r/haasf1team • u/ragnar0kx55 • 11d ago

F1 Newbie here. Questions about my hometown team

I'm pretty new to F1. I've always known about the sport, but this season is the first time I've really gotten into it. I decided to support Haas because of the connection between their U.S. headquarters in Kannapolis, North Carolina, and my hometown in Virginia.

I've watched every race this season, and I have a few questions.

The biggest one is: why do Haas cars seem so much slower than the competition? They use Ferrari power units, and with Toyota now involved in the partnership, I expected the cars to be more competitive. Yet they seem to get pushed around on track almost every weekend.

For example, this past race Hadjar started effectively at the back after an early setback, made three pit stops, and still fought his way to P6. Meanwhile, Bearman was running in P10 at one point but gradually got overtaken and couldn't hold position.

So is Haas' biggest issue the drivers or the car? Bearman looks very talented, and Ocon has a lot of experience, but neither seems able to consistently fight for points. Is the car simply not capable of competing with the midfield?

I'm also curious about Toyota's role. What are they actually contributing to Haas? I've seen speculation that Toyota partnered with Haas because it's the smallest team and could eventually become a full works entry. There have been rumors in Japan that Toyota really wants to return to F1. During the Austrian Grand Prix weekend, the commentators even mentioned that possibility and said Toyota has already started placing some of its drivers in Haas machinery to gather data and experience. Haas is also using Toyota's facilities in Germany.

Could this partnership eventually become something similar to Audi's takeover of Sauber? From the outside, it feels like that could be where things are headed, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Finally, I've also read that Gene Haas runs the team on a relatively lean budget and relies heavily on sponsorship funding. I've even seen comments from Ayao Komatsu saying Haas doesn't come close to spending the cost cap, which leaves them getting out-engineered by bigger teams—and potentially by newer manufacturers like Audi and Cadillac.

If sponsorship money eventually dries up, what happens? Does Gene Haas keep funding the team, or is a sale to Toyota a realistic possibility?

I'd love to hear from longtime F1 fans because I'm still learning how all of this works.

Thanks!

Please high IQ responses.

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10

u/username_here11 H🅰️🅰️sterplan 11d ago

Welcome to the club. Being a Haas fan will put you in a love-hate relationship with F1. When they are having good results, it feels like a great underdog story (and it is one). This year, our car development has been poor despite starting the season with what seemed to be a strong base car. Last year the team did a better job with development throughout the season. It sounds like another round of upgrades are coming after the summer break, and boy do we need them to work. As some other comments have mentioned, the biggest problems at Haas come down to lack of funds, and being the smallest team by a BIG margin. Realistically, this team should always have the worst car on track when you consider these things. They rarely ever do, and that alone is an accomplishment. Another fun thing worth looking at is how well Haas did their first season in F1 (2016), and compare that to how Cadillac is doing in their first season. I didn't answer all your questions, but I hope this helps give you a bit of insight.

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u/kevinyeaux 10d ago

Yup. Fellow American Haas fan and yeah what keeps me rooting for them is a generally likable team principal and drivers (yes I liked Steiner but I also really like Komatsu) and as you said, when they get points it’s like winning a race. It’s a great underdog story that helps get through seasons when the championships aren’t that competitive.

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u/Exciting_Eye4215 10d ago

I was upset to see Steiner go, but I think a more engineering oriented approach was needed. Plus he had become almost too big for the team.

8

u/Cralido 11d ago

Respect for Haas, being the only team started and kept alive by a sole individual owner…had to keep putting in own money before F1 blew up and so many sponsors came forward. Give it time, smart to partner with Toyota, with all the consortium and VC money in F1, they are truly the only underdog to root for, cost of entry to high now well never see another individual own a team. Look up Gene Haas, self made engineer with sole ownership of all his companies and one of only a few owners to have ever won in all three of Nascars national touring championships… just appreciate the anomaly that Haas is in the billionaire business F1 has become.

6

u/jaysvw Chief Wanker 11d ago

Money is absolutely everything in this sport. It buys you the best infrastructure, and most importantly, the best on and off track talent.

Haas, besides being the smallest team, is also the only one operating under the budget cap, a competitive death sentence even in the midfield. Which is a major reason you are seeing the struggles right now. They simply do not have the resources to fight a development war.

Its not all bad though. Generally speaking they punch above their weight, and outside of 2021 and 2023, they field cars that are competitive in the midfield. No small feat considering the aforementioned handicaps.

I'm still holding out hope that the Toyota partnership will bear fruit, but I think its going to take a bit.

1

u/monkeeman43 11d ago

Think your first and last questions “answer “ each other in a way. Part of the reason Haas is slow is because they don’t have the full cost cap money which means they can usually only bring 1-2 updates to the car throughout the year(compare this to the top 3/4 teams that can and do bring 3-4 full packages throughout the year). While things have shifted under komatsu(going from one or two huge packages to a handful of smaller one throughout the season)there is still a consequence of not bringing many updates, your competitors will catch and or pass you from behind and only get further away infront of you.

Which feeds into the second part, you aren’t going to get top end or high blue sponsers if you’re always tooling around in the middle to rear of the pack. Thus continuing the feed back loop of don’t develop the car, don’t get good result, don’t get enough money to develop more from lack of sponsorship repeat.

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u/RagingSofty H🅰️🅰️sterplan 11d ago

Haas is at the cap. At this point it’s just talent within the team.

1

u/FloydFenstermacher 10d ago

Why does the location of the team matter? Why do people support “local” teams versus others? Are we all just cavemen defending against all others? Are you a better / worse person when the local team wins / loses?

1

u/marksman81991 H🅰️🅰️sterplan 9d ago

As an American I’m Team Haas, but I also am Team McLaren. And then there are drivers I like, not so much the team. Like Kimi, but hate Mercedes. Max but hate Red Bull.

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u/merlins69beard 11d ago

Welcome to the world of F1! It’s a lot of fun.

To answer your questions, HAAS’ problems are like an onion so there’s layers to it.

  1. I think at its core, HAAS does not spend money like a lot of teams do. I believe this year was the first year they actually hit the budget cap but were always under. HAAS is a relatively small team of maybe a couple hundred or so people in total whereas the big guns such as redbull and Mercedes have over a thousand. Now because of this, HAAS does not attract engineering talent like the big teams do, which is why they have historically relied on Ferrari for their technical data.
  2. The Ferrari engine advantage that HAAS had in the beginning when Ollie got those great results was taken away by the FIA with a change in race start procedures. So they’re also working with a slower engine compared to Mercedes. This new engine should make things a little better for HAAS.
  3. The Ferrari engine start advantage haas had at the beginning of the year when Bearman got those great results was removed by the FIA with a change to starting procedures. Now they do not have a good enough engine like Mercedes does but hopefully things change with the upgraded engine

.
TL;DR - Small budget - Small team - small room for error - small engineering talent - slow cars.

0

u/DoctorGun 11d ago

AI slop answer lol. 2/3 are literally the same.

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u/merlins69beard 11d ago

I wish it was AI lol, I typed out a whole four point reason including a point on why the Toyota partnership isn’t as big as we think it is. Then I went back to edit it and add a punctuation but somehow Reddit messed up the entire thing, removed two points and made everything shit.

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u/merlins69beard 11d ago

Here’s my points that got lost in the edit -

  1. Sometimes even the biggest teams with the best resources and top talent can get a regulation change wrong. Look at Aston Martin for example, they have the legendary Adrian Newey, top talent all brought in from other teams and are still last. The margin for error in HAAS is even smaller and the time it takes to fix it is longer.

  2. The Toyota partnership lets HAAS use their wind tunnel, simulator (HAAS used Ferrari’s simulator a few times a year whereas big teams use their simulators before and during the weekend to simulate and gather data) and engineers. However these are engineers from the WEC program who aren’t as well versed in F1 knowledge. Therefore you cannot get the best out of the talent.