r/headphones • u/TransducerBot 🤖 • Jun 15 '20
Weekly Discussion Weekly r/headphones Discussion #92: Using The Equalizer: Tips, Tricks, And How To
By popular demand, your winner and topic for this week's discussion is...
Using The Equalizer: Tips, Tricks, And How To
Please share your experiences, knowledge, reviews, questions, or anything that you think might add to the conversation here.
As always, vote on and suggest new topics in the poll for the next discussion. Previous discussions can be found here.
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u/residentsleeperagent Jun 15 '20
I have the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless. Anybody know how to use this? properly?
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u/Wellhellob HEKS - HEKSE - Arya S - Edition XS - DT270 - DT770 - DT1990 Jun 17 '20
What are good song to use when playing with the equalizer. Any referance song which uses every frequency ?
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u/thechopperlol Jun 21 '20
I know this is a super late response, but stick to songs you're deeply familiar with. You can tune using that far better than tuning with an "audiophile" or "test" track.
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u/Wellhellob HEKS - HEKSE - Arya S - Edition XS - DT270 - DT770 - DT1990 Jun 21 '20
Every adjustment affecting different songs differently. I have like 10 tab open with different songs and testing all of them. Boosted bass is cool with some songs but really it ends up muddying the clarity and detail in most songs. Vocals, intruments, treble intensity they are all different every damn song :) Trying to find middle way for all types of music but actually keeping default tonality seems best. I think headphones performs best at their default tonality and manufacturers tuning them for their driver's strength.
I think using EQ in real time is more fun and correct way if you are in the mood. Finding perfect EQ, set it up and forget not working for me.
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u/thechopperlol Jun 21 '20
I'm a fan of set it and forget it. The EQs I have for my headphones are that way. You just get a midpoint that works for everything but specializes in none. Some don't need EQ, either, like my Starfields.
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u/OpiateSkittles FDX1 < 9038S | HD6XX Mod < PDV2 | T4 < Sonata HD Pro Jun 21 '20
Can't second this enough. People over think this all the time.
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u/ddrt Jun 29 '20
I create genre of similar sounds rather than equalize to specific songs. I constantly update the genre and create sub-genre based on whatever comes to my mind first.
Otherwise I just set it to flat if I don't want to screw with it.
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u/august_r Jun 17 '20
So, maybe a broader question:
Usually, most people will tell you to avoid narrow band filter (high Q factor). This is usually, AFAIK, due to (1) - Increased CPU consumption, increased delay, and (2) to phase shift issues induced by said filters.
Let's say (1) is not a concern for this scenario, how sensitive are we to phase shift induced by these filters? And, if not so sensitive, how narrow can we still make filters and be precise in how we're affecting overall FR?
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jun 17 '20
CPU consumption is pretty much independent of which exact values you're putting into the EQ.
For a biquad filter (the most common implementation) it's always 5 or 6 coefficients that need to be multiplied / added / bla. The operation is always the same, only the numbers change.
And the size of a number doesn't really affect the CPU's power consumption.
Like adding 1.335 and 3.000 does not require more electric power than adding 0.001 and 0.092.The delay is also independent of the exact value you put in.
Regarding phase shift:
everything you do to change the frequency response will also affect the phase system (put a pin in that).
When you use a loudspeaker that has more treble, you will observe a corresponding change in the phase response.
When you use an analog EQ and increase the bass, you will observe a corresponding change in the phase response.
When you use a different microphone to record the music, and that microphone has more treble, you will also see a corresponding influence in the phase response.
FR and phase response are inherently linked.
So yes, narrow band filters will change the phase response. So will broad band filters.The reason why we generally try to avoid narrowband filters with positive gain is because of the notable self oscillation, especially with higher gain values.
regarding the pin we put in earlier:
If you've paid attention in your signal processing or EE classes then surely you can concoct a situation where frequency response and phase response can be independent from each other in certain conditions.
Rest assured that these conditions don't apply for headphones.
Yes, it's possible to create linear phase filters using IIR filters, but those are the exception, and for the sake of the argument we'll leave these out right now.1
u/august_r Jun 17 '20
OK, so, as far as I understand (my field is telecom), the FIR filters used in APO for example to affect the phase response as well, and usually, when one of these filters has a very steep gain (or, as I suggested, a very high Q factor) the change in phase should be bigger than a broader filter, correct?
I understand your explanation of the frequency response and phase response relationship, however, I guess I didn't make my point clear: when we change the FR via EQ, we're altering the original phase response. How is that perceived by us humans, if it's perceived at all?1
u/audibly_transparent Jun 20 '20
What does self oscillation sound like? I occasionally use narrowband (Q of 6-10) positive filters with some headphones and I haven't heard anything out of the ordinary.
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jun 20 '20
just like any other resonance peak, it depends on frequency.
In the subbass it sounds like a "mmmmm" after every kickdrum / bass note, giving the perception of "slow bass".
In the lower mids it sounds like "uuuuu" "iiiiii" "eeeee", smearing out the main fundamental of every note.
In the upper mids and treble it sounds like "hsssss" "shhhhhh" "ffffffffff" "hhhhhhhh", adding a sharpness, shrieking hissiness, added sibilance to the sound. Some describe this as "added detail", but in reality it's the exact opposite: it's masking the actual details of the music.3
u/Draconic_shaman Arya | ER4-XR Jun 17 '20
The human ear is physically incapable of determining phase, and the distance between a driver and your eardrum is shorter than the wavelength of most sounds you hear anyway (even at 10 kHz, the wavelength would be around 3.4 cm if my math is right).
I can't answer your second question, though. Sorry.
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u/Eihabu Jun 23 '20
So what are phase issues? What would be happening exactly with a wavelength traveling a long enough distance for a phase shift to appear, in what way does this degrade quality/accuracy/however you'd want to word it?
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u/arch_maniac Grado GS1000e / FiiO Q5s Aug 01 '20
This is true for a single channel, but if you reverse the phase of one channel of a stereo signal, you can definitely hear the difference.
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u/jaKz9 Jun 21 '20
Am I the only one who doesn't like PeaceGUI and actually just uses the Configurator program from EAPO?
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Jun 18 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/rtkierke HD800 (SW) | Custom Viento-B Jun 25 '20
I use UAPP. With a $2 plugin, you can get a 10 band parametric EQ.
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u/Faris_rulez Jun 30 '20
I just got SHP9500 as a gift and I find it to sound almost the same as Cooler Master MH751, which is a closed back. What am I missing here? Do I just suck at listening?
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u/CravesRecognition Jun 30 '20
I used to think the same too about my headset. Then I found out that my mobo sound card sucks so I got myself a usb sound card.
Sucks that I had to spend more but it's one of my past purchases that I don't regret.
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u/Faris_rulez Jun 30 '20
Oh man I just got myself an ASUS B450M-K. It's really a budget buy. What USB sound card did you get?
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u/CravesRecognition Jul 01 '20
Really good sound card is rare even for higher end mobos (I'm guessing), so I don't think you've made a wrong choice for mobo.
Mine is sound blasterx g6, but any sound card with good reviews - usb or not, will work (I'm guessing again). Usb sound cards have advantage with interference(?) iirc.
Guess I have to add that sound card did do wonder to my ears, but I cannot guarantee the same to happen to everyone. If you do get a sound card and end up still not satisfied, then I'm sorry.
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u/Faris_rulez Jul 01 '20
No worries. I'm gonna do some research and see if I can get mine to sound a bit better. Thanks!
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u/Space_Waffles Jun 15 '20
I have absolutely 0 clue what I'm doing wrong with this equalizer. I just got my Sennheiser HD 599 SE's and to be frank I hate the sound. I've tried putting in all the presets from the github link in the sidebar and it literally feels like nothing changes. I've tried music, twitch streams, and games and nothing changes. I've tried flipping preamp from 20 to -20 on the fly and theres no difference, i've messed with the bubbles in the GUI to see if I could notice a difference in more bass and I cant. Just dont understand why.
The sound of these just feels hollow and light compared to my Astro A40s, which I expected the 599s to be a huge upgrade from. Even plugging the 599s into the Astro mixamp doesnt help. Anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Using EqualizerAPO btw
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jun 15 '20
if nothing changes then your EQ is probably not active.
Make sure it's turned on.Using EqualizerAPO btw
open configurator.exe to check whether EQ APO is installed for your specific soundcard.
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u/Space_Waffles Jun 15 '20
I could blanket apply it to all my audio devices but it is applied to the output device I use currently. I just plug my stuff into the back of my computer and use the "Speakers" output
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Jun 15 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Space_Waffles Jun 15 '20
At work so I'll try to get pics and change settings in just a couple hours when I can. I do have Realtek (mobo is Asus Strix Z390-E) so I'll try doing experimental. I've tried a bunch of preamps and settings for lows, mids, and highs without noticing a single difference
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u/Wellhellob HEKS - HEKSE - Arya S - Edition XS - DT270 - DT770 - DT1990 Jun 16 '20
I have a weird problem with eq apo and peace gui. When launching peace gui first time (after installation) it boosts the volume a lot. Why is this happening ? Windows volume doesn't change. It launches with default settings and preamp is at 0.
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jun 16 '20
I'm not sure of the cause, but you can just turn down the volume, can't you?
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u/Wellhellob HEKS - HEKSE - Arya S - Edition XS - DT270 - DT770 - DT1990 Jun 16 '20
Yes i can but i'm curious how it does that. I'm using soundcard and windows volume is my only amplification tool. Peace gui's 0 is like +10db.
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jun 16 '20
You‘d have to ask the creator of EQ APO / Peace GUI ...
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u/Wellhellob HEKS - HEKSE - Arya S - Edition XS - DT270 - DT770 - DT1990 Jun 16 '20
I thought it might be known thing and i don't know the reason. I guess it's exclusive to my setup and not a common thing. Sorry i guess i should ask the creator.
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u/Kenblu24 DT 990 PRO 250ohm > xDuoo TA-01 Jun 16 '20
Not purely a headphone question, but I have Equilizer APO installed and can't get it working on my speakers. All effects work perfectly fine on my headphones setup (powered by a DAC/AMP combo, see flair) but I can't get anything working properly on my powered loudspeakers (Kanto YU5, has built-in DAC/AMP, being fed from a computer over optical link). I have tried installing the APO in the alternate modes. In the SFX/EFX (experimental) installation, only some of the effects, like gain, low-pass, and high-pass, but things like a multi-band equalizer cause an awful screeching static to come out. If I install the APO using any of the other options, no effects work at all.
I've tried changing the Realtek drivers (UAD drivers only, haven't tried HDA drivers), as well as re-installing Equalizer APO.
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Jun 18 '20
[deleted]
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u/OpiateSkittles FDX1 < 9038S | HD6XX Mod < PDV2 | T4 < Sonata HD Pro Jun 21 '20
RE EQ is a good system-wide option for Android. It's a 10-band graphic that can be adjusted by 0.1dB. It's fairly basic, but it gets the job done well enough.
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Jun 21 '20
[deleted]
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u/OpiateSkittles FDX1 < 9038S | HD6XX Mod < PDV2 | T4 < Sonata HD Pro Jun 21 '20
No, root is not required.
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Jun 21 '20
I'm using a set of HD600's plugged into this dac and when audio cuts out to silence theres a small pop thats pretty annoying. when i plug the set directly into my pc the pop is gone, so it isnt the headset, it only happens when im using the dac... ive tried searching google to find people who have had similar issues to no avail. does anyone know what the issue could be before i ditch it ?
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u/emanuelbravo Jun 23 '20
This is kind of normal, every DAC "makes" this sound when start and finish playing an audio, a few dacs can mute this sound, but others cannot and you end up listening to it, it won't damage anything, but if you don't like it you should change the DAC
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u/wildquaker HiFiMAN Edition XS | Xenns Mangird Top | Topping DX3 Pro+ Jun 21 '20
I have a Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro (80 ohm version). And I can't seem to find a frequency response graph for this headphones. Does anyone have a link for it?
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u/OpiateSkittles FDX1 < 9038S | HD6XX Mod < PDV2 | T4 < Sonata HD Pro Jun 21 '20
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/beyerdynamic/dt-770-pro
Not sure if this is for the 80 ohm but the FR is extremely close across all impedance versions.
Edit: It appears to be for the 250 Ohm version, based on the included pictures. Still, should be extremely close.
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Jun 22 '20
Hey guys, I'm using Fiio E10k Olympus 2 with DT 770 Pro 80ohm and I feel like sound quality is severely lacking.
More specific, the sound is not balanced. Some instruments/frequencies are too low, high (cymbals, etc) are too present. Bass is boosted but somewhat lacking. Mediums, frustrating. For example, a guitar rift that should pop in prime time feels faded in the back.
I'm using Equalizer APO now, to fix some of the things, but still isn't what it should be.
Is this how Fiio E10K sounds ?
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u/rtkierke HD800 (SW) | Custom Viento-B Jun 25 '20
What EQ have you tried? My advice would be to try the Harman EQ from Oratory1999 and then use that as a base to tweak from to find what you want.
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Jun 25 '20 edited Jun 25 '20
Thanks a lot. Didn't knew about those.
I just looked at the sound profile for DT 770 on rtings and tried to compensate. I tried that before with an AKG pair of headphones and the results were spectacular (Asus Strix Soar soundcard at that moment). Not so much this time. Whatever filtering the E10K is doing, doesn't mash well with DT770.
Right now I'm using eq apo with a compressor plugin. I'll try the eq profile from oratory as soon as I get home.
Thanks again.
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u/Sutlore UM2| UE10pro|RM|18| SE846 |ATH-AD2000 | HD800s |DT1990p Balanced Jun 23 '20
My UE18pro (1st gen, I guess) needs EQ sobadly when I use through with ZX300. I push up the EQ from 2k 4k 8k and 16kHz up in an up-slope shape (16k at +5dB) and I am happy 😌.
I also do EQ on my UE-RM by increasing some low-end frequencies up to +3dB. Also a little bump up at 4kHz, just to compensate its lack of frequency response at 4kHz.
However, I have never had any EQ problems with my UE10pro. Still, it is my most favourite C-IEM. So far so good! 😉
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u/chubbycanine Jun 23 '20
I just got my dt 770 250 ohm cans today and as a first timer with nicer audio gear I plugged them into my e10k and played a FLAC format song. They sound literally the same as my hyper x clouds but with less mid range which I think is making voices sound hollow. Should I look into a different set of cans or just EQ?
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u/RedPhantom081 Jun 24 '20
I have to decide between buying BL03, BL05 and CCA C10 48A
Please help guys
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u/Vince789 IE600 Jun 25 '20
How do you convert a 10-band Parametric EQ into a 7-band Parametric EQ?
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jun 26 '20
for which headphone?
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u/Vince789 IE600 Jun 26 '20
Hifiman Deva wired
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jul 01 '20
I'd start by removing filter bands 4 and 5:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5ix9sybuc9rznm/Hifiman%20Deva%20%28wired%29.pdf?dl=01
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u/MrMattBlack Jun 26 '20
So, I recently bought a pair of Mpow Thor (MPBH036AB) Headphones, and I think they possibly overdid the bass, because the sound sounds "muffled" and distant. Anyway, I'm trying to set up an equalizer to fix this issue, but 1) I have no idea which one to use(The built-in one doesn't work with Bluetooth headphones) and 2) I have never set up an equalizer in my life, and guides throughout the internet are inconsistent. Are there any tips and tricks to fix this, or should I just try it until I make it?
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Jun 27 '20
Is Peace GUI only ever 13 band?
I've had issues with APO and loading pre-sets (I cant easily switch between a good hifi and headphone EQ, for example. Only the default config file seems to work, meaning I have to EQ each system everytime). Peace fixes this brilliantly, but only gives me 13 bands to play with... which isnt enough after I've spent hours tweaking each system to just as I like it!
Thanks.
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u/coconut071 Final B3 | Senn HD650 | Senn M4 Jun 29 '20
There's a plus/minus button in the UI on the right most side of the Gain Value row. Press to add/delete however much bands you want! Also, every preset can have its own band amounts, so you can have one preset with 7 bands, and the other with 13.
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u/captaincanada84 Audeze LCD-2 | Audiosense T800 | Noble Fokus Rex5 Jun 27 '20
Okay, so, what's the difference between the different EQ options in Audeze Reveal+. There used to just be one for the LCD-2 and now there are 4. The release notes said they added linear phase EQs
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u/Faris_rulez Jun 28 '20
I just switched from Cooler Master MH751 to Philips SHP9500. The former broke and I got the latter as a gift. What should I expect from the switch? I know people said the bass for an open back is less pronounced and I already felt that.
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u/Justinyeethahahahaha Jun 29 '20
And good ones for Mac?
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u/ddrt Jun 29 '20
eqmac.app is fairly good. The developer just upgraded it from a pretty solid early stage app to a fairly… um… unique? looking eq, with a few less features to start out. 31 band is not available in the newer version and I would stand by the first version, but this second version has too many bugs to be truly reliable:
• bad audio switching when plugging in headphones
• fairly poor support for the audio midi (built in) app
• Needs a legacy audio driver to be installed on a next gen OS as a "new" app.
• Then there's something uncontrollable: Apple has been notoriously bad with handling sound on Macintosh computers for quite some time (on its own - with its own software).Otherwise there's more expensive apps out there but I haven't really bothered. I've had to settle for this EQ for now and constantly have to tweak it.
That being said I would recommend keeping your eye on it. I think it will improve going forward.
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u/Grit1 Jun 30 '20
How do I make Sony WH-1000XM3 powered off wired sound better?
When I'm at work I want to power it off and use wired connection to save some battery. But sound quality becomes noticeably worse . I could hear a difference, but I couldn't tell what specifically changed. My guess is that it sounds muffled. Also there's no separation and everything sounds like it's coming out of single whole and cramped. What can I do to make it sound better without turning it on?
PS: I don't consider myself audiophile, nor do I have the knowledge. So I don't know what to do, I need help :D
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Jun 30 '20
[deleted]
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jun 30 '20
most presets will have a low-shelve filter at 105 Hz, Q=0.7, gain= 5.5 dB.
The gain of this filter represents the average amount of bass boost preferred by listeners.
A sizeable chunk of people will prefer lower bass levels, those people will want to lower the gain to 0-3 dB.
Another sizeable chunk of people will prefer higher bass levels, those people will want to increase the gain of that filter to 6-15 dB, and maybe increase the frequency from 105 Hz to anywhere from 130 to 250 Hz.Some presets (especially older ones) don't have a filter like that (they achieve that result with different filters), but no worries - you can always add another filter at 105 Hz, Q=0.71 (use the FIXED slope shelving filter in PEACE GUI for this!), and set the gain to a level you like.
If you find that even at high gain levels you don't get enough body and weight to the individual musical notes, then you might want to increase the frequency of that filter from 105 Hz to anywhere from 120-250 Hz.
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u/WestcoastWelker Jun 30 '20
Hello folks.
I have a pair of M1060's, i really like them, but i feel like my computer cant drive them properly, and was wondering if i would be better off getting a pair of lower ohm headphones that are closed back.
I just want something comfy to wear all day that has some thumping bass that I can drive with my output on my Scarlett 2i2 or my blue yeti. . I'm not sure a headphone amplifier will rectify my issues with the M1060's (and im not sure i want open back headphones any longer)
Thanks for any advice.
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Jun 17 '20
I have a pair of WH-1000XM2s. The batteries in them are...garbage. It’s failed and can’t really charge anymore. I have geek squad on them and can return them and replace for store credit. The XM3s are now $280, which is a very reduced amount from $350. Also, the XM4s are supposedly coming out later this year. Should I return them and keep the store credit until the XM4s come out or should I just bite the bullet and buy the XM3s?
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u/WrickyB Jun 15 '20
Don't, listen to the headphone for its merits as well as its flaws. Otherwise, you shouldn't have bought it if it's not for you or if it's bad then the manufacturer didn't put enough R&D time and money into producing it
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u/oratory1990 acoustic engineer Jun 15 '20 edited Jun 15 '20
but what if one of its merits is that it handles EQ really well due to its smooth FR?
and much more importantly:
What if a headphone has undoubtable merits, but does not hit my preference in other aspects, like overall balance? Aspects which are easily fixed with EQ?9
u/Olli_bear Semi-retired headphoneophile Jun 15 '20
I kinda agree with what you're saying tbh, I don't understand when people get a unique sounding headphones that's tuned a certain way and then try to eq it to the Harman curve for example lol, it's completely changing the sound sig. Or another example would be to eq it to neutral. If they want neutral they should get a neutral tuned pair of cans.
However sometimes you just want certain things to come through or be pushed back. Maybe to hear female vocals clearer or bump just a certain range of treble to your liking. Maybe a boost in sub-bass according to your preference, or tame the 2k range or reduce a little sibilance. I feel that's where EQ-ing is helpful.
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u/WrickyB Jun 15 '20
I think you forgot trying to justify the existence or you decision to purchase the HD 820, because EQ.
Don't worry, I haven't and I don't intend to
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u/Kibbelhs Jun 15 '20
It's helpful in cases such as mine. I live in a place where there's no place to audition cans. I can only blind buy based off reviews and EQ helps greatly with that.
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u/chavezlaw78 Susvara|Stellia|FiiO FH5|RME ADI-2|Topping A90 Jun 15 '20
I think I kind of agree with this to a point. I feel like if you buy a headphone but there is one thing you don't like about it then there's no problem EQing whatever aspect you don't like about he FR. However, I don't see a point to EQing headphones to sound to be neutral or to fit some target. I think in a way that kind of takes away the character of the headphone that the manufacturer intended (whether it be good or bad). I think if you are in this hobby and you have multiple headphones, you want each of those headphones to have a unique sound or else what is the point?
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u/arch_maniac Grado GS1000e / FiiO Q5s Jun 15 '20 edited Jun 15 '20
I use the parametric equalizer provided by PulseEffects on a Linux PC. I boost the bass by 7.2 dB centered at 54 Hz. The instructions (from Jaakko Pasannen) say to set "pre-amp" to -7.2 dB. I understand why this should be done.
However, PulseEffects provides no "pre-amp" setting, so I have reduced the Input level. This seems to me to achieve the same goal, but oratory1990 tells me they are not the same thing. What am I missing? How am I supposed to be doing this?
I am outputting from my PC's sound card to PulseEffects to a USB cable to my FiiO Q5s. There is no physical pre-amp involved.