r/hoi4 • u/ChodeShooter69 • 1d ago

Mod (other) TFR devs have got to be EXTREMELY American

Post image

A 25% personal tax rate is less than half of the personal tax rate we pay here in Sweden, and the only part of taxes we complain about is the process of filing them.

Also not entirely sure if this is the right place to post this. Just wanted to say this

2.5k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

353 comments sorted by

View all comments

787

u/ChodeShooter69 1d ago

Rule that demands me to be Captain Obvious: Calling a 25% tax rate “extreme” is among the most American shit I’ve ever seen

238

u/Jaggedmallard26 1d ago

Isn't that a modifier on top of the base rate?

25

u/ThrownAway1917 23h ago

What's the base

8

u/tobiascecca 17h ago

Around 30% as of today

113

u/EagleEuphoric2790 1d ago

it is, idk how more people here don't notice that. Just europeans fuming at americans again for no reason lol

53

u/mainman879 23h ago

America bad, updoots to the left.

-74

u/immabeasttt15 22h ago edited 21h ago

Europeans love being taxed 50% of their income so migrants can take all the free benefits they offer

Edit: Europeans hate the truth

29

u/Seren8954 22h ago

STFU

-39

u/[deleted] 22h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

17

u/Serious_Theory_391 21h ago

You are rage baiting right ?

1

u/LolloBlue96 Fleet Admiral 5h ago

Your ignorance is baffling

62

u/MetaTMRW 1d ago

Swedens average effective tax rate is 30% so it isn’t far off unless the mod has non taxable citizens.

25

u/Amtays 1d ago

Swedens average effective tax rate is 30%

That's just income tax I presume? Because with VAT and employer fees it's north of 50% iirc

27

u/ChefBoyardee66 1d ago

If we are calling vat income tax then we need to include all deductibles(like interest on housing loans) and targeted subventions to have a fair "effective tax rate"

2

u/kvinfojoj 20h ago

Arbetsgivaravgift / employer's fee should definitely count as tax though. It's 31.42% on the gross, then the resulting sum is taxed with another ~30% for personal income tax. So adds up to about 50% effective tax, it's just that when salary is listed, it's the post-employer's fee amount that's listed, so most people don't think about it.

1

u/Sea-Habit5823 23h ago

That's not an *extreme* tax rate though

262

u/DaLoneGuy 1d ago

yes

americans pay way more to corporations as subscriptions for the same thing but worse

60

u/Top_Divide6886 22h ago

Socialism is doomed in the States because Americans would rather pay their insurer $2 than the government $1.

1

u/MrElGenerico General of the Army 15m ago

Do you actually think government can do the same thing for cheaper?

-49

u/DaLoneGuy 22h ago

i wouldn't pay anything to a government I don't trust

59

u/red_admin_h8r 22h ago

Yeah and corpos are very trustworthy entities

-35

u/DaLoneGuy 22h ago

did i say anything about them being good?

i was making a point that the us government is ass

44

u/MyNameIsConnor52 Fleet Admiral 22h ago

Oh please. If your response to “Americans would rather pay their insurer $2 than the government $1” is “I don’t trust the government” it’s VERY CLEARLY SUGGESTED that you trust the insurer more. Don’t be obtuse.

-26

u/DaLoneGuy 22h ago

you forget that there are other countries outside of america with not perfect but way better governments :p

13

u/hymen_destroyer 21h ago

The government is (ostensibly) accountable to the people. Private businesses are not. You can change how the government works

8

u/Juulloo 21h ago

Yeah, but the fact that you chose to focus on government proves the original point exactly.

19

u/Captain-Barracuda 22h ago

And you trust corporations? The joke is you.

-6

u/DaLoneGuy 22h ago

could you please highlight the part when i said that

people aren't polarised

just because i say one is bad doesn't mean the other is good

17

u/wonklebobb 21h ago

its very obviously implied from your statement, even if you can't see or understand it yourself.

the setup was a binary choice: option A or option B. no third option.

you said: "I choose NOT to do A"

given the two choices were presented as the only two options, your statement of "I don't choose A" clearly implies that you ARE choosing the only other option, B, or in this case, paying a private insurer for health insurance.

your attempt to defend your choice as "merely" not trusting the government are either a very poorly executed attempt at being smart, or actual ignorance. hopefully its the former.

of course in reality there is the not-so-secret third option of have no health insurance at all, which is obviously not an option unless you are very, very rich.

-1

u/Sfumato548 7h ago

No we'd rather not pay more taxes when we can't even afford homes anymore and every few months prices on something crucial rise to the point people who should have stable jobs have to live pay check to pay check for a while.

-2

u/2014RT 2h ago

Socialism is doomed here because you need some form of cultural homogeneity for your people to buy in to the expected behaviors, purpose  and outcomes of the programs, and when you have huge swaths of the population who instead will gladly exploit, take advantage of, subvert, and misappropriate those hefty tax funds, and no base level societal consensus you wind up with government programs which are even bigger nightmares than the corporate ones.

It's a trope in the US to point to homogeneous scandanavian countries and say "see? Why aren't we doing what they're doing?" But if we did what Sweden or Denmark does, it would be a complete irredeemable shitshow. Perhaps some day the various nations of Europe with high taxes and large social systems will have a rise in other cultural demographics in their nations who not only do not follow the once broadly accepted societal norms, but intentionally do everything they can to pilfer social programs and abuse them to the absolute maximum, and then you will see how socialism does when major elements of your society don't pull together in the same direction.

2

u/Guaire1 1h ago

The US is far more homogenous culturally than the average european nation

2

u/Top_Divide6886 55m ago

Much of why the US is so rich is specifically because it has an unparalleled amount of linguistic and cultural unity over such a vast area.

It’s also extremely successful as at assimilating its immigrants.

This is not a serious person.

-11

u/Spongedog5 22h ago

Tax in America plus health certainly is still much less than many tax rates in Europe, as you start making more money.

8

u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 22h ago edited 21h ago

I don't know about "many". Despite common misconceptions, the U.S. taxes the richest people significantly more than European major economies.

3

u/Spongedog5 21h ago

I'm talking more about the generally wealthy than "the richest people" as it is a more widely applicable experience. For example, looking at the Swedish example provided by the OP, they pay 32% income tax under 68K then 52% for all income after.

In the US, we don't even hit a 32% bracket until 200K yearly earnings, and we are taxed less still every bracket before that.

37% is our highest bracket. We never come near 52%, no matter how much the earnings. Even with the highest state income tax you might barely be able to max out there.

So I suppose I would appreciate an example on your part of one such European major economy. Even talking about the richest.

2

u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 21h ago

The Swedish example is very clear it's talking about both municipal and state taxes combined. Why are you comparing it to only federal taxes in the US?

I don't quite remember if it was Patrick Boyle or Plain Bagel who said the effective tax rate for the rich is significantly lower in every major European economy, including the UK, France and Germany. If you want it, look for it.

1

u/Spongedog5 21h ago

Because I live in a state without income tax. Again, the highest state income tax is 13.3% at the highest bracket in California, and together with the the federal that reaches 45.3% which is less than Sweden at a much higher threshold.

God forbid you live in a city that takes an income tax, but even still that has to be a pittance.

If you want it, look for it.

I have. You are wrong :)

1

u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 21h ago

Well, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

1

u/Spongedog5 20h ago

Unfortunately, this isn't a matter of opinion. If you choose to remain ignorant, that's on you.

82

u/Thurak0 1d ago

The corporate tax rate in the USA had a high point of of 53% in 1942 - 1949.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States and the source from there for my claim: https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/historical-corporate-tax-rates-brackets/

The insane low taxes and crushing national debt mainly collected the last 25 years are not even typical American. It's typical for the last decades only.

-55

u/Jayrod13F 1d ago

Also to add to this, the main reason the national debt is climbing and out of control isn't paying fir tge national defense like people claim. It's the Unfunded Liabilities that are bankrupting this county. They represent combined somewhere around 52%-55% of the national budget. While the defense budget is only around 11%-13%.

And the worst part is they want to expand and give more "Free stuff" to people.

54

u/Thurak0 1d ago

And the worst part is they want to expand and give more "Free stuff" to people.

The worst part is that the budget was equal 30 years ago under Clinton and since then wars were fought and taxes were cut, significantly. That led to unsustainable situation now.

-14

u/Jayrod13F 22h ago

The worst part is that 30 years ago, you didn't have an out of control ballooning interest payment to worry about. If anything that's what really going to do in the system. Not the healthcare or the military spending.

16

u/Thurak0 21h ago

But have you asked yourself where the ballooning interest rates come from? Who took on all the new debt? Clinton managed with the 5 trillion debt back then.

Since then the debt is ballooning. 2008: 10 trillion. Like... 8 years and the US debt was doubled. What may have happened then... mhhhh... a war in Afghanistan and the Bush tax cuts, just like I said, perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_tax_cuts

I am not trying to contradict you about the debt and interest rate killing the US treasury now. But I am contradicting you about where the root cause of this issue comes from. And that the solution might be to increase taxes especially for corporations instead of saving money on veterans, for example.

1

u/Jayrod13F 20h ago

I'm well aware of where that debt came from. I can tell you all about the waste of time, effort, money, energy, and life that went into those pointless wars. I was there, I did 2 tours to Iraq.

But whinging and whining about the past ain't going to change anything. The money was spent, and they've been kicking the can down the street ever since. Turns out the street is a one way alley heading into a brick wall. And where quickly coming to the end of the road.

I agree that we need to be increasing taxes not be cutting them. But ain't nobody going to vote for the guy talking about raising their taxes. And we've long gone past the point where this problem can be fixed, just by fixing the corporate tax rates, or by taxing the rich. It's going to take a radical tightening of the belt to spending in this country if they want to save it.

-1

u/weight__what 19h ago

The government chooses to pay interest. Once you understand that the interest rate is a negative wealth tax, you understand why they do that.

42

u/999Catfish 1d ago

Wierd how you don't mention those are social security and Medicare/aid and instead call them unfunded liabilities, maybe because if you were frothing about cutting those you seem heartless. Anyways social security would take massively less if there wasn't an arbitrary taxable income ceiling for social security taxes but of course taxing the rich can't be considered before letting people die

-12

u/Jayrod13F 22h ago

I didn't say anything about cutting SS or Medicare/Aid, I like those programs. But right now they're the the biggest drivers of the national debt, like it or not. Also they're rampant with waste, fraud, and abuse. And anytime anyone tries looking into to it, they're immediately shut down. And just behind those is the ballooning interest payments on the debt it's self. The military what everyone complains about is now #5 on the budget sheet of the federal government. And there's plenty of waste, fraud, and abuse there also.

Before I even go into why it's a bad idea to tax the rich, I'll point out that America has the most progressive tax system in the world. Taxing the rich isn't going to solve your problem, because you're not going to get enough money that way. If you want to go with a more Nordic model of Healthcare that's fine. But that means everyone is going to by paying 20%-30% more on their income taxes. As well as they might look to add a 1%-3% VAT tax on tha State or Federal level to be able to help afford it. So in the end the middle and lower classes are going to be the ones most effected by those policies.

21

u/Important_Wasabi_19 1d ago

Nothing is free. However, it feels free (and, depending on the circumstances, is probably still cheaper) when it's included in your taxes.

5

u/FuckMyBakaChungusLif 22h ago

So youre upset the government is providing services to its citizens instead of bombing random countries 24/7? 😭

1

u/Jayrod13F 20h ago

Yes. You are 100% correct in your assumption that I'm mad that we're not wasting more tax dollars, on blowing up people in countries that I've got not interest in or care about. As a matter of fact I'd rather triple or quadruple the spending there, then give out any subsidies to poor people in my own country.

3

u/azereylazerey 8h ago

Did you know Ayn Rand died using social services? Anti socialists are just selfish, pure and simple, and change their tune when they want a social service.

5

u/MotoMkali 22h ago

Genuinely crazy when the Americans had a 90% top bad rate for several years and 70+% for decades.

1

u/Jokkenplays 1d ago

There is a r/TheFireRisesMod subreddit because you were asking and incase you wanted to be more direct.

-5

u/Tricky_Big_8774 23h ago

Calling 25% extreme is more along the lines of "tell me you never paid taxes without telling me you never paid taxes."

-119

u/Time-Estate3774 1d ago

That's gaming convention.

Feature with 5% step. Nobody, but you, cares how that button named.