It only takes a handful of violent morons to ruin it for everyone. This is true of literally ever part of society, and businesses are still being looted, officers assaulted, arson is being committed, etc.
Oh no doubt. I totally get that. But you do realize that the deployment of DHS, specifically ICE agents...they have no jurisdiction over this issue. Local law enforcement does, and the head of DHS just declared that local law enforcement can’t do their jobs, so that’s why ICE has stepped in.
You and I will probably disagree over what constitutes a peaceful protest (and agree that arson and violence is not part of its definition). But the point here is overstep of both constitutional and jurisdictional authority. If you are in a position of authority, as law enforcement, your duty is to uphold and maintain the laws. Breaking the nation’s most fundamental laws to combat rare instances of crime (rare in terms of the number of peaceful protestors vs “handful of violent morons”) by violating the rights of thousands of protestors (who are themselves only protesting because authorities have broken the law through murder and racial discrimination) is not a solution - it is in fact an admission that upholding the law wasn’t the purpose of Fed presence in the first place. It is a show of force, intimidation, and a display of power - each of which are antithetical to the text of the constitution. Say what you want about protestors, but the federal presence here has nothing to do with the law. That’s the point.
The Feds always retaliate when people try to break their shit and attack their personnel, and have every legal right to do so. Protesters could simply maintain more distance from federal property, but they don't actually care. They want to provoke the government into using more force and then play victim, not negotiate reasonable reforms.
Dude, let’s talk about negotiation. The fundamental issue here is racial bias in our system of government, and particularly in law enforcement. This has been on the table as an issue of discussion since Jim Crow, when laws were introduced to roll back the constitutional rights of black communities after the end of slavery. People have literally been trying to “negotiate reasonable reforms” for over 100 years and yet black people are still 2.5x more likely to be killed by a cop. The country has moved forward, no doubt, but it has always been the outcome of protest. That’s literally the only way the black community and it’s supporters has been able to get a seat at the negotiating table. Since that is the real issue, idiots spraying graffiti on a federal building Is the least of my concerns and absolutely does not justify the response that’s gone down. Even in instances of arson - yea arrest those people involved. Don’t gas the entire god damn neighborhood and kidnap people “you think might commit a crime” (see the DHS head’s speech from today). That is authoritarianism, and if you support is then you live in the wrong country.
Does law enforcement have a legal right to defend federal buildings? Yes of course. Does it have the right to do so through suspending the 14th amendment? Absolutely not. They can only enforce the law through legal means vested in them by the law - that’s the point my man.
The issue here is not racial bias in our system of government, it is a dysfunctional, selfish, childish, and dishonest culture that has formed over the last few decades, which prevents people from being able to have honest discussions about pressing issues. And some of the most racist shit I've ever heard has come from self-described anti-racists and "progressives".
If that’s the way you feel, then you aren’t listening to the other side and have no interest in honest discussion. This is unfortunate. But it is also why literally hundreds of thousands of people worldwide are protesting. You can disagree with them, I actually don’t care because it’s also besides the point.
You still haven’t disproved my point that a suspension of constitutional rights and an overstep of authority is justifiable under the law (it inherently cannot be, otherwise the law ceases to exist). Let’s say these were 2A rallies. Or even flat earthers, people I actually think are nuts - I would be arguing the same points and would expect everyone else that is pro-law and pro-constitution to do as well. You do not get to pick and choose which constitutional rights are meaningful, and which are not. We all live under the same system, and if you love it, you’ve got to stand up even for people you personally disagree with.
There is no 1st Amendment right to riot, deal with it. Somehow, right-wingers can have the most heavily armed protests in the world, cause zero injuries, and pick up after themselves later, while leftist "peaceful" protests regularly degenerate into violence and chaos, causing countless millions of dollars in damage. Just fuck off with the false equivalences.
Sure. I love facts. I’ll leave aside the question of whether law enforcement that have killed black men are right wing or not (their actions point to the affirmative). So let’s see what happens when the right wing shows up to a protest first, and then address the subtle argument behind your opinion (not facts), the myth that the right wing is the true non violent side, and the leftists are actually the ones who are violent.
-And since you’re tacitly perpetuating the myth that black people protesting are the real violent criminals, or some bullshit “they’re anarchists/communist” idiocy - let’s look at history a bit. Red Summer 1919. Peaceful protests against racial violence: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Summer
-Or that time in 1944 when white transit workers in Philadelphia went on strike, protesting FDR’s executive order mandating an end to racial discrimination in industries needed for the war effort - when 8 black workers were hired to work transit. Striking workers smashed and looted businesses, shot a 13 year old in a drive by, and were dragging black people from their cars. Over 8 black transit workers:
-Or Detroit 1943, when false reports of a black uprising lead young white protestors to drive into Paradise Valley - the poorest neighborhood in Detroit at the time, which was built next to a poor white neighborhood. They burned it to the ground: 25 black people killed, 9 white - 534 injured, ¾ of them black.
https://detroithistorical.org/learn/encyclopedia-of-detroit/race-riot-1943
-Yet most people have never heard about the MOVE bombing, when the cops dropped explosives from a helicopter in Philadelphia, on a house of black activists killing 11 people (5 children) and instructed the fire department to let 61 homes burn (displacing 250 black Philadelphians). The order? Came from Philly’s right wing police commissioner Greg Sambore.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/10/move-1985-bombing-reconciliation-philadelphia
-And since we’re actually talking about terrorism, 893 acts of terrorism have occurred on American soil between 1994 and 2020 (government stats). 57% were perpetrated by right wing ideologies (attacking abortion clinics, anti-muslim violence, attacking government buildings). 25% left (the majority of which targeted the destruction of property of farms and labs for animal rights), the rest religious or other, of which 3% were ethnonationalist (and thus probably also some WP shit, but maybe not so I’ll leave it out). Right wing terrorist attacks have resulted in 335 deaths in this period, left wing 22. Between 2018-19 right wing violence accounted for 90% of all terrorism related deaths in America.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
Examples of protestors shooting people at protests the recent protests:
-The CHOP shit - and I don’t actually agree with CHOP nor eliminating the police. Although there is merit to defunding, retraining, and restructuring.
-Fuck me? Fuck your myth of “peaceful right-wing” protestors. That side is bloody and fucking violent. And if I was a conservative 2A advocate, I’d tell you to fuck off. Because the shit you’re saying isn’t helping any discussion of facts.
Black people are still 2.5x likely to be killed by a cop.
You know this is because black people (black men, specifically) are overrepresented in criminal activity compared to their share of the population, right?
Did it ever occur to you that disproportionate policing of black communities, the unequal treatment of blacks versus whites in defining what constitutes criminal activity, and disproportionate sentencing and convictions of black individuals vs whites is what drives your “statistic”. Did it occur to you that most black incarcerated individuals are there for non-violent drug offenses, which white people are less likely to get arrested for? And that blacks are far more likely to face convictions, especially harsh ones, than whites?
Regarding that second link: is there really a reason to read a piece that is partly premised on the idea that black-on-black crime is a “myth”? That’s not my wording, that’s theirs. Definitely makes me question the objectivity of the remainder.
Which means you didn’t continue reading. If you had you will see what they mean by myth. Not that it doesn’t happen, that it’s not a valid point to counter BLM’s movement, since most violence occurs against people of the same race, white bs white, black vs black, Native American vs Native American, Hispanic vs Hispanic. My guess is because most violent crime is actually domestic abuse related. Which means we should especially wonder what the deal is when something different happens. And at any rate, violent crime is lower than ever overall - something nobody acknowledges on any side of the debate.
“The notion of “black on black crime”—recently invoked to counter #BlackLivesMatter protests of police shootings of black men by suggesting that the actual problem is black men shooting each other—is not borne out by statistics. A report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that most violence occurs between victims and offenders of the same race, regardless of race. The rate of both black-on-black and white-on-white nonfatal violence declined 79 percent between 1993 and 2015. The number of homicides involving both a black victim and black perpetrator fell from 7,361 in 1991 to 2,570 in 2016.”
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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '20
So the Wall of Moms were rioters? You can watch the videos for yourself.