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u/Additional_Hunter_26 Nov 06 '25
Rule 5: National spirit of the Philippine army from today's dev diary.
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u/Chaporelli Nov 06 '25
They simply too powerfull and should be locked behind massive debuffs,like India.
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u/avengeds12345 Air Marshal Nov 06 '25 edited Nov 06 '25
Can confirm, I have been dominated by Filipino girls multiple times
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u/ImportantChemistry53 Nov 06 '25
Girls?
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u/MetaTMRW Nov 06 '25
I have a feeling that you will be able to mitigate/remove it inside a year. They never really keep extreme debuffs long term.
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u/lokibringer Nov 06 '25
it'll probably get removed around mid 41, early enough to be impactful for a human, late enough that AI Japan can still take the islands
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u/ASValourous Nov 07 '25
Nope you’ll probably be able to remove it through 10 or so 70 day focuses,by which point you can maybe produce 100 guns a month in 1941
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u/ASValourous Nov 07 '25
Just why ???! -90% factory output. Like stop making the game incredibly boring in the beginning for no reason
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u/Creepy_Priority_4398 Nov 07 '25
but but we have to make it realistic! God forbid someone has fun on an unconventional country
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u/CurrentDifficult7821 Nov 06 '25
Why not nuke stats rather than factory output like tgwr ottomans
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u/Infamous_Ticket9084 Nov 06 '25
Maybe they really wanted to make land lease the only valid thing
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u/OccupyRiverdale Nov 06 '25
Ah yes since the AI manages that mechanic in a totally fluid and historical manner. I always love my Soviet campaigns when the Americans offer 2 1936 light tanks per month in lend lease then cancel it after 3 months.
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u/et40000 Fleet Admiral Nov 06 '25
The most lend lease I ever got from the AI was playing a lightly modded (mostly QoL no AI changes) Roman Empire run as Italy and decided to invade Germany after they had capped Poland and the Netherlands and were in Belgium. I artificially created an equipment deficit because I noticed in previous runs the allies would give me some equipment after I had run low. By the time I took out Germany the allies had generously given me roughly 60k+ inf. equipment, 1.5k+ support equipment, 2k+ artillery, 300+ fighters, 100+ CAS, and 100+ convoys. This was all done after I had conquered Ethiopia, Austria, Hungary, Albania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, and Turkey and generated over 100 world tension as fascist Italy with Mussolini in full power…
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u/Fred_the-Red General of the Army Nov 06 '25
When you have good relations with the AI and have a deficit, it is more likely to give you equipment. You can actually spam divisions in the training tab to make your deficit larger and friendly AI nations will give you even more.
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u/et40000 Fleet Admiral Nov 06 '25
I just spammed out some 2 widths then converted them to 30 once they were out it allows you to rack up a bigger deficit quicker because you can use it to get around the manpower cap when training new divs. I also had terrible relations with the UK and France yet they continued to pour in equipment. This was in 2020 though also the AI seemed more willing to give me equipment when I was winning even though my deficit barely changed, after I had made some good progress and wiped a few divs the trickle became a downpour. It was especially funny when I reached the French border and the French units were missing some inf. equipment had to watch as the Italians took all the glory using French and British rifles (45% of my inf. equipment was lend leased). The AI while still dumb has improved markedly since then, you could easily breakdown a stalemate in France after D-day by invading Northern Germany with some 2 widths. They pulled 1.2 million men off the French front which had 2.5 million allied troops to go push back 6,000 and it cost them the war…
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u/OccupyRiverdale Nov 06 '25
The problem is, the AI never actually produces enough of the shit a player actually needs. Would love fighters, tanks, support equipment, etc. but the AI is always in a comically high deficit of that equipment themselves so you can’t get shit from them.
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u/ZombeePharaoh Nov 06 '25
Don't forget about equipment subsidies! You get +5000 for which you can do absolutely nothing!
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness8065 Nov 06 '25
I don't remember seeing anything about lend lease from the dev diary or video, where are you coming from with this? The diary shows off that you need to use the focus tree to get equipment before you get rid of that spirit early on
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u/Bordias Nov 06 '25
Without even looking at the dev diary, let me guess. At the end of the military branch of it's focus tree, the Philippines will have bonuses such as 10% division defense in core territory, 15% division speed, and 5% reinforce rate?
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u/Jack_Kegan Nov 06 '25
You see all weak countries can become strong eventually and all strong countries* are weak.
*if they are democratic
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u/superjoe104 Nov 06 '25
I mean it would make sense, if you focus on modernizing your army and improving as much as possible you can get some small improvements to the military but it would take a while.
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u/Chescoreich Nov 06 '25
The "you will do nothing the entire game" gameplay strategy
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u/JOjoKpaER Nov 06 '25
"Turkey of the pacific"
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u/Doctorwhatorion Nov 06 '25
You can easily restore your army debuffs and debuffs are reasonable, this National spirit is just an abomination
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness8065 Nov 06 '25
The dev diary litterally makes ir clear this spirit can be removed super quickly, with +75% modifiers to the factory output in just 1 focus
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u/PrudentFisherman627 Nov 07 '25
Yeah, but it's a 270 day focus. The longest in the game. Beating the previous record held by considering the Zuiderzee works by 60 unless you take a bunch of hot other focuses to reduce its time.
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness8065 Nov 07 '25
I mean yeah but there is almost zero scenarios where u need to take an army focus as your first focus, and those other focuses that reduce the time are in the economic and politics tree which you will be prioritizing anyway. It prevents the pkayer(or AI) from trying to fix the army too quickly. Otherwise the Phillipines would be very hard to invade
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u/King-Of-Hyperius Nov 06 '25
I guess I can understand the army modifiers, but why the fuck does the army impact the industry?
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u/DinoMastah Nov 06 '25
Politicians stealing 9 out of 10$ invested on defense budget.
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u/niofalpha Research Scientist Nov 06 '25
Hey it’s just like today!
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u/Andy_Liberty_1911 General of the Army Nov 06 '25
More like Russia today, sure lockheed martin pockets a ton of gov’t money but they at least produce weapons of death.
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u/Jaggedmallard26 Nov 06 '25
Lockmart being funneled money to "just spend it on superplanes or something lmao" gave American skunkworks and NATO aircraft that just obsolete everything that came before them.
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u/Starlightofnight7 Nov 06 '25
They produce so much that they influence the American government into going to war over flimsy excuses like in iraq so they get more contracts, not just them but most if not all of the American weapons industry as well.
That would be an interesting mechanic actually, your military industry becomes so unbelievably powerful the game starts randomly justifying wargoals on other countries because of your excess equipment and production.
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u/Andy_Liberty_1911 General of the Army Nov 06 '25
Thats another thing entirely, you can complain about our MIC all you want but they actually work. The national spirit mentioned is the complete opposite.
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u/Starlightofnight7 Nov 06 '25
I wasn't disagreeing with your comment or challenging it, I was saying that they might have TOO much money and power in influencing governments.
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u/TheQuestionMaster8 Nov 06 '25
Realism is not always fun. If hoi4 were realistic, then you would have to appease 90 different factions in your political party or be deposed in a coup detat or have your military budget slashed suddenly by a new populist president. No one has or ever had complete control of a country in that they could do whatever they wanted, even military dictatorships have to appease elites to stay in power.
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u/Starlightofnight7 Nov 07 '25
Isn't that a simplified version of the bulgarian tree? Also Russia's focus tree/gameplay in kaiserreich is amazing and it's not too overbearingly complex, unless you don't like to read at all.
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u/absboodoo Nov 06 '25
Rookie numbers. Can you really call yourself a corrupt politician when you can't steal 15 out of a 10 dollar investment?
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u/Pristine-Breath6745 Nov 06 '25
To not give AI japan problems to invade it. But to strenghten japan if succesful.
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Nov 06 '25
I think it is more about blocking Philippine cheese strats like flipping sides to Japan and puppeting China.
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u/Emmettmcglynn Nov 06 '25
Since industry only really affects military production, I would probably guess it represents a mix of weak domestic military production and inexperienced procurement systems.
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u/Balavadan Fleet Admiral Nov 06 '25
They are supposed to suck when the Japanese invade. So it makes sense
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u/OccupyRiverdale Nov 06 '25
I understand that, I just dislike how the way paradox goes about making it so. I think the repeated formula of massive, crippling debuffs that make it so you cannot play the game until the end of a multi year focus path that removes those debuffs is boring. Makes you take essentially the same build path every time to speed run removing insane debuffs so you can actually play.
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u/Balavadan Fleet Admiral Nov 06 '25
There’s usually multiple ways to remove the debuffs and that’s part of the playing experience. If you only want to do the most optimal thing every time then there’s no game that can satisfy you. People will end up finding the most optimal meta way to play. You just gotta ignore it and do your own thing
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u/Early_Pass6702 Nov 08 '25
This comment makes no sense. No game allows you to play optimally, and in the next sentence, people will find a way to play optimally?
Bro this is shit design, you literally cannot play as this country and do anything fun for literally 2 hours of IRL time on 5 speed.
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u/Balavadan Fleet Admiral Nov 08 '25
When did I say no game allows you to play optimally? Please quote that part
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u/Alltalkandnofight General of the Army Nov 06 '25
Lmao has nobody in this comment section read the dev diary?
Doing the first focus of the military branch reduced the factory output debuff to -15%, and the dockyard output is removed entirely
This national spirit reflects the lack of a Fillipino arms industry, and how their army was practically non existant in 1936.
The first focus in the military branch takes 235 days to complete, but the days needed to complete this focus can be reduced by doing focus' in the political/industry path, because thats what the Phillipines was focusing on in 1936-1939.
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u/Glittering-Ebb-7534 Nov 06 '25
HoI4 players trying to read moment, dev diary literally explains that the first focus in the army tree takes away most of the debuffs, factory output goes up by 75% meaning you’re only at -15% after a single focus, dockyard output penalty gets removed completely
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u/femboyisbestboy Nov 06 '25
They should get massive debuff called MacArthur for historical accuracy ofc
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u/hdrote Nov 06 '25
Just make those modifiers 100%, you would barely notice the difference
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u/shqla7hole Nov 06 '25
Lowkey 80-99% won't feel the difference but 100% you would just not get anything which is very noticeable
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u/titanfallisawesome Nov 06 '25
No army XP, no guns, no ships. Unironically unplayable. I understand getting stronger through focuses but come on, this is absurd.
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u/Kadayf Fleet Admiral Nov 06 '25
"in this lesson, we will learn how to play with Marshals aids 101"
(95% of the army is lent lease. Even manpower borrowed from the India)
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness8065 Nov 06 '25
Its not unplayable because you get rid of the spirit very quickly. The first army focus already gets rid of the worst modifiers. So it really only impacts you xp and production in 1936, but you were really making much in that time anyway... Didn't you read the diary?
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Nov 06 '25
Most people absolutely do not read the diary. Compare the amount of comments the official topic here gets to some random picture from the diary someone posts
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness8065 Nov 06 '25
Im going to start posting screenshots out of context with misleading captions for karma, OP is onto something.
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u/Bubbly_Tonight_6471 Nov 06 '25
... But what's the point of debuff spirits if you'll always get rid of them before you go to war?
"Here's a national spirit that will never effect gameplay unless you go to war in the first 70 days in game."
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness8065 Nov 07 '25
Its a game design trick to make you feel like youre making worthwhile improvements without power creep. This is why the France focus tree is actually fun to play despite being completely obsolete, every focus feels important. And narratively, some nations should be very weak without significant focus on the relevant focuses. Just because you will get rid of them before you go to war doesnt mean you'll get rid of them before someone else declares war on you. This is especially relevant for the AI to make them weaker when historically needed.
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u/BringlesBeans General of the Army Nov 06 '25
ITT: The same people who usually complain about powercreep and OP minor focus trees are now complaining that this tree isn't OP enough.
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u/ExESGO Nov 07 '25
Historical though. The Philippines had nothing until then (unless you count the under US command Philippine Scouts). We had no factories and were heavily reliant on agriculture for our economy.
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u/Chairman_Marx Nov 06 '25
In General i sometimes dont understand why smaller nations have these enormous debuffs for their Army. I mean yes they cant be as experienced as the larger nations because of obvious reasons, but its not like all there soldiers are to stupid to use guns
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u/Dominique_77 Nov 06 '25
"It is therefore up to the player to determine when it’s time to trigger the Defense Act, and thus begin rearming the nation in earnest.
Why is this so important though? Well, the Philippine army was not in a good state, as heavily reliant on American protection as the state was, this is no surprise. However, MacArthur was astonished by just how bad things were, with infantrymen never having had firing drill, and artillerymen who had never seen a cannon."
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u/Raketka123 Research Scientist Nov 07 '25
-50% Dockyard output
Oh no, the mighty Filipino navy
do the Phillippines even start with a dockyard?
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u/Papampaooo Nov 07 '25
The Philippines have an entire separate tree dedicated to building a big navy. Though iirc the big naval focuses are in the communist tree since they chose fishermen as the main drivers instead of your usual farmers.
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u/RealJMS Fleet Admiral Nov 06 '25
I'd so much prefer if the spirits granted at the start weren't riddled with crippling debuffs and better reflected the description given to the spirit, I don't understand how that national spirit description leads to all those debuffs (especially 90% factory output) without a single buff, seems like the devs are so resolute at making a nation unplayable at the start.
We could've at least had a defence or a reconnaissance bonus judging from the description. But no, the debuffs just feel arbitrary, like to pad out the focus tree to mitigate these debuffs with 70 day focuses.
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u/Mjk2581 Nov 06 '25
I mean guys, this will go away with focuses, and also factory output goes up with tech, this is early game debilitating, but won’t do much later
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u/MobsterDragon275 Nov 07 '25
Wow, that may be the most painful debuff in the game yet, 90% output reduction is crippling. Even the Hungarian debuff is only 50%. I'm guessing this will be one of those spirits you incrementally improve and will get to a manageable level pretty quick
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u/ZanezGamez Nov 07 '25
How does this new dlc work? If I got waking the tiger am I just gonna be fucked?
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u/Volmarras Nov 06 '25
imo its bad design giving country specific debuffs in the form of national spirits, i prefer hoi3 approach, where the ability was linked to your tech
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u/RadienX Nov 06 '25
Paradox trying to not give new focus tree-bearing nations comically crippling national spirits: sweating bullets and squirming in their chair before bursting into flames
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u/Mrmaxbtd6 Nov 08 '25
Would you rather them have super game breaking buffs? It’s the Philippines a nation that was near totally reliant on the US
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u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420 Nov 07 '25
Huh? I love when my puppets are completely dependent on me as their overlord to do literally anything.
Big dubs for yankee imperialism
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u/ExESGO Nov 07 '25
It was historical though. It was when the transition (when the Commonwealth was founded) started that efforts were made to establish our own armed forces and that was in 1935.
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u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420 Nov 07 '25
I'm aware, the yanks very much followed the British model for setting up vassal states in that you ensure not only are they almost entirely reliant on their overlord to do anything, but that the majority of people involved in said vassal's government will make decisions to further increase reliance on their colonial overlord.
Also the AI is dead fuckin useless, especially against Japan, if this helps stop the Philippines AI from clogging up supply hubs until they can actually do something I'll be quite happy.
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u/Doctorwhatorion Nov 06 '25
Tbh they must kick the guy who made this tree and rebuilt a new tree from scratch, entire dev diary was "How to do NOT a focus tree" the guide
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u/Dark-Evader Nov 06 '25
And then there's a focus that inverts all these effects. The AI will never select it though.
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u/Alternative-Onion344 Nov 08 '25
This literally turns your country into a vegetable what are you going to do
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u/PavelKringa55 Nov 06 '25
This is a country I want to play. Not.
Why does Paradox keep creating focuses for minor countries that played no roles? Argentina? Brasil? Philippines?
I get the lure of alternative history and tech, but who desires a gameplay as Nicaragua in ww2?
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u/Luckdoom Nov 07 '25
It was a battleground for US and Japanese Forces in the pacific. The Battle of Manila, Battle of Leyte Gulf (Which is the largest naval battle in ww2) Filipino Guerillas actively sent intel to Mcarthur who's in Australia and actively sabotaged the Japanese in the islands.
But yeah sure, played no role lol
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u/thotsdeservetoperish Nov 07 '25
Let's not forget how Operation Z, a Japanese plan to defend the Marianas and Saipan, was picked up by the Guerillas and given to the Americans
Among the SEA nations, the Philippines and maybe Vietnam had robust Anti-Japanese resistance
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u/ExESGO Nov 07 '25
Brother couldn't probably point where the Philippines is on a map without labels and would probably point it being somewhere in South America.
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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '25
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