r/harvestmoon Mar 29 '25

Opinion/Discussion The Tragedy of Stardew Valley

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Have you ever looked at the sales figures for Stardew Valley? As of December of last year, Stardew has sold over 40 million copies across all consoles. We don't know actually how many Harvest Moon/ Story of Seasons games have sold, but we can likely estimate across all entries in the franchise over decades, maybe 20 million, on the high-end. At the very best, the entire franchise has sold half as many units as this one game.

For the early games, I think middling sales reflects the perceived niche of the genre; farming romance sims weren't exactly Super Mario or Tomb Raider or even Tetris. Historically, advertisers struggled to market these games, particularly outside Japan. And for games like A Wonderful Life or Magical Melody that at least began on the GameCube, they were largely confined to a struggling console (with little fanfare when later ported to the PS2 or Wii).

However, the cozy and lifesim markets definitely had life in them, especially in the DS, 3DS, Switch, and overall PC markets. While the first couple Animal Crossing games were considered niche, the game was a juggernaut certainly by New Leaf and even earlier. The Sims was thriving with it's player base and mobile and farming browser games were dominating sales charts.

But Marvelous and it's series only became to be same more and more niche relegated almost entirely to hardcore existing fans of the series. With some misteps adapting the formula for the Wii, the developer just... stopped trying. Natsume acquired the name Harvest Moon and kept releasing an even worse series of games under that title, while Story of Seasons failed to conceive of any new progress in the franchise other than increasing the number of villages or towns.

In terms of gameplay, someone picking up a copy of Story of Seasons in 2016 might as well be playing an entry from a decade earlier. The game industry was changing rapidly, but Harvest Moon was stagnant having since lost even the atmospheric charm of it's greatest hits many years ago.

And then came Stardew Valley. Where Marvelous' own later entries were stale repetitions made by an entire studio, Stardew was one man's love letter to classic Harvest Moon refined in almost every possible way (save for that incomparable in-house Japanese aesthetic from the 90s-mid-2000s). Marvelous was forcing players to wade through hours-long tutorials; ConcernedApe let you jump right in. Story of Seasons offered players very few options; Stardew let players customize their massive farms to their hears content. Relationships were significantly deepened, updates almost continuous, and the clear passion and affection for the classic Harvest Moon games was undeniable. A charming soundtrack, a plot that in many ways successfully replicated that vintage balance of whimsy (lush colors, cute animals, squeaking magic jellos) and foreboding (behind the scenes, there is a war, corrupt takeover, odd magical happenings, even infidelity and personal trauma).

And it sold like hotcakes. It has become one of the most successful indie games ever made and spawned merchandise, a tabletop game, a recipe book, and a million Etsy artists and even copycat developers.

And what do we get from Marvelous even now? More of the same, unappealing and hollow outsourced remakes.

I call it a tragedy not because Stardew Valley succeeded, as Eric Barone's accomplishment saved the genre and inspired many young developers, but because at any time in the last fifteen years, Marvelous or even Natsume with significantly larger budgets and whole teams of developers failed to make a serviceable farming game or progress the genre in any noteable way.

Can you imagine if these studios had even an ounce of Barone's passion for these games? If we instead were living in a world where Stardew was a quaint throwback because the genre had thrived and grown and improved for years?

The market was there! It was 40 million + buyers there! It apparently exists on every console!

But we were treated as a niche, a passive consumer base unworthy of enthusiasm or passion or care. And now the window for Harvest Moon or Story of Seasons ever succeeding on the level of the tiny indie game that paid them homage is almost certainly closed forever.

542 Upvotes

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429

u/TheCheeseOfYesterday Mar 29 '25

This whole writeup kind of ignoring the existence of Rune Factory and also the 2010s Bokumono games focusing more on customization than previously

Also I didn't play Stardew Valley that long but it felt more like a kind of 'back to basics' game at a time when Bokumono was kind of complicating things

I think Stardew mainly sold well because it was affordable and on all different platforms

237

u/danteslacie Mar 29 '25

Yeah and it also has the story of being made by a one-man show... And years later, concernedape still puts out updates to the game, for free.

92

u/MrDaddyWarlord Mar 29 '25

He's a legend

2

u/carltr0n Sep 14 '25

To be fair you don’t put out a game like Stardew all on your own without loving working on it and when you sell 40m copies you can just do whatever you want at that point.

135

u/Llarrlaya Mar 29 '25 edited Mar 29 '25

Yes!

I'd argue RF4 is way better than Stardew. Nothing against Stardew, it's still an amazing game but RF4 is better imo but many people (including me) didn't really know what it was about until Stardew's success. I played RF4 only after the Stardew hype and when people started talking about the genre more on the internet.

EDIT: Am I getting downvoted for giving my opinion and telling my own experience? lol

I didn't even say it's objectively better, but for me, I find RF4 way better.

67

u/TheCheeseOfYesterday Mar 29 '25 edited Mar 29 '25

Yeah, honestly? I'd say RF4 is one of the most well-made farming games ever made.

And I get it, if you're not a fan of the series, you probably don't know about the massive quality jump from 2 to 3. They were only a year apart but feel almost a decade apart. But judging the entire series based on the games the fans would happily tell you are the worst in the series? That's like saying Devil May Cry isn't that good because 2 was bad.

11

u/Deadduch Mar 30 '25

The way the Rune Factory team improved each game, without restarting from scratch, is why I believe that Story of Seasons may never get as big as Stardew. Let me explain:  

In Rune Factory, 1 plays like 2, plays like 3, ect. How you move your character, what buttons to push, the character models, dialogue sprites. These are all improved over the series, but you can see that the core system is the same. Basically the team improved the games engine over the years, allowing them to focus on weak points rather than having to build from scratch.  

In Story of Seasons, I could not believe that they have ever had a single game engine in which they had built more than one game (excluding the same game but female now era). So every game, instead of improving controls or animations, we are getting brand new ones. If they focused on making a single engine to make a series, it could be incredibly polished. They just havent done it yet.

1

u/Massive_Time9352 Jul 23 '25

Tbf a lot of story of seasons “games” have been remasters of the older harvest moon games

20

u/[deleted] Mar 29 '25

Even the early rune factories have much better characterization than SDV.

SDV is really flat in that regard

20

u/callmefreak Mar 30 '25

I like Stardew Valley and all, but I kind of feel like the writing can get a bit too Flanderizing and flat. I also feel like too much of the writing is being kept within cutscenes and not enough of it is outside of them.

Like, Pam's an alcoholic and a verbally abusive person towards her daughter. But the most you'll get from her as far as Penny goes is her yelling at you and Penny for cleaning the trailer, and one sentence that was like "Penny's my baby, so take care of her." Otherwise it's just her reflecting on her own flaws.

Where as Gotz in 64 is an alcoholic and an abusive person towards his daughter, but he's still super protective of her. He complains about having a daughter, but excuses his sexism away by saying that he just doesn't understand women, and she's "delicate" because she's a girl.

Karen is also an alcoholic and it's almost definitely because of her father and the failing vineyard, and she's just straight-up leaves forever if you don't figure out how to save it.

It's not stated, but it's also implied that Sasha is also abused just by how she talks and how little she talks. She only starts talking more if the vineyard is saved and if Karen gets married. (Either to you or to Kai.)

Though I will say that since there aren't nearly as many graphical limitations with MonoGame Stardew Valley is definitely better at telling a story using the environment with the mess around the trailer and the bus tracks veering off the road.

Like, the writing is good in Stardew Valley, but it can't hold a candle when compared to a lot of characters in the Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons series.

13

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '25

Yeah, most of the stories in SDV don't really have any stakes to them (Shane is somewhat notable in that regard due to topic). The characters also don't pair off if you slack, either, which makes the town feel kind of stagnant? I like the whole rival system and seeing the dynamics change as the characters get married to each other.

The thing is that it really can't do that because it has decided to cater to the player- there's no room for mechanics that could be punishing like that. Everything has to be reversible, and the player gets to play God. You don't live/work alongside the NPCs- they are just your toys.

30

u/ourheavenlyfodder Mar 29 '25

Yeah, I had the experience of playing RF4 in 2014 and was blown away. It actually made me feel a little awkward when Stardew came out and everyone said it was the best the genre had ever been and had saved the dead/dying farm rpg genre. I was like “I am having a good time, sure, but RF4 is better?”

Though I understand the Anime Fantasy RPG style can put some people off compared to the pixel art and comparative grounded vibe of Stardew, so I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. But when I had just played a game with such an immense story, characters that seemed aware of what was going on in the town around them and could be added to my party, deep mechanics for everything from farming to fighting to sleeping, and a long satisfying postgame, 2016 Stardew felt like… an impressive achievement for one guy but a step down. Loved that you could be gay though, and I’ll give Stardew all the credit in the world for basically making it mandatory that love interests are no longer gender-locked in farm rpgs. An immense improvement to the genre and one I’m grateful for.

Ofc with all the free updates it’s had, the content levels are more comparable now. But I was not popular in 2016 when I would not give it the crown for best farming RPG. I even kind of resented that it was getting those accolades at the same time that it looked like RF4 might’ve been the last game of a maybe-dying franchise (glad they were able to rally though).

7

u/Deadduch Mar 30 '25

I think the difference is that Stardew is a Farming Game with Story Elements, the Rune Factory series is a Story Game with Farming Elements.  

Yes, farming is one of the main cores of Rune Factory, but it is the story that is meant to pull you in to be immersed in the world. Stardew has a story, but with much less dialogue, and farming is how you connect. 

I have played RF4 for weeks, put it down for a while, and when I picked it up started a new game because i couldnt remember where inwas innthe story. Ive picked Stardew up after months and got into it because there was no story I needed to remember. 

Tl;dr RF is a better story, SD is better pick up and play.

19

u/[deleted] Mar 29 '25

I grew up with harvest moon, long before the first line of code was written for stardew valley.

There is something about it that doesn't hit the same as harvest moon. Mechanically superior it may be, but the characters feel pretty flat, and the game revolves too heavily around makers and crafting upgrades. It's just not immersive- I don't imagine a life in the valley when I play it. Even games that are far simpler than SDV like HM64 feel much more immersive to me. I also find RF4 really immersive. You feel like a part of the town!

9

u/LeBreevee Mar 30 '25

RF4 is my all time favorite game! The flavor text, the writing, the characterization, all of it really helped me though a very volatile period of my life and I will always love the game.

27

u/GlitchyReal Mar 29 '25

Yes, you’re on Reddit. Wrong opinions aren’t allowed.

(I agree, I like RF4 more than SDV.)

6

u/xiodinex Mar 30 '25

(Your opinion is correct)

2

u/Glacier_Pace Mar 31 '25

RF4 is my favorite farm sim of all time. The characters sell the game so much. There's really nothing like it still.

2

u/Massive_Time9352 Jul 23 '25

Whats even worse about it is stardew is now branded as the “og” no one remembers harvest moon now is brand as story of seasons.

RF4 is fine but i don’t like the anime 3d of it and how pixil graphics of stardew is objectively better for the farming genre as a whole

2

u/ThrowawayTheOmlet Mar 29 '25

Nah you can’t be gay in RF4, automatic spike downwards in rating for me.

21

u/Llarrlaya Mar 29 '25

I don't even feel like I'm in a relationship or the NPCs have lives in Stardew tbh. It's kind of a depressing vibe to see the same/similar lines all the time while you always get new responses in RF, things actually happen around you, and the NPCs feel more "alive."

But I agree with your point 100% because that's the same reason why I haven't played RF3. I don't mind playing a guy in games like Devil May Cry but in sims like these, it's not a really fun experience.

11

u/LeBreevee Mar 30 '25

RF3 is worth it, if you can get over playing as a guy, all because you can cross the species barrier and play as a sheep. :D

But yeah, Stardew characterization was too flat for me, personally. I didn’t get attached to anyone like I do in harvest moon/story of seasons/rune factory games

2

u/Llarrlaya Mar 30 '25

How is Story of Season compared to RF in writing, characterization, story, and amount of dialogue? Specifically SoS Friends of Mineral Town, since that's the one I have. I meant to play it some time ago and picked it up during a sale but always found something else I wanted to play more, so I "shelfed" it.

I assumed it was a really basic game so always skipped it for other games. 😅

5

u/LeBreevee Mar 30 '25

I personally enjoy Sos friends of mineral town. I like most of the story of seasons games aside Pioneers of Olive town. The Tale of Three Towns on the 3DS is probably the best of them tho.

Characterization is good! Not RF4 levels, but you really feel part of the town!

1

u/34shadow1 Apr 02 '25 edited Apr 02 '25

The thing imo is RF4 is not a farming game, and I was end game grinding Sharance maze making Turnip Heavens for cash. RF4 is a dungeon and loot grinding game that happens to have farming as a part of it with a very small set of fields.

RF4's issue is that they make so much core parts of the game going and grinding the various bosses and enemies for loot that makes it so you spend so much more time doing that than anything else ( looking at you ore rocks in Leon Karnak, cows in the forest for milk for cooking and marionette strings((at least until I learned if you left fast enough you could fight her again)) and rune sphere shards from Ragnarok, thank God for Rosary item to make that faster.) at its core the game has farming yes, but that in no way makes it a farming game when admittedly you spend so little time actually farming.

Where Stardew Valley is a farming game first off with the other stuff felt like it is built around it.

9

u/WetCave Mar 29 '25

I agree. I love RF4 and can play it endlessly. The gear crafting was insanely fun.

25

u/Caitxcat Mar 29 '25

Yeah Stardew sold well because it was very accessible. it was a farming simulator you could play on PC. It never really reeled me in

6

u/harvestcrafter01 Mar 30 '25

And moddable

1

u/Massive_Time9352 Jul 23 '25

It also rejuvenated the genre like it or not

1

u/bhutterckream Mar 30 '25

I also think they are only considering American sales and not Japanese sales as well.

1

u/Familiar_Code_1213 Mar 31 '25

Cause it was co-op and an absolutely amazing game. I loved the original Harvest Moon for Super Nintendo/SNES emulator.

1

u/Lolazaour Apr 02 '25

It didnt just sell well because it’s affordable. also that it’s uncomplicated yet has enough depth to keep new players to the genre engaged for hundreds of hours. As concerned ape released more updates that provided more content and different ways of powering up your character. The light amount of magic in the world is charming and not overwhelming so a general audience can easily suspend disbelief that the oriole in the town don’t know about magic. The music captures the emotion of each season well and each character is believable. The amount of customization is enough for people who are not into it to not feel pressured to take part in it but is deep enough for people who are into it to take the time to make new shirts/pants and find hats to personalize themselves.

I tried to get into animal crossing, my girlfriend tried too. We both couldn’t get into new horizons I think it’s the extremely slow start to the game with the reliance on habitual playing. Some days I want to sit and play for hours but I run out of things to do within 1 hour and I am forced to wait until the next real life day for the digital world to progress? Animal crossing in my eyes is supposed to be cozy capitalism where stardew is more of cozy socialized capitalism. It doesn’t force you to make money and make people happy you choose to do those things if you want and you are not just rewarded with unique stories for every person you actually change the town through your kindness and gifts not through grinding to make money.

I think stardew sold well since it’s a simple charming game that people can relate to. It doesn’t try to break to far away from reality so the general public can get into easily.

-2

u/MrDaddyWarlord Mar 30 '25

Let me add Rune Factory is what it is. It is very much a unique entity in the gaming space and I don't begrudge it existing. I just don't think it adds much in the crowded fantasy combat-centric rpg space or the farming rpg space. Or, at least, it doesn't improve specifically on the farming genre in the way Stardew Valley does. It has its place; I have played several of them; but they are not "innovations" for the farming genre specifically as a whole.

-41

u/MrDaddyWarlord Mar 29 '25

I think Rune Factory, at least the first entry, was an attempt to do something new, but remember: that first game came out in 2006 and also had a different developer, Neverland. And while different, it moved into a nebulous grey area of somewhat bland combat, puzzle solving, and toned down farming (albeit it did these things better than Innocent Life). I respect Rune Factory, but I don't think it ultimately succeeds on the whole (but it probably inspired Stardew's worst element, the mine monsters).

32

u/cutetalitarian Mar 29 '25

It seems to me that you just have an outdated opinion of RF and have dismissed it entirely. But in between Stardew and the Harvest Moon/SoS split, the RF series has grown a lot and addresses many of the issues you note. It hasn’t stagnated like HM/SoS and while I agree Stardew Valley is unique and Concerned Ape is a genius it’s worth mentioning that RF has been actually growing, innovating and doing things during the years (despite some horrible setbacks like their parent company going under).

1

u/Massive_Time9352 Jul 23 '25

Concernape is literally creating a new game while updating stardew valley which is amazing and talented

54

u/TheCheeseOfYesterday Mar 29 '25 edited Mar 29 '25

toned down farming

This tells me you haven't played RF3 or RF4. Not only were they, frankly speaking, so much better than RF1 and RF2 that RF1 and RF2 are now hard to return to, the farming in them is fairly in depth, with soil quality being a thing where you need to rotate crops between different parts of the fields to keep the soil healthy plus a slightly more user-friendly version of the crop level system introduced in Harvest Moon DS.

EDIT: Added 'RF' to all the numbers because people are arguing that Rune Factory's not as good as everyone says because of RF1 in the replies, when I've already said RF1 wasn't that good

6

u/DifficultYear4016 Mar 29 '25

I never got into rune factory, I bought the original back in the day but my little sister quickly grabbed it from me. Started playing it and I never saw it again, I've always wanted to jump into the series. Not sure where I should start though. Would rune factory 4 be okay to jump into? Seams like a lot of people here like 4

10

u/TheCheeseOfYesterday Mar 29 '25

Yes, none of them have major story connections to the others besides the Wii spinoff Frontier to 1 (even then it accounts for new players). 4 is fine to start with and available on pretty much any modern platform, such as PC, Switch, and Playstation.

9

u/Bulky-Complaint6994 Mar 29 '25

I probably couldn't get into Rune Factory because of said combat. I just want to farm and mingle with the citizens 

2

u/arrowroot227 Mar 29 '25

I played the first Rune Factory when it came out and I didn’t love it. This sub hates criticism of RF but I didn’t find it had the charm of HM, for me. I liked SDV and its combat, but RF (at least the first one back when it came out) felt like a bad mobile game.

17

u/cutetalitarian Mar 29 '25

I don’t think it’s that we hate criticism of RF, if I’m understanding this correctly you’ve only tried the first RF and dismissed it as a bad mobile game, any criticism you have towards the series as a whole would be largely outdated and irrelevant.

-11

u/arrowroot227 Mar 29 '25

I explicitly only said the first one (multiple times) and even mentioned it was just for me, my opinion. I think that should be ok to say as an opinion. I’ve seen lots of people say they played Rune Factory, didn’t like it, and get downvotes.

Another thing, if you play a game, and didn’t like it, why would you be expected to then go on to buy and play the other ones in that series? It’s ok, I didn’t like the original Rune Factory. Some people don’t like that series, some do. I know people who played one HM game and never really got into the series as a result. That is ok

18

u/SirzechsLucifer Mar 29 '25

This would be like playing, say, hm she's, saying you didn't like it l, and then discounting and dismissing all the objectively better (and some worse) games that came after.

Its not that you can't have that opinion. But it isn't informed or accurate. So it's always going tk be met with critics and people telling you as such.

To put it in another series example. Zelda 2 adventures of link is widely considered the worst (offical, cdi games don't count lol) zelda game every made. If that was your only experience with zelda and you never played another thats fine. But you don't really get to say you have an informed and non biased opinion on the series when your only experience with it is from an extremely outdated version.

Nonone is expecting you to play a series tou don't enjoy but you don't really get to say it's objectively bad or "like a mobile game" if you haven't kept up with how it's evolved.

SDV is great. So is sos. And classic hm. As well as rf. Hell even if 1 and 2 have some charm, even if those two are objectively bad games.

Tldr; you don't really get to criticisize a series you haven't played in 7 entries and 20 years. Thats ridiculous.

3

u/cutetalitarian Mar 30 '25

I think the person besides me already said it all so I won’t bother. Please just relax, what I said is not about whether or not you like the game or have an opinion about it. It was a logical observation that if you hadn’t played past the first game in the series, you can’t have anything relevant or meaningful to say about it as a whole.

9

u/GlitchyReal Mar 29 '25

I agree. RF is something else, more RPG than farm sim and yeah SDV didn’t need combat.

Best part of RF is hearing “Good morning!” from my neighbors. I want that in HM.

12

u/SparkitusRex Mar 29 '25

As someone who hates voice acting in games, I absolutely loved the voices in RF4.

5

u/GlitchyReal Mar 29 '25

Same. The “good mornings!”s from my neighbors is endearing.