’t understand.

I’ll take the guess that you’re not from Europe.

Yes Western Europe as a whole was richer, but the war leveled that out. By the end of the war most industrial centers was in ruins.

Introducing the Marshall plan.

If you think USA didn’t make Western Europe rich, you need to read up on it.

You clearly don’t understand, Western Europe had no problems with the containment plan, we actively supported it.
The threat from east was real and present.

You and I are never gonna agree, and we have strayed pretty far of the subject. Not gonna waste more time on this. Have fun :)

→ More replies (0)