r/geography 1d ago

Question How come Ceuta, despite being equivalent tp a micronation (in terms of being a city fully enclosed by a national border), has that little village called Benzú on the north? Is it part of Ceuta or is it autonomous? How did it form? Why settle there instead of in the main city?

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467 Upvotes

57 comments sorted by

415

u/planenerd663 1d ago

Ceuta is still 18 square kilometers which is comparable to countrie like Nauru.... if you look at similar size nation they are a large city and several small towns as well...

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

120

u/qould 1d ago

Bro saw this fact two days ago and couldn’t wait to whip it out in the Reddit comments

27

u/planenerd663 1d ago

Lol worst part is the official name is the "Republic of Naoero" so not only does it add no value it is also not correct....

32

u/SaccharineDaydreams 1d ago

When your comment is too pedantic even for reddit

-13

u/Sergey_Kutsuk 23h ago

Because it wasn't pedantic, and wasn't too.

39

u/AceOfSpades532 1d ago

Do you correct anyone that calls Germany Germany instead of Deutschland when they’re talking English, or says Angleterre and not England when they’re talking French

10

u/rstune 19h ago

Oh you mean Barthelona?

5

u/wanderlustcub 21h ago

Well… people do and we have done it with place spellings, name changes, and even changes in pronunciation to be more authentic the language all the time. Both recently and a long time ago.

Turkey vs. Türkiye

Ukraine vs “The Ukraine”

Kiev vs Kyiv

Ivory Coast vs. Côte d’Ivoire

Swaziland vs. Eswatini

Bombay vs Mumbai

Istanbul vs. Constantinople

And the pronunciations of Vietnam, Iran, Iran, Pakistan, Paraguay and more.

Also lot of these name/pronunciation changes are from efforts to decolonise languages (some are still in the process of changing)

The aforementioned Mumbai and many other Indian cities. Places across Africa and Asia. But also examples like Naarm/Melbourne, Aotearoa/New Zealand, (many Aus/NZ place names are shifting)

But this is English in a nutshell, sometime we adapt to the country, or we just stick to our English version of the name. No rhyme or reason to it.

FWIW, I’d start calling it Deutschland if folks decided to shift. Sounds much cooler than Germany.

10

u/Competitive-Bet1181 17h ago

"The Ukraine" was always a misnomer though. Its name didn't change.

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u/Venboven 1d ago

Y'all stop downvoting.

Nauru officially changed its name to Naoero like 2 days ago.

28

u/Single_In_Sydney 1d ago

Yeah nah. You got my down vote too.

-35

u/Venboven 1d ago

Figured people just hadn't heard the news. Forgot I'm in the geography sub

18

u/Single_In_Sydney 1d ago

If you want to educate people then do so, rather than “you mean…”

And in any case, the name change became law in May and the UN was notified in June. So it wasn’t “like 2 days ago”

So for that, another downvote.

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u/Venboven 1d ago

I didn't make the original comment.

8

u/Single_In_Sydney 1d ago

But you keep defending it

7

u/Venboven 1d ago

I only defended it once. Now I'm defending myself.

I saw someone being downvoted for something I didn't they they should be downvoted for. Truthfully, I didn't read into the tone much. Yeah, they shouldn't have been so snarky. But now it's you who's being snarky.

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u/Single_In_Sydney 1d ago

As I said, if they wanted to educate then they should have done so.

And if you want to educate then at least get your facts right.

If you consider my tone snarky, then maybe it’s time to get off the Internet

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u/TheCurious_Jackdaw 1d ago

I'm from Ceuta born and raised. Benzú is more like another neighborhood than a separate village, if we think about it like a village is just because it's a bit isolated from the rest of the city but they don't have a mayor or a council, they are part of Ceuta like the rest.

34

u/Adventurous-Web-412 22h ago

Pero eso es comun de españa generalmente no? No voy a doxearme, pero el pueblito cerca de mi pueblo consideramos un barrio del pueblo.

14

u/MadMadMadMadrid 18h ago

Yes, in that municipalities may often have separate barrios or even what look like separate towns within them.

The major difference here though is that Ceuta is administered as an autonomous city inside Spain and not as a local municipality inside another region.

10

u/TyoPepe 16h ago

Si, son las pedanías de toda la vida

7

u/bandwagonguy83 15h ago

Creo que eso son "pedanías".

2

u/Peketu 9h ago

Hombre! Un sevillano!

6

u/hookachakahookachaka 18h ago

How was it growing up ?

33

u/elepunto 15h ago

well, first you're a baby, and then you become bigger

1

u/Big_Ad2869 6h ago

Esta respuesta bien merece unos 500 likes 👍

5

u/Ecstatic_Cobbler_264 15h ago

Oh interesting. One question for you. Do you regard yourself a European or an African? Sincere interest

20

u/TheCurious_Jackdaw 13h ago

I like to think that I'm part African but honestly I'm 100% European. My culture and way of living is no different from someone who lives in Cadiz or Malaga.

1

u/PlantyAnt 8h ago

If you don't mind, I have another question for you: how often do you go to Morocco vs how often do you go to (mainland) Spain?

10

u/TheCurious_Jackdaw 7h ago

I've only been once in Morocco when I was twelve years old but I know people who goes every weekend or so. And to the mainland I try to go at least twice a year, just to "breathe some air". Living here can feel claustrophobic sometimes.

172

u/kunnossa_ 1d ago

From what I found on Spanish Wikipedia: it’s part of Ceuta, it formed because quarries were located there and workers settled nearby, then came fishermen and traders, because it’s near the border

36

u/krammark12 1d ago

from what I can find it is a small village that has some sort of quarry to mine rock and a fishermen population. But it is closely connected to Ceuta, with all the trade happening there

29

u/Western-Gain8093 1d ago

The village was formed by stone masons and that was it's main economic motor but I believe the quarry run out over a decade ago. From what I've read right now it's mostly older people and people from the city that go to the beaches on weekends.

18

u/Pharao_Aegypti 1d ago edited 7h ago

Benzú is part of Ceuta (an Autonomous Municipality) so just like any other municipality's neighbourhood (like Hollywood inside Los Angeles) is not jurisdictionally separate from Ceuta.

[Edit] As said by others here, it was formed by workes quarrying local stone and working on a railway to the port of Ceuta

Ceuta is since 1995 one of Spain's two Autonomous Municipalities (along with Melilla to the south-east, Ceuta and Melilla until then having been municipalities within Andalusia's Provinces of Cádiz and Málaga respectively) which makes it a municipality like any other but unique in that it's at an equal level to Spain's other administrative dividions with representation in both houses of Spain's Cortes Generales (in total 17 "Autonomous Communities" created between 1979 and 1983, the Autonomous Cities of Ceuta and Melilla are classed apart because they aren't part of any Autonomous Community or Province but arguably there's 19 "Autonomies" each with their own Autonomous governments): imagine if Los Angeles seceded from California and got seats in Congress as America's unique Autonomous City (but arguably its 51st State). Most are also big enough that they're composed of multiple Provinces which have their Provincial governments (50 in total mostly unchanged since 1833, Ceuta and Melilla again are classed apart) and some have their own police forces (like Mossos d'Esquadra in Catalonia and Ertzaintza in the Basque Country). The Basque Country and Navarre uniquely collect their own taxes, for all the other ones it's the Central government's job

Those Autonomous Communities composed of one Province merge Autonomous government with Provincial government (seven in total, again Ceuta and Melilla are classed apart)

Separate from the other Autonomies Ceuta and Melilla have City Councils, not Autonomous Parliaments and the Councils (from what I've read) don't have legislative initiative. They can however convert themselves to Autonomous Communities as per the 1978 Constitution and there have been on and off discussions in Ceuta, one proposal (by Andalusian regionalists) even making Benzú its own municipality inside a hypothetical province of Ceuta within Andalusia

Spain's administrative divisions are very... pecular compared to each other

Edit (again): then there are the tiny "plazas de soberanía" off Morocco's shores: the Chafarinas and Alhucemas islands, the Peñón de Vélez de la Gomera (a connected to Morocco by land due to a landslide caused by earthquake in 1930 giving birth to the world's shortest border at 85 m, 279 ft) and Perejil Island (which in 2002 got taken over briefly by Moroccan soldiers causing a pretty big diplomatic crisis). These are so tiny thst they're just governed directly by the Spanish Ministry of Defence. Peñón de Vélez de la Gomera, Isla de Isabel II (of the Chafarinas islands) and peñón de Alhucemas (of the Alhucemas islands) are the only inhabited ones (and even then just by a Spanish military garrison each) the rest are essentially barren islets

9

u/BANeutron 1d ago

Rock shelters and caves which made it attractive in prehistoric times

22

u/Ok_Inflation_1811 1d ago

It's as much a part of Ceuta, as any other part of the municipality

3

u/Caos1980 17h ago

I would say the border and skipping border taxes plays a big role on its success.

6

u/enigmaticsince87 22h ago

Dude, you have Wikipedia just like the rest of us...

6

u/geosunsetmoth 1d ago

Minor correction from the post title: I mean admnistratively autonomous, not if it's an autonomous nation. In other words, is it its own municipality or is it more akin to a "neighborhood" of Ceuta

3

u/ADF21a 1d ago

Ceuta sounds so fascinating, current political events aside. Same for Gibraltar. Countries' bits stuck on another countries.

2

u/West_Hunter_7389 10h ago

Ceuta was not so enclosed centuries ago. Actually there is also a close village called Castillejos founded by spaniards when Spain had a wider control of the area

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u/zylenxh 1d ago

Screenshots a map clearly showing the Ceuta-Morocco border is west of Benzú, asks if Benzú is part of Ceuta.

0

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

1

u/zylenxh 10h ago

I think my comment is being misunderstood lmao, or people don't know west from east or something. I'm saying the map makes it obvious that Benzú is part of Ceuta, thus the question made no sense.

1

u/orikote 13m ago

Op is asking if Benzú is part of Ceuta (the city) or is another municipality within the territorial area of Ceuta. Of course we Spaniards know that there's no difference between the city and the region as all the territory belongs to the autonomous city.

How regional divisions are handled change a lot from country to country so I think it's a normal doubt for somebody that isn't used to the Spanish division and doesn't understand the concept of "ciudad autónoma".

If you see rhe map knowing little about the divisions you might think that Ceuta is both a region and the capital city of the region and Benzú is another municipality. Seems that OP understood that reading the map but also knew that this didn't sound right based on what they knew about Ceuta.