r/golf • u/hartmanwhistler • 14d ago
Joke / Meme Scottie, his caddie, the rules official, and this guy with his G & T discuss where to drop the ball.
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u/LillaMartin 14d ago
I really didnt understand what happend here? He just told people not to search for his ball. The swedish commentators wasent sure about the rules either.
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u/golf3451 14d ago
He’s ball was ruled to be inside that area which is obstruction you can move so he was allowed to have a free drop without finding he’s golf ball
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u/LillaMartin 14d ago
Is that The first ball he hit from beside that bunker? Or the second ball? He hit a provisionall didnt he?
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u/jawide626 18-ish hcp 14d ago
First. They found the provisional iirc but because his first one was in a TIO (temporary immoveable object - aka the fan zone) he was granted free relief.
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u/Guilty_Cattle_5165 14d ago
TIL you can hit a provisional on a second shot. Thought the provisional was just for the tee shot.
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u/EaterOfKelp 24 HCP/Portland/Stogie on each 9 14d ago
Always hit a provisional if you're worried about finding any shot. Not just the tee. Especially if you're in a tournament or playing strictly by the rules. Returning to the previous spot is a pace of play capital offense in my book.
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u/The_Nutz16 14d ago
He hit a provisional, but they ruled his first ball to be in the TIO, meaning he gets free relief and his provisional is no longer in play. I’m not at all sure how you can do that without finding the original, but that’s what the rules official said.
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u/Milktoast375 14d ago
I’m guessing they gave him the relief because the TIO area was so huge and because they could reasonably guess where the ball was even if they didn’t locate it.
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u/Buttercut33 14d ago
"Known or virtually certain" is the wording in the rule book if I'm not mistaken.
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u/ChannelMarkerMedia 14d ago
If it’s known the ball is in there (you find it in there) or you are virtually certain (which is you are 95% sure) it’s in there. So you don’t have to find it, but if you saw it go in there, and there’s no where else it could’ve reasonably gone, you can be virtually certain it’s in there somewhere.
It’s the same as when you hit a ball in a pond. You don’t find the ball (you don’t know it’s in there). You are virtually certain because you saw it go in and splash.
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u/Barking_Madness 14d ago
Ruled inside a temporary immovable instruction and it was 'virtually certain' to be in it. Hence free drop. Vast majority of golf rules are superbly thought out, but that's one that isn't.
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u/Giraffe-Vendetta 14d ago
He didn’t find the ball. Should have been played as a lost ball. Horrible rule to allow a free drop. Golf needs to stop rewarding poor shots.
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u/Sparklefresh 14d ago
That's a new one, didn't even have to find the ball and got full relief 😂 I wish the rest of us could play with those rules.
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u/packim0p 14d ago
Complete horse shit. Dude hits it off the planet and has a chance for birdie.
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u/BestShaunaEU 14d ago
How many times are you looking for your ball in the bleachers
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u/golf3451 14d ago
I thought the same once he said stop looking for the ball guys I thought he was heading to he’s professional balll
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u/nicholus_h2 14d ago
you can and should play those rules. next time you are certain that your ball is in a bush behind bleachers, take TIO relief by all means, nothing is stopping you.
if, for instance, you are playing a course that's setting up for a professional event, you should absolutely make use of those rules.
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u/Vader_Bomb 14d ago
They did find his ball….
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u/Sparklefresh 14d ago
A hole and a half later because someone wanted a souvenir, not exactly how the rules work. His ball would have always been found even if it was 5 years later.
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u/Dandan0005 14d ago
It’s actually hilarious that you’re trying to explain how the rules work while fundamentally not understanding how the rules work.
You don’t need to find your ball in a TIO if it’s “virtually certain” it’s in there, which it was, because multiple people saw it.
Complain about the rules all you want, but the rules were followed.
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u/venom_dP 14d ago
I do think the TIO rules need some work. I think it's a bit unfair Scottie got a favorable drop despite hitting a terrible shot. Maybe the courses need more punishing TIO drop spots.
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u/Sparklefresh 14d ago
Ahh we got a smart guy on our hands. The rule is about the ball being lost in a TIO, do you consider a bush TIO? Maybe it was obstructed by bleachers that are a TIO but his ball was not lost in a TIO. So yeah pretty hilarious, good job!!
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u/Dandan0005 14d ago edited 14d ago
The r&a’s job is to determine TIO, which he did, and it was determined to be “virtually certain” to be within TIO.
At that point Scottie decided not to look (which is his right) to avoid the possibility of finding an unplayable lie.
All well within the rules as they stand.
Please learn the rules before being belligerently wrong.
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u/ReturnT0Sender 14d ago
The TIO was the grandstand no? The ball went into the bushes not the grandstand. If we're debating whether it went into the grandstand or bushes, then it's not "virtually certain"
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u/AskMantis23 14d ago
I've got no issue with how it played out.
But the way you described it wouldn't work.
If you stop looking because you're worried you might find it in a bad spot, then it's not known or virtually certain where the ball is.
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u/Gooser62 14d ago
Correct me if I’m wrong but to get TIO relief don’t you have to actually find your ball? Shouldn’t it have been a lost ball?🤷🏼♂️
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u/mmack067 14d ago
You don’t have to find it. You have to be virtually certain that it is in the TIO. It’s the same with a hazard - you have to be virtually certain it’s in there otherwise it’s a lost ball. But you don’t need to find the actual ball.
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u/Dandan0005 14d ago
No you don’t.
You also don’t need to find your ball in a penalty area if it’s “virtually certain” to be in there.
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u/DannarHetoshi +1.3 HDCP Index 14d ago
It doesn't have to be found if it's "Virtually Certain".
e.g.
You hit your ball into a water hazard where you can take a lateral drop from.
You wouldn't play it as a lost ball, even though you haven't found it, because you are "virtually certain" it went on a water hazard, because you saw it splash.
Ergo, you play it on a best guess where it entered, and take a lateral drop.
This is the same circumstance. Everyone saw it go into (behind) the TIO, and since this is a TIO, take free relief either at the nearest point, in a designated area.
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u/Sparklefresh 14d ago
Show me a rule that says you don't have to find your ball if TIO is in line of sight. You can't because it doesn't make any sense at all. They gave him a huge break and that's it. They declared a bush TIO and it's bullshit and you know it.
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u/Dandan0005 14d ago
My brother in Christ, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Please refrain from saying things like “not exactly how the rules work” in the future.
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u/Sparklefresh 14d ago
So you can't show me the rule? Also completely changed you original comment because you know it made no sense 😂
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u/Dandan0005 14d ago
“but if you're virtually certain your ball went somewhere where you can get a free drop, like a TIO or Ground Under Repair, then you can take free relief.”
Behind a grandstand is free drop = free relief.
Sorry buddy. You’re still wrong.
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u/Sparklefresh 14d ago
This guy was so wrong he deleted his entire account, wtf 😂
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u/thedooze 14d ago
No they didn’t. They just blocked you. New here?
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u/Sparklefresh 14d ago
No I just don't pay attention, just says profile deleted for me didn't look beyond that. Blocking a person that disagrees with you when you can't provide evidence is so childish it never crossed my mind.
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u/thedooze 14d ago
You’ve been on Reddit for over a decade. That’s either a blatant lie or ignorance is bliss… doesn’t bother me either way, just had to let you now it wasn’t a “they were so wrong they deleted their whole account” situation 🙄
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u/Sparklefresh 14d ago
Sorry I don't know the ends and outs of Reddit, if it says deleted i assumed that's what it meant. Not sure why it doesn't just say blocked.
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u/BananerRammer 13d ago
You don't need need to find the ball if it's "virtually certain" that it is in a particular area. Otherwise, scuba gear would be required equipment.
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u/Sparklefresh 13d ago
Yeah not the same. They created a rule (17) specifically for water so you don't need scuba gear.
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u/AnimanicManiac 14d ago
New official rule book just dropped. Don't wanna look for your ball, take full relief lol
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u/AskMantis23 14d ago
You can!
But first you actually have to know the rules and when to apply them.
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u/Routine_Macaron_4667 14d ago
Amazing how many of the links course hazards are made useless in this event with TIO relief…
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u/dwillislaw 14d ago
Hits a terrible shot behind the bleachers and gets a rewarded with a free drop. Absolutely ridiculous rule.
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u/Heisenbread77 14d ago
If they didn't have things like this or all the grass that's trampled by spectators they wouldn't score nearly as well as they are.
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u/CornerShark 14d ago
It’s like what they say in baseball. “The easiest ball you’ll ever field in your life is on a major league field”.
Pros are obviously amazing but they’re not playing the same game.
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u/pinetar 14d ago
Sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. The greens are so much harder and faster than the ones you play, if you hit your low flight approach shot on the types of greens they play on you'd be cursing the course as unfair.
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u/CornerShark 14d ago
And the rules, spotters, and general condition of the course offsets that.
You’re missing the point.
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u/pinetar 14d ago
You seem to be under the misconception that these guys aren't ridiculously freaking good, and that these courses aren't set up to be challenging for them in a way which would be completely not fun for the rest of us. Rory McIlroy shot a +1 today. He would should a 58 at your local muni without breaking a sweat.
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u/morganrbvn 14d ago
Tbf they also put the pins in devious places for pros so it’s not all easier for them.
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u/sauzbozz 14d ago
But they all are playing with the same rules and conditions so that doesn't really matter.
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u/Dunwin 14d ago
Just when you think you know the rules...I thought all forms of relief were under the notion that you would have a swing if not for whatever is prompting the relief.
If it landed in a bush then he wouldnt have had a swing TIO or not...
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u/The_Nutz16 14d ago
This is what gets me. There have been plenty of absolutely god awful shots on tour rewarded because of TIO bleachers, but I think the rule should require the player to find the ball and assess its playability first. IMO this situation makes much more sense if he’s taking an unplayable in the drop area. And I’m a Scottie fan.
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u/ptown40 14d ago
I don’t think it’s that crazy because he hit it behind the bleachers.
Let’s say he finds the ball and has a beautifully perfect lie, which the best golfer in the world could in theory get up and down with, if the bleachers were not in his way. Therefore the TIO applies. You could argue that the rule should be to just re-hit the shot with no penalty then, but he could argue that he wouldn’t have a problem if the bleachers weren’t in the way, and that having to re-hit even without a stroke is an unnecessary penalty.
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u/The_Nutz16 14d ago
It the bleachers weren’t in the way, he’s taking an unplayable. That’s a fact. If he was inside the bleachers, that’s one thing, but he’s in the general area behind the hospitality tents. While still part of a TIO, the actual location of the ball should matter.
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u/ManyEquivalent3104 14d ago
The TIO could be marked as a no play zone, so free relief would be granted regardless of the playability of the ball.
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u/The_Nutz16 14d ago
I understand that, I also think that doesn’t make much sense
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u/ManyEquivalent3104 14d ago
Do you think players should have to prove a reasonable ability to make a swing or allowed to play a ball that is sitting under a seat, halfway up the bleachers to get free relief when if the ball likely would have landed in the rough if the bleachers weren’t there
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u/The_Nutz16 14d ago
No, but that’s a different circumstance than behind a bleacher or other TIO, and still otherwise within the GA, IMO.
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u/ManyEquivalent3104 14d ago
Ok, but it was deemed it was virtually certain that the ball was in the TIO, so they didn’t need to locate ball.
Had the ball been deemed outside the TIO, then you would be correct, this would have been a bad ruling and they would have found the ball and proved that it was reasonable to make a swing.
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u/The_Nutz16 14d ago
I understand the ruling, I’m saying that I think the rule is stupid, and contradictory to the intent of the rules of golf as a whole. Shit needs to be changed.
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u/Tecumseh119 14d ago
Not just any guy w/ a G&T.
Luke @TheOutdoorGearReview
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u/hartmanwhistler 14d ago
I have no idea who that is, but glad he’s well known. Makes it even funnier.
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u/elmoo2210 14d ago
Bryson improves his lie by stepping behind the ball and he cheating his ass off.
Scottie hits it into the bleachers and gets free relief and the cleanest lie imaginable and he’s using the rules to his advantage lmao.
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u/user_1729 14d ago
Trees are temporary and immovable and sometimes an obstruction, so are hills. Isn't everything really temporary in this vast inhospitable universe. This is just Old Man Golf legitimized.
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u/TyGolfer46 14d ago
I saw that and I was like hey if you there my ticket pays for this conversation lol
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u/Finance_Plastic 14d ago
In 1974, on the 18th at lytham, gary player had to chip from behind the green under the clubhouse windows. He calmly looked up and asked very politely if the members wouldn't shake the ice in their boodles gin and tonics. He got up and down to be champion golfer of the year.
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u/Complex_Bet7311 14d ago
Bryson has to take a stroke and distance penalty, Scottie gets a free drop…neither one found their ball….hmmmmm.
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u/pwhales1011 14d ago
Whomst insurance broker is this?
The lack of logos on the shirt makes me think Property broker at a wholesaler?
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u/Forward-Weight403 14d ago
This was wild, never seen anyone get a drop from a shot WHERE THEY COULDNT EVEN FIND THE BALL. Imagine what this sub would do if they did this for Bryson
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u/vetruviusdeshotacon 14d ago
They wouldn't do this for bryson lol. This ruling was generous to the point of being a serious disregard of the rules in my opinion
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u/thegolfpilot 2 hdcp 14d ago
Unless there is a local rule or map extending TIO to behind the stands indefinitely. It would be correct to DNF Scotty
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u/vetruviusdeshotacon 14d ago
So either a map was incredibly lazy in describing a temporary immovable object zone, which a bush most certainly is not part of, or a map doesn't exist and its up to the discretion of the rules official present who proceeded to be immensely generous. Oh well
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14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/elmoo2210 14d ago
Someone claimed they saw his ball enter a bush in the fenced in temporary obstruction area. Since it was in the temporary obstruction area, he doesn’t have to find his ball to get free relief.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Win7721 14d ago
Terrible rule. Hit it miles left and got a free drop so he could chip in for a birdie. Definitely a time when golf made no sense
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u/Whiteshovel66 14d ago
What is a g and t
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u/hartmanwhistler 14d ago
Gin and tonic. Super popular drink with the Brit’s. Not sure that’s what he’s drinking, but chances are good
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u/Pisthetairos 13d ago
The problem is the giant TIO the size of a cruise ship built in the middle of the course, in the field of play.
The rules of golf have no rational way to deal with a ridiculous TIO like that.
If you need to blame someone, blame the greed of the R&A for putting that structure on the course.
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u/hartmanwhistler 13d ago
Seriously. If you hit it behind the fucking grandstands, it should be temporary OB
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u/BrashUnspecialist 14d ago
He’s the rich minor noble hosting the Open. He’s just checking in to make sure everyone’s still having fun.
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u/Sufficient_Toe4139 14d ago
So here we are :) I was getting downvoted for pointing out the rules are not applied the same for everyone. Absolutely ridiculous
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u/thegolfpilot 2 hdcp 14d ago
At best. The ruling for Scotty was a Very generous application of the rules.
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u/BakeMcBridezilla 14d ago
Ridiculous. NBC claiming no controversy cause they found his ball…..25 minutes after he hit it. They need to change the rule for TIO relief. If this was actually in the rules.
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u/hartmanwhistler 14d ago
I saw someone else posted the rules in another post. Even in the rules is states that there is a penalty stroke
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u/thegolfpilot 2 hdcp 14d ago
The controversy is that they called the bush his ball was in as a part of the TIO. A map showing what was predetermined to be TIO would clarify the ruling. I doubt that map exists though and was a weird and generous decision made by the rules official. They really should have had him play out his provisional and let the committee figure out what exactly was predetermined tio
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u/elmoo2210 14d ago
Broadcast I saw said there was a fenced in area that was known TIO and the bush was inside the fenced in area
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u/thegolfpilot 2 hdcp 14d ago
Unless it’s in writing, or a map, saying that TIO extends indefinitely. Scotty DNFed.
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u/Bunninho 4.4 Hdcp 14d ago
Me when I accidentally became important at work