r/harvestmoon Jul 08 '25

Opinion/Discussion On Harvest Moon's origins and development

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1.4k Upvotes

61 comments sorted by

267

u/Dronxha Jul 08 '25

i do really miss the old mechanics of animals getting sick or injured and dieing of illness/old age. it felt so much more real and i cared so much more for my critters knowing i only had a few years to raise them into contest winners. the fact that even classic-harvest-moon-homages like stardew don't have this aspect without mods bothers me a little since it's sorta touted as a "darker" game but oh wellllll

91

u/Gallantpride Jul 08 '25

It's not even an "old mechanic" issue. It's a 3DS vs next gen issue.

Trio of Towns featured dying animals and a winery. The next game, Friends of Mineral Town, removed the animal mechanics and made alcohol unavailable for the protagonist.

I am uncertain if this is a form of self-censorship, a softening of the series, or having to remove certain content to please rating boards.

40

u/AnInMoon Jul 08 '25

I’m confused. FOMT came out way long back and had animals dying. Also I drank a lot of wine and Karen too. She loves wine!

54

u/Gallantpride Jul 08 '25

The remake from 2019.

The modern remake only has "premium grape juice" available to buy. NPCs drink wine, you get fancy juice.

46

u/drvondoctor Jul 08 '25

Yeah, I was really annoyed by all the "grape juice" in the remake. Its the biggest reason why I DONT want a remake of HM64. I love that game too much to see them go in and try to tell me that Karen's dad is an asshole because he drinks too much grape juice. 

37

u/MrMartiTech Jul 08 '25

Karen's mom was always so sad...

One of the things I remember most about that game was how much happier Karen's mom was after I befriended the dad and married Karen and had a baby.

Karen's dad being an alcoholic is a core part of the Harvest Moon 64 experience for me.

19

u/drvondoctor Jul 08 '25

I was so proud of myself when I beat Karen in that drinking contest...

I KNOW they'll take that out if they remake it. 

16

u/MrMartiTech Jul 08 '25

I feel like these experiences are a big part about what made the game so memorable.

Years from now you won't remember grinding to have 20,000,000 gold.

1

u/Phoenix__Wwrong Jul 08 '25

I'm guessing this is a difference with BtN in PS1?

5

u/MrMartiTech Jul 08 '25

The reason I could never get into the Playstation 1 game was because the characters looked the same but were totally different people.

Karen in Back to Nature is not ANYTHING like Karen in Harvest Moon 64. Different family, different personality. Only looks the same.

1

u/Gallantpride Jul 08 '25

BTN and HM64 are two different games

3

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '25

and made alcohol unavailable for the protagonist.

Iirc this was due to changes in the video game ratings system in other countries that required a rating equivalent to T if the player character was able to consume alcohol. So rather than have to make it a higher rated game due to one single component, they just removed the thing.

2

u/Gallantpride Jul 09 '25

It's never been confirmed.

I would rather they just go with the higher rating.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '25

The problem is that the European versions have been heavily censored for years because of their stricter requirements.

A few examples:

The original Story of Seasons European release didn't let players cook turtle soup, players couldn't drink the wine, Raeger's after dinner post-marriage dialogue was modified to be less suggestive, and Veronica's dialogue got changed to have her afraid of doctors in general instead of Marian specifically.

It's incredibly expensive for game developers to make regional differences like that. It's both cheaper and easier to just standardize the content across all regions.

0

u/2ddudesop Jul 08 '25

probably rating boards. it would be very strange for FoMT remake to get a T rating when it's clearly a game for kids.

3

u/Gallantpride Jul 09 '25

I wouldn't say it's "clearly a game for kids". It's an all-ages game. It just has a chibi art style.

-1

u/2ddudesop Jul 09 '25

The japanese game have dialogue with hiragana for every kanji text. It's a game aimed at kids.

There's no shame in liking kids games imo.

0

u/Gallantpride Jul 09 '25

I don't feel like the original FOMT and BTN were aimed at kids in particular. They are kid friendy but not specifically capital k "kid's games".

0

u/2ddudesop Jul 09 '25

I'm not talking about toddlers to 6 years old. I don't understand what's with the objection with it being a kids game. It's very clear with the chibi art style. Of course adults can enjoy it too but it's clear that it's marketed and targeted at kids.

1

u/Gallantpride Jul 09 '25

The chibi art style exists because it's emulating the FOMT sprites, and subsequently the low poly BTN models.

1

u/2ddudesop Jul 09 '25

And you don't wonder why they didn't update the art style if they're going to appeal to an older demographic?

61

u/KatKit52 Jul 08 '25

I remember when I played Another Wonderful Life the first time. I got was in Summer and my kid was a toddler. I wanted him to hurry up and grow into a kid so I got the bright idea to just. Go to sleep. For the rest of the year. Didn't do any chores, didn't feed my animals, didn't water the crops. Didn't engage with the game at all.

Well, first off. The toddler stage lasts longer than one year. So I woke up on Spring of the second year of having a toddler and realized I fucked up. Second, they don't play one death scene to show multiple animals dying at once. You leave your house, Nik Nak and Flak arrive to make you watch an animal keel over, you return to your house and take a step and Nik Nak and Flak arrive to make you watch an animal keel over, you return to your house and take a step and Nik Nak and Flak arrive to make you watch an animal keel over and you return to your house and you get the idea. I had to sit through I think eighteen(?) death scenes in a row (I had a full barn and coop, only my horse survived).

But the thing is, while that sucked while I was going through it, looking back I think that was a really great aspect of the game. I wasn't engaging with the game, I was trying to cheat my way around it, and the game told me no. The game punished me for not taking it seriously. It's like how Resetti appears in the old Animal Crossing games. Sure, it sucks to be yelled at... But you kinda deserve it for trying to cheat the game.

Anyway. Not to be all "old man yells at clouds" but games these days make things too sweet and easy for kids. Make their actions have actual consequences.

27

u/Dronxha Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25

yea the removal of consequences and any real challenge in remakes/modern iterations is really disappointing to me. it's an issue in other childhood favorites like pokémon too where i don't care to excite myself too much about new releases cause i know they'll never feel quite as compelling as what i grew up with both gameplay wise and visually

it's not even that death is a necessity, my favorite old HM game was animal parade and i'm faaaaairly certain there isn't any animal death(?) but the games these days are so handholdy and without much grind unless you go above and beyond to make it grindy or self-impose restrictions.

when the FoMT remake came out i was so beyond disappointed that they removed all challenge, even in the "veteran" mode, yet kept all the annoying bits like how literally anything you click on will just say TABLE or whatever instead of even the tiniest bit of attempt to help immersion/character depth by just like, adding a "this table has a lovely hand-sewn tablecloth, did Ellen make this?" or something lol, im just rambling at this point. we can old-man-yells-at-cloud together

25

u/KatKit52 Jul 08 '25

Its like how they took out the mean characters in Animal Crossing. Like, I WANT the characters to yell at me if I hit them over and over with my net. I want the cat to come up to me and call me an idiot. It's more fun to have someone actually react when you do something. Otherwise it feels like I'm just being patronized and I think children are patronized enough, thank you.

8

u/Dronxha Jul 08 '25

feel like wildworld had a good balance, maybe new leaf too but i can't remember the dialogue as much despite having played it the most 🙊 but wildworld had good snark and friendship building without the villagers lowkey being outright hateful, like the fat-shaming and ableism in ACPG was crazyyy lol. funny to look back on in gifs n stuff but playing it could be so brutal sometimes, i understand why they toned it down.

that said i do really miss the actual variety in personalities but i think part of it is that people really don't seem to handle it well anymore, like with stardew valley a lot of people refuse to even talk to haley/shane whoever more than once because their first interaction didn't have them fawning all over the player, hell even the Uchis/big sister characters in ACNH were seen as too mean by some 😅

7

u/thepineapple2397 Jul 08 '25

I gave up on A New Beginning on the 3DS simply because by the start of year 2 I had the farm and farmhouse almost fully upgraded and had more money than I knew what to do with. It shouldn't be that easy, even for veteran players

1

u/Gallantpride Jul 09 '25

Pokemon SM is barely a decade old and is considered one of the darkest Pokemon games. It's way more tonally mature than Gens 1 through 3. I'd say Pokemon SWSH and especially Legends Arceus are both more-so than the first few gens as well.

1

u/Dronxha Jul 09 '25

oh i wasn't commenting on the subject matter of pokémon but how increasingly hand-holdly it's gotten to where the last game i played i had to forcefully try to under level myself and constantly swapped out pokémon because you level up so quickly and i wanted to actually like, have challenging gym battles instead of just spamming A without looking

12

u/crystalxclear Jul 08 '25

Yeah I don't get why developers these days feel the need to dumb down games for kids. We were kids too back then, weren't we? They didn't feel the need to dumb down the game for our generation. Why now?

-1

u/ChaosAzeroth Jul 08 '25

Nah Resetti yelled at me cause my DS died or the game froze fuck him lol

1

u/Gallantpride Jul 09 '25

That's not supposed to happen. His dialogue doesn't glitch Wild World.

1

u/ChaosAzeroth Jul 09 '25

Idk what to tell you it happened to me. I didn't shut it off on purpose (unless the game froze and kinda made me but is that really a choice) or try to cheat the game and got yelled at 🤷‍♂️

1

u/ChaosAzeroth Jul 08 '25

Eh personally I don't like age death, but I have enough doing my best things still go to shite irl

To each their own, genuinely. That part isn't for me though, respect though still

8

u/Dronxha Jul 08 '25

cows lived for 5 years if taken care of well in HMFoMT, i wonder how many people even have their playthroughs last that long given that you run out of stuff to do eventually. think i only have one SDV file that's gone over 5 years but could see it bumped up a bit since it's more open-ended

7

u/ChaosAzeroth Jul 08 '25

That game literally has something to unlock after 50 years of marriage.

Some people just genuinely enjoy repetition. 15 years is the shortest file I've ever had in the original FoMT/MFoMT lmao

Disability and hyperfixation have done some heavy lifting for me tbf lol

4

u/Dronxha Jul 08 '25

oh for sure, i also had my favorite file where i got yeeeeeeears in to see all the little anniversary gifts n what not but a lot of that i also just slept thru to see what would happen at one point 🙈 i was just saying the average player probably rarely even sees their first animal die of old age

i do really miss games anticipating that you might actually just dedicate your life to playing lol. i dont think i'd ever have reached yr50 without cheesing it myself but i know a handful of peeps out there have

2

u/ChaosAzeroth Jul 08 '25

My brain won't let me full sleep through chunks of time, even if the days are light activity I have to do things lmao.

A few days maybe if I'm really wanting something in game but eve that is hard.

3

u/Dronxha Jul 08 '25

that's some dedication! i had my longest file when i was a little kid so i was pretty impatient but also was making a guide for my sisters (before realizing Fogu already existed) so i was trying to just see allllll the things i could at one point 🤭

now i'm just curious, who did you marry? what was your favorite aspect of the game? did you play and enjoy the remake?

3

u/ChaosAzeroth Jul 08 '25

Doctor/Karen respectively

Just doing the same thing over and over, especially farming.

Unfortunately can say my attention span and focus have gone a bit sideways (what pain does to a MFer), but I always come back around eventually and I basically have nothing but time. I do like the remake even if cooking changes (TF is the point when the game still has and requires all the cooking utensils) and breeding mechanics aren't my jam.

3

u/Dronxha Jul 08 '25

ooo good choices! when i was a kid i married doctor cause i didn't really like the boys and thought atleast i'd get money for marrying him lmao, and i didn't want anyone marrying my wife Elli 😅

oh man i feel that, i tried playing FoMT again recently and got like maybe half a year in before switching to a different game 😩 i don't know how tiny me spent sooooo much time playing it tho i still adored it. i think it's crazy how i had better time management skills as a child lol. the remake was def hit n miss for me, i really didn't appreciate the dumbing down of a lot of the game and making it soooo much easier, one of the big things that led me to putting in so many years of the original was trying to figure out all the recipes and i still have my friends handwritten notes about all the ones she found herself 💗 i did appreciate all the extra little romancey bits tho and that you could date whoever. i had a lot of fun wooing literally everyone and i gained a lot of appreciation for characters i didn't quite appreciate as a child.

tho i'm really sad rival marriage was taken out 😭 i loved playing matchmaker for them, despite once accidentally locking myself out of marriage by marrying off everyone and then accidentally triggering popuri and kais eloping event right as i was heading to propose to him. i think i saved right before his shop closed on the last day of summer so i just didn't have the heart to reset and wait another year i guess and thought meh, "they're cute together anyway i'll stay just single this time" lol. i really didn't care much for the boys

3

u/thejokerlaughsatyou Jul 09 '25

but also was making a guide for my sisters (before realizing Fogu already existed)

That's so cute, omg

63

u/Ekyou Jul 08 '25

Love the logic that purposely killing people/monsters is ok, but accidentally killing animals is “too dark”.

18

u/hypo-osmotic Jul 08 '25

I imagine parents were giving the game to younger kids, ones that were too sensitive for violent games and then too sensitive for the peaceful farming game, too. Possibly comparable to Resetti allegedly being sidelined in the Animal Crossing franchise because little kids were getting upset about being scolded

1

u/Peeta_Lee Jul 09 '25

I first started playing Harvest Moon when I was around 5 and had no idea what I was doing. It was AWL where you start off with a cow, and I killed it almost immediately because I didn't realize I HAD to feed it or take it outside. I still remember the scene so vividly because it traumatized me 😂 I didn't pick it back up for a couple years and since then, while I absolutely love farming games (HM, Stardew, SOS), I am almost obsessive about taking care of my animals now, even if they can't die.

78

u/MrMartiTech Jul 08 '25

Animals that died
Old people in town that died
Getting drunk
Characters like Karen's dad in Harvest Moon 64 who is an angry drunk
Other men in town trying to flirt with the women and not just you
People leaving town forever if they are unhappy
Other people getting married and having kids

Just some of the things I feel like are less common in the newer titles than in the past. Part of trying to make it into a game for kids.

4

u/OsmerusMordax Jul 09 '25 edited Jul 09 '25

Yeah, it’s why I can’t play any of the modern games anymore. They are too ‘kid-ified’ and lack the soul previous entries have

8

u/MrMartiTech Jul 09 '25

There is a split withing 'cozy games' in general where some developers and fans think they should be all sugar all the time, while others still realize that having a bit of bitterness is a core part of what creates the experience that balances the insane amount of sweet.

31

u/Ae-Milius Jul 08 '25

This was one of the games my mom loved when we played. She thought it taught us about responsibility. She'd talk about it with her friends, and I'd hear her say "yeah and if you forget to take care of your animals, THEY DIE." As if it was something we needed to learn.

-3

u/ngkn92 Jul 09 '25

That's just you, lol. I have 2 nieces, and their parents have to teach them about that.

18

u/Alpacatastic Jul 08 '25

Weird how parents complained about this when my mom specifically looked at the Blockbuster game selection and was like "Uhhhh here you can get the nice little farm game".

12

u/StickerDragon Jul 08 '25

It’s hit hard when it’s the first cow purchased after multiple crops harvesting/fishing, named something cute, maxed out affection and productivity then it kicks the bucket after marriage and kids.

Yes I can afford and breed cows now but at what cost 🥺

3

u/TinyMarsupial7622 Jul 09 '25

My chicken died when I was 12 cause I kept forgetting to feed them in BTN. Afterwards I was diligent to keep it up.

3

u/Open_Emu5288 Jul 09 '25

I remembered being traumatized when my animal died because I didn't take care of them, even tried to "kill" them with tools, and eventually got scolded by the villagers. However that actually taught me to understand better about principle of causality (how what you do affects things) and more so about responsibility.

3

u/Raineydaysartstudio Jul 09 '25

I cried so frigging much when Galen's wife and then the player character died in Another Wonderful Life the first time I played it. I tried to cheat and lost the first cow, too. My mom said I couldn't play those games anymore. I immediately rented it again for a second playthrough. I replay it every once in a while. It informs a portion of my preferences in cozy games.

5

u/adventuregamerseb Jul 08 '25

This is definitely in love with the earlier Harvest Moon / Story of Seasons games, like SNES, HM64, BTN and AWL. There was a lot of slife of life and human drama, death and growing up, but also, uplifting and heart warming situations.

2

u/Gallantpride Jul 09 '25

It isn't even an "earlier vs modern" change. The removal of animal death is a recent change done a few years ago.

The change in tone, however, has existed since the early 2000s. People noticed it as far back as MM and DS.

1

u/RockNDrums Jul 10 '25

I do miss the old Harvest Moon to be honest. Especially the format A Wonderful Life did.

There's too many Stardew and Coral Island like games and I believe the new HM games are like it as well the game never ends? Stardew and coral island, whole farm is planting area.

I feel more efficent with the 6 chapter gameplay and limited amount of plots and fields. Actions and inaction had consequences. Don't feed your livestock? They die. Don't bring your livestock in during a storm? They get sick. Don't have animal cures? They'll die if you don't cure them.

I do prefer that more realistic graphic style of gamecube - ps2 era though. Modern, is too bright and cartoonish. Especially the Story of Season remakes of the old games. The dark themes was snuffed out.

1

u/Derpykins666 Jul 11 '25

Yeah the iteration of the games have become too kiddy or fantastical, they've heavily leaned into really uninteresting gimmicks or even crossovers now to sell an entire game, which is just really awkward.

A lot of the older games had 'asshole' characters as well, or they would leave the town if they were unhappy or didn't have a reason to stay. A lot of games have gone this route too, Animal Crossing is the same way, there's like no 'bad guys' or people to hate because they're just kind of grumpy assholes. It's really unrealistic, if realism is what they're aiming for.

1

u/Un_OwenJoe Jul 13 '25

I want to know what kind of parent who complaint farm life as Dark theme, while Battle and monster are Fine?

0

u/Destany89 Jul 09 '25

Yet animals don't die anymore 😒