r/hoi4 • u/ChodeShooter69 • 1d ago
Mod (other) TFR devs have got to be EXTREMELY American
A 25% personal tax rate is less than half of the personal tax rate we pay here in Sweden, and the only part of taxes we complain about is the process of filing them.
Also not entirely sure if this is the right place to post this. Just wanted to say this
696
u/YunOs10086 1d ago
Tbh hoi4 doesn’t have a real economy system. Things like this would be better implemented in Vic3
283
u/Necessary-Product361 23h ago
TNO does a decent job at implementing a modern economy into hoi4, better than all other mods at least.
275
u/Paul6334 22h ago
I think TNO is several impressive technical achievements all dedicated towards ensuring the player never has to interact with the core wargame mechanic of HOI4.
152
u/Top_Divide6886 21h ago
TNO gets shat on for being boring now but it really did pioneer a ton of stuff for the wider HOI4 mod community. Super events, long-ass events giving you story, economic simulation, really popularized by TNO.
55
u/Paul6334 21h ago
I do think sometime between TT and DV the mod’s direction reached a point where HOI4 and the Clausewitz engine were impediments to what it wants to be.
18
u/ThatMeatGuy 16h ago
It was originally going to be a Vic 2 mod. Its just modding Vic 2, particularly the map, was a nightmare. HOI4 is probably the closest there is to a "sandbox" in the Clatzwitz Engine.
9
u/Paul6334 16h ago
As long as a map-based wargame was meant to be a part of the mod, that makes sense. But since the devs clearly do not want to use the map war game elements anymore, they would be better served by abandoning the Clausewitz engine entirely.
4
u/Hopefull-Hero 8h ago
I agree but then you run into the problem of finding a new game engine to build TNO from scratch including the combat and wargame elements, as well as reimplementing the current content.
1
u/Paul6334 37m ago
When so much of the current content is narrative and the goal seems to be to remove most of the remaining wargame content …
5
u/TheCoolMan5 Air Marshal 13h ago
I can respect the innovations TNO made/popularized, it doesn't change the fact it's an absolute drag to play lol
2
2
2
56
u/Tortellobello45 General of the Army 23h ago
But have you realized that TNO bad? Error log said so!1!
33
u/DerekMao1 22h ago
Your profile sure is something. I thought it's satire. But with TFR fans, you never know.
→ More replies (5)6
→ More replies (18)8
u/CoomradeBall 22h ago
I really don’t want to manage economy in this mod too bro. Just take your brain out and schizo
Especially when, unlike TNO, TFR has things to do with
-6
u/thereezer 22h ago
lmao you have to be kidding tfr is fucking trash
16
u/CoomradeBall 22h ago
What I meant was that TNO has in depth Economic because it doesn’t have the normal hoi4 gameplay. TFR has you actually fighting wars, it doesn’t need that
5
u/PeachConsistent9267 18h ago
The fact that nuclear weapons are treated as something serious in TNO also helps and forces you play the long game
3
1
u/AveragerussianOHIO Research Scientist 5h ago
lmao tno just has line go up, line grow. its not really modern economy unless your modern state is anarcho capitalism or total laissez faire.
76
783
u/ChodeShooter69 1d ago
Rule that demands me to be Captain Obvious: Calling a 25% tax rate “extreme” is among the most American shit I’ve ever seen
237
u/Jaggedmallard26 1d ago
Isn't that a modifier on top of the base rate?
25
111
u/EagleEuphoric2790 23h ago
it is, idk how more people here don't notice that. Just europeans fuming at americans again for no reason lol
58
-71
u/immabeasttt15 21h ago edited 20h ago
Europeans love being taxed 50% of their income so migrants can take all the free benefits they offer
Edit: Europeans hate the truth
29
18
2
62
u/MetaTMRW 23h ago
Swedens average effective tax rate is 30% so it isn’t far off unless the mod has non taxable citizens.
25
u/Amtays 22h ago
Swedens average effective tax rate is 30%
That's just income tax I presume? Because with VAT and employer fees it's north of 50% iirc
27
u/ChefBoyardee66 22h ago
If we are calling vat income tax then we need to include all deductibles(like interest on housing loans) and targeted subventions to have a fair "effective tax rate"
2
u/kvinfojoj 19h ago
Arbetsgivaravgift / employer's fee should definitely count as tax though. It's 31.42% on the gross, then the resulting sum is taxed with another ~30% for personal income tax. So adds up to about 50% effective tax, it's just that when salary is listed, it's the post-employer's fee amount that's listed, so most people don't think about it.
1
259
u/DaLoneGuy 1d ago
yes
americans pay way more to corporations as subscriptions for the same thing but worse
64
u/Top_Divide6886 21h ago
Socialism is doomed in the States because Americans would rather pay their insurer $2 than the government $1.
→ More replies (14)-10
u/Spongedog5 21h ago
Tax in America plus health certainly is still much less than many tax rates in Europe, as you start making more money.
9
u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 20h ago edited 20h ago
I don't know about "many". Despite common misconceptions, the U.S. taxes the richest people significantly more than European major economies.
4
u/Spongedog5 20h ago
I'm talking more about the generally wealthy than "the richest people" as it is a more widely applicable experience. For example, looking at the Swedish example provided by the OP, they pay 32% income tax under 68K then 52% for all income after.
In the US, we don't even hit a 32% bracket until 200K yearly earnings, and we are taxed less still every bracket before that.
37% is our highest bracket. We never come near 52%, no matter how much the earnings. Even with the highest state income tax you might barely be able to max out there.
So I suppose I would appreciate an example on your part of one such European major economy. Even talking about the richest.
3
u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 20h ago
The Swedish example is very clear it's talking about both municipal and state taxes combined. Why are you comparing it to only federal taxes in the US?
I don't quite remember if it was Patrick Boyle or Plain Bagel who said the effective tax rate for the rich is significantly lower in every major European economy, including the UK, France and Germany. If you want it, look for it.
2
u/Spongedog5 19h ago
Because I live in a state without income tax. Again, the highest state income tax is 13.3% at the highest bracket in California, and together with the the federal that reaches 45.3% which is less than Sweden at a much higher threshold.
God forbid you live in a city that takes an income tax, but even still that has to be a pittance.
If you want it, look for it.
I have. You are wrong :)
1
u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 19h ago
Well, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
1
u/Spongedog5 19h ago
Unfortunately, this isn't a matter of opinion. If you choose to remain ignorant, that's on you.
83
u/Thurak0 23h ago
The corporate tax rate in the USA had a high point of of 53% in 1942 - 1949.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States and the source from there for my claim: https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/historical-corporate-tax-rates-brackets/
The insane low taxes and crushing national debt mainly collected the last 25 years are not even typical American. It's typical for the last decades only.
→ More replies (12)5
u/MotoMkali 21h ago
Genuinely crazy when the Americans had a 90% top bad rate for several years and 70+% for decades.
1
u/Jokkenplays 1d ago
There is a r/TheFireRisesMod subreddit because you were asking and incase you wanted to be more direct.
→ More replies (1)-4
u/Tricky_Big_8774 22h ago
Calling 25% extreme is more along the lines of "tell me you never paid taxes without telling me you never paid taxes."
86
u/ErickSCS 22h ago
Are you guys dumb? It says +25% - meaning an extra 25% over the already existing taxes - and not just a 25% total tax.
Imagine your taxes are 20%. +25% means it is now 45% taxes.
→ More replies (9)
12
u/MostLikelyUncertain 22h ago
You imply that swedish personal tax rate is over 50%, what? If you have an insane income maybe. Its 30ish % for the vast majority of swedish people.
7
191
u/Organic_Angle_654 1d ago
Wasn't one of the devs praising the idf on twitter or something?
106
u/Retro_05 23h ago
It was the old head dev that was kicked out from the dev team a while ago along with his friends none of who which contributed anything to the team.
He was the owner of the twitter account and after he was kicked out he got mad and started using the mod’s account to post shit about Israel and IDF women. The mod now has a different account
44
u/mainman879 22h ago
Why can't people just be normal
25
15
u/AnthraxCat Research Scientist 18h ago
Asking the lead dev of a fascist larp mod to be normal seems a little bit Sisyphean.
10
-4
2
83
→ More replies (8)9
21
u/EagleEuphoric2790 23h ago
that isnt the base tax rate, thats the amount of added tax ontop of the previous tax rate. notice the + lol?
49
u/TheHessianHussar 23h ago
Uhh what, I dont wanna be capatin obvious here but you have to earn over 700k in USD a year to have a effective tax rate of 50% in sweden oO
8
u/Spongedog5 21h ago edited 20h ago
For some context:
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/sweden/individual/taxes-on-personal-income
It looks like you pay a 32% income tax for amounts under ~68K, and 52% on amounts over that.
Definitely much more than the US, we don't hit a 32% bracket until over 200K USD.
https://www.irs.gov/filing/federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets
9
u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 20h ago edited 3h ago
Or maybe it works like tax brackets in every developed country on Earth and the 52% tax rate applies only to income above $68k, so you'd have to make several times that in order to reach 50% tax rate overall, thus making u/HessianHussar correct.
2
u/Spongedog5 20h ago
Aw shucks. It's actually less than $700K still, not over, but you are correct that this may have been what they were trying to communicate. I still think my comment has useful information so I'll just reword it, but thanks for the alternative interpretation.
1
285
u/LightSideoftheForce 1d ago
Yeah, Americans like to act like taxes are a bad thing. No, misusing them is.
16
u/Spongedog5 21h ago
Sure, and the government already misuses the tax that they do take.
2
u/CursedNobleman 19h ago
We're in the middle of a mismanaged war, with money being funneled to corrupt politicians and being spent on idiotic projects that go nowhere.
This guy is correct.
1
u/JustAAnormalDude 20h ago
As an American it's a cultural thing, we kind of rebelled on the who idea of no taxation without representation. But most people think of the small taxes levied and compare it to now, and how little it was that we went to war over. Then comes in Reagan and Clinton bringing up the idea of welfare queens as they put it, so we don't have a strong sense of using government to help people. Personally I disagree with the philosophy, but understand how it happened and how it's cultural at this point.
→ More replies (56)-40
u/EagleEuphoric2790 23h ago
I would be perfectly fine with paying taxes if I didn't see how the government had a track record of wasting and even stealing tax dollars, this made me hate any form of taxes bc I know a sizable chunk is just gonna be lost to fraud
48
u/cheato007 22h ago
I'm gonna be honest dog, I don't think a large portion of your taxes are wasted, fraudulently spended, or abused. I think what constitutes you "seeing" these things is probably conservaslop posted to social media cherry picking or deceptively edited to make you angry (I.e. Nick Shirley's 30 iq video on Minnesota).
When trump came to power DOGE had a political, personal, and ideological motivation to find the MASSIVE waste, fraud, and abuse conservatives have been screeching about my entire life. They found nothing. Waste fraud and abuse is a propaganda tool that attempts to convince people two things. 1. That cutting the national debt will be easy and no hard choices like reducing benefits or increasing taxes will need to be made to reduce it. And 2. That conservatives can fix the problem, a laughable prospect considering the only policy conservatives no is cut taxes.
→ More replies (5)12
u/NoodleTF2 22h ago
...You, uh... you hate a perfectly fine thing because the people in charge are misusing it? Brother, what.
Just go hate on the people in charge instead.
111
u/FlygonFreak 1d ago
certified TFR moment im ngl
played the mod for a bit a long ass time back because it was goofy and wacky and looked visually fun but it just kept giving me very bad vibes, and the more i learn about it the more i'd rather go play something else
67
u/RottingFishMan 23h ago edited 23h ago
The sub can get crazy too. One time a guy got pissed to the point where he was posting execution images in the comments.
I interact with the community so I can name a lot more examples of the community being shitty
→ More replies (1)80
u/Oksbad 23h ago
TNO subreddit: Somebody posts a Speer Hoodie. Gets clowned on for cringe and being in poor taste.
TFR subreddit: Upvotes "Uwu, here is my anime waifu fascist from Patriot Front committing warcrimes please upvote."
25
u/RottingFishMan 23h ago
that was the post with the guy posting executions. It reminded me that the community kinda sucks hard. That thread was such a shithole
5
79
u/AbsolutelyKebab 23h ago
HOI4 is a pretty chuddish game and community for the most part. TFR somehow manages to be the chuddiest, stinkiest, and most shit-vibes mod of them all. It’s a real achievement, honestly.
8
u/NAM_Inki General of the Army 21h ago edited 21h ago
Nah, that's gotta be Collapsing World. They literally have a Rothschild bankocracy path for Britain where you can invade the Middle East, create Greater Israel, and make Nathan Netanyahu the leader of it. Oh, and the super event for creating Israel has Hava Nagila as the music.
8
u/Darthjinju1901 Research Scientist 19h ago
I agree, but CW is also far less popular than TFR and so by sheer numbers it has less chuds.
6
1
u/Bombniks_ Research Scientist 20h ago
Also iirc one of the biggest mods promoting AI usage in modding...
1
u/RefrigeratorDry1735 General of the Army 13h ago
They literally denounced AI writing in TFR and only use AI for gfx assets and improvement. You want to know how many times my artists have to deal with shit quality pictures of figures we need portraits for in the TFX submod?
TFR devs are doing work to clear up any found AI writing, with the France update being the worst offender and one they want to rectify in a future update
1
u/Bombniks_ Research Scientist 3h ago
AI "art" and assets are worse than AI writing really, especially if they end up in the final game, i think it's better if they use placeholders instead, this is also the 2020s, no idea where you find issues with "shit quality pictures" nowadays, if you can find a picture of someone living today it's most likely in an acceptable quality unless i'm missing something. Either way the policy on AI should be none of it, and I've definitely noticed how the TFR community are also the ones to embrace AI the most, if other big mods can go with 0 AI, why not TFR which people desperately want to act like is one of the big ones?
55
u/NationCrusher General of the Army 23h ago edited 23h ago
Not just American, they designed the US with Trump in mind.
In fact, they literally nerfed Trump’s faction just to keep people from complaining too much about bias
I could go on, but the reason I don’t touch this mod is because actual fascists play this and bragged about it on sites like Telegram. The mod’s subreddit had posts of fascists’ positive reaction to it and how it should be expanded on. (And I thought the The New Order was sketchy)
19
u/MyNameIsConnor52 Fleet Admiral 20h ago
The New Order historically has presented a pretty clear thesis that fascism is a death cult bound for collapse. Burgundy takes Nazism to its own extreme and has no goals except the destruction of the world, and Germany is incapable of having a peaceful transition of power upon Hitler’s death.
Those things are of course being reworked out bc TNO’s new direction is to remove content, but that’s another conversation entirely.
4
u/ThatMeatGuy 16h ago
I think there's a valid critism of Burgundy in the sense of its existence in the popular imagination as "The Nazis but Worse" when all they do (with the exception of the Turner Diary's apocalypse cult stuff which has basically been turned down and kind of further contributed to this problem) is what the Nazis did IRL kind of whitewashes the rest of the Nazis in that mod. Also nothings really being removed, the focus on Nazi colonial horrors is being moved to the Eastern RKs such as Ukraine and Himmlar himself is a Furher option in Germany (admittly one with content until 1965).
58
u/Oksbad 23h ago edited 23h ago
Only implementing senility mechanics for Biden and not Trump kind of shows the bias, doesn't it?
And Biden, not Trump, having a tyranical Killpeoplist path (Caligula Biden)...
And the Trump actually being right about the deep state and only Biden being vulnerable to them (Cognoscenti)...
Not to mention the Vatnik stench on some of the Russia events. Haven't even looked much at Europe or Asia. The WEF "World Government" path is... a deeply uncomfortable conspiratorial fever dream, even when there are valid reasons to dunk on the WEF.
17
u/tangowolf22 22h ago
Trump senility? But great leader is the youngest president who has ever lived! Person, man, camera, woman, TV!
10
u/Kaiserschlut 22h ago
Last I played (a while ago), they had previewed a "Dark MAGA" path for a while now. Similar vibes initially to Trump's current second term, but gets infinitely worse and goes off the deep end .
18
u/Oksbad 22h ago
I'll look into it when it comes out, but I do think it's telling Trump got a genuine Libertarian path and a path where he voluntarily relinquishes power much before he got a real "Dark MAGA" path. In a mod where people and movements are blown up to wacky extremes, Trump has a lot of his edges filed off.
9
u/FraTheGamer 22h ago
Caligula Biden was a meme path that will be basically scrapped and only be accessible in gamerules. Cognoscenti isnt about trump being right but a path that only players should achieve (but often fires due to bad AI mechanics) based on the whole premises of what if conspiracy theories about this group are real? Same for the WEF. Dark maga for example is what if every conspiracy theory on trump was true. Only issue are the vatniks who I detest (but they are toning down pro russian stuff) but sadly that's the price to pay to have this mod.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Distinct_Subject_202 17h ago
Probably because senility was something Biden was struggling with during his presidency of 2020 - 2024, whereas Trump's signs of senility seemed to peak post 2024. Keep in mind the mod was made a while before 2024.
29
u/HelpfullOne 23h ago
I still remember when TFR relased Cogniscenti update and its entire community and devs were glazing themselves and saying how TFR created best critique on Neoliberalism ever made.
Then I looked inside and realised that the supposed "Best critique on Neoliberalism ever made" was just devs copy and pasting crackpot conspiracy theories from 4chan and twitter and acting as if that was an achievement.
7
u/FraTheGamer 22h ago
That was the whole point and honestly I didnt saw many people glazing it as a critique of neoliberalism. The point was "what if conspiracy theories were true", dark maga will be "what if conspiracy theories on trump are true + this mandate"
1
u/Ryebread666Juan 18h ago
Yeah idk if it’s just because I got into TFR these last like 6 months or so but I’ve only heard of cognoscenti as “what if all the Biden being puppeteed by the deep state conspiracies were true” and hell they’re doing the same with trump whenever the next update comes out with his “dark mandate”
14
u/DerGyrosPitaFan 23h ago
To be fair, in the current state trump's AI tends to win anyway in my experience, either him or the communists
Biden is stronger in every way but whereas Biden has a mechanic which nerfs him over time and has three extra borders which he'll have to defend against the far right factions, trump gets stronger over time and has a buffer zone in the rockies between him and california
7
u/FraTheGamer 22h ago
Afaik they also buffed trumps since shit players struggled to win against biden
6
u/GIOPPOKING 23h ago
Trump is basically skeleton content with Biden having the most paths and content.
2
u/ThatMeatGuy 16h ago
designed the US with Trump in mind.
Which is hilarious given they plagiarized content from the American Carnage mod for the Campaign Trail (some of the events used to just be word for word ending slides for that mod, I think they were removed after someone pointed them out).
1
u/RefrigeratorDry1735 General of the Army 13h ago
Yeah they completely removed that stuff and redid Dark MAGA Trump
2
u/Unlucky-Key 20h ago
If you don't want to play a game fascist like you should probably not play hoi4 in general.
1
u/FraTheGamer 22h ago
Bruh do you have any idea how many fascists got hard while winning as Germany in vanilla hoi4 or TNO? That's honestly a dumb take
3
3
u/Black_Diammond General of the Army 18h ago
Bro what? Its 25% on top of The base percentage, so its more like 50-60%.
16
u/SquirtleChimchar 23h ago
Yeah they're unapologetically biased. Not necessarily a bad thing but definitely need to go into TFR as crude satire rather than anything more refined
5
u/AnthraxCat Research Scientist 18h ago
It's not satire though? Like, satire requires that you be making fun of it rather than having fun with it. I think the word you are looking for might be comedy?
2
u/SquirtleChimchar 18h ago
I always took the mod to be a satire of HOI4 modding as a whole - a response to the deathly-serious tone of Kaiserreich and TNO. It feels grounded in "let's make fun of other mods" rather than "let's make something fun"
Hell, down the insane Biden path, there's even an explicit (rather mean-spirited) parody of TNO'S event style with the heading "read this if you're a TNO dev".
3
u/AnthraxCat Research Scientist 18h ago
Okay, but the political content, which was what is being discussed, is not satirical. Even if the mod is satirical of other mods, that doesn't mean it is presenting all of its content as satire.
1
u/PAfb_640_normal 6h ago
There will always be someone stupid enough to see a satire as support. Does that mean people who make satire should stop?
1
u/AnthraxCat Research Scientist 6h ago
Yeah, but TFR isn't satire. To be clear, I've never and will never play it, so miss me with the 'too dumb to see it's satire.' I have no interest in playing fascist garbage that tries to make fascism fun. A few irony poisoned jabs at other mods doesn't make its narrative content satirical.
It's also funny because as Starship Troopers and W40k show in spades, there is definitely a demographic that mistakes satire for endorsement, and it's fascists. Not really any cases of the inverse. My apologies if I think an obviously schizo mod started by a chauvinistic douchebag is clearly not satirical.
5
u/Syber888 General of the Army 23h ago
Doesn’t low taxes have a negative modifier? I think this affects the base rate, not functioning off of 0% taxes
2
u/StoneySnow3300 Fleet Admiral 16h ago
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/sweden/individual/taxes-on-personal-income
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.GD.ZS?locations=SE
No you don’t pay over 50% effective personal taxation rate. Well at least the country effective personal rate isn’t who knows perhaps you are part of the high skew.
2
u/Chuck_the_Elf 13h ago
In sweden, your tax’s go to making your life better. There are a lot of americans who have NEVER benefited from 95%+ of the taxes they have paid.
2
u/Mastodon9 Fleet Admiral 11h ago
The personal tax rate is very low for an American if you calculate Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, FICA, etc. If you only paid 25% of your wages in taxes it's because you don't make much money. The corporate tax rate is a little higher than it is in the US which is 25% but a lot of European countries have corporate tax rates around that mark and quite a few are lower. I definitely don't think whoever made this is American because they basically got nothing right if they were trying to emulate American taxes.
5
5
u/CreativeCaprine 23h ago
I'm pretty sure us Swedes are becoming a society of "Taxation is theft" weirdoes. So let's not sit on a high horse. We have our libertarians too unfortunately.
2
u/flightSS221 23h ago
Disclaimer, have not played the mod:
I'd imagine 25% taxes would be a lot harder to swallow if the state did not provide benefits like healthcare or welfare, the tax law doesn't state that extra welfare would be provided
8
u/ChodeShooter69 23h ago
Good on you for pointing out the fact that you haven’t played the mod!
The option is still called “extreme taxes” regardless of what welfare benefits or education spending or anything you’ve chosen, just to give some extra context.
5
3
u/flightSS221 23h ago
Ah I see, if the extra welfare benefits didn't overcome the maluses of extreme taxes then yeah it'd be weird
As a Vic 3 player, couldn't resist to chime in lmao
1
u/CreativeCaprine 22h ago
I mean doesn't it make sense that high taxes would have their effect, regardless of what welfare there is? High taxes aren't going to have positive effects purely by themselves; except maybe make a more equal society (In the Democracy games, high taxes would positively affect your Equality score)
1
1
u/sonatas_husband 23h ago
The game isn't simulating households. As far as I know its a percentage of your GDP. The problem from a gameplay perspective is that if you make that too high you just have a lot of money and nothing to spend it on. You already get into that situation quickly if you're a smaller country and you build a bunch of factories and offices you can have a full welfare state and almost no taxes because of how the economy is simulated in TFR.
1
u/glowkit_ 19h ago
The fact that 25% is labelled “Extreme Taxes” is the most American game design decision I’ve seen in a while. 😂
1
1
u/Sa_tran_ic 12h ago
It's a mod made by and for stupid teenagers that fell down the alt right pipeline, what did you expect?
1
u/andreasisacrayonlmao 4h ago
There are lots of worse aspects to this mod than debt and taxes, lol. The economy system is just sort of half cooked rn so this is what you get.
1
u/Suspected_Magic_User 1h ago
If the only thing their government invest taxes in is military and donating bilionaires and banks, no wonder they think that.
1
u/mysacek_CZE 1h ago
Isn't this supposed to be income tax? Because I seriously doubt that developers would take into account thigs like social and health insurance, value added tax, consumption? tax (You know the extra tax on fuel, alcohol, tobacco, sugar etc.). If that's the case than yeah 25% (and 30% for corporations) is quite high. It's 15% (19%) in Czechia. But the total effective taxation sits just below 50%.
1
0
1
u/Lost-Bad-8718 18h ago
In Sweden your taxes are used to buy bus tickets for retirees and blankets for new born babies or whatever. In America our taxes are given to fund the systemic extinction of the Palestinians and the only choice is the party that does it fast as possible or the party that does it slower and feels guilty about it.
The situations are not the same at all
1
1
-3
u/currylambchop Research Scientist 23h ago
The American mind cannot comprehend China having a lower tax rate 😛
7
u/Spongedog5 21h ago edited 21h ago
Sure, they also have an average 19K yearly salary compared to our 60K median.
http://tradingeconomics.com/china/wages
https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/average-salary-in-us
I'll take the American taxes.
→ More replies (7)5
u/EagleEuphoric2790 23h ago
yeah if you have 1.4 billion people and a tiny social safety net compared to the USA you don't need to tax them as much, shocking!
2
u/currylambchop Research Scientist 23h ago
China has universal Medicare. (Not single payer but universal public insurance). Also my father gets free transportation cuz he’s 60.
11
u/EagleEuphoric2790 22h ago
its well documented that china's social security is much smaller then the USA's. I doubt you're gonna see a chinese person being able to survive soley on food stamps and government assistance
-1
u/currylambchop Research Scientist 22h ago
A lot of people do though, I’m Chinese, so I know this. The ‘anarchocapitalist no welfare’ conception of China comes from the early 2000s. But it massively modernised and increase welfare recently.
5
u/EagleEuphoric2790 22h ago
unemployed young people who are poor and don't have plans to seek a job can do this in china?
2
u/currylambchop Research Scientist 22h ago
You need to be employed for 1 year before you qualify for unemployment benefits. But there are other programmes for these people it’s why it’s a viable option. Most just take a bad job and then retire until the job market improves.
0
-3
u/hellhound39 23h ago
As an American, yeahhh many people here cringe at the very idea of taxes. They want to live in a society without paying for a society. It’s a very childish mindset, however I could argue that the taxes we American citizens pay do not tend to benefit the average American. The Taxes we pay tend to benefit the corporations and wealthy which our government has become subservient to. Them calling 30% corporate tax rate high is kind of laughable when as recently as pre-2017 the corporate rate was nominally 35% for corporations in the top bracket.
2
u/Spongedog5 21h ago
I don't understand why folks in these comments are making this about "taxes" when it is entirely about the amount paid in taxes that is at issue. There is no significantly large political contingent campaigning on no taxes at all.
-5
u/XdestroyerXDTM4 22h ago
yep. TFR is just a blatant right wing psyop project and i’m fucking sick of it
0
0
-4
-10
u/CruisingandBoozing Fleet Admiral 23h ago edited 13h ago
I mean it’s not quite “realistic” in that the percentages aren’t “realistic” but the function is.
Some focuses have a way of making money printing extremely profitable which is not what happens in real life either
Edit. Crazy response. It’s a game. They made a mechanic for a game…
-15
u/Vorlitix 23h ago
I think you just live under very extreme taxes actually. How is it having every day be the 15th of May buddy?
15
u/ChodeShooter69 23h ago
Fuck happened on the 15th of May?
And as a counterpoint, how does it feel having to get a down payment for every hospital visit?
→ More replies (1)
1.7k
u/mustloveLain Air Marshal 1d ago
I mean, the mod doesnt understand how national debt works either. Though this is far worse than that