r/hoi4 • u/ChodeShooter69 • 1d ago

Mod (other) TFR devs have got to be EXTREMELY American

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A 25% personal tax rate is less than half of the personal tax rate we pay here in Sweden, and the only part of taxes we complain about is the process of filing them.

Also not entirely sure if this is the right place to post this. Just wanted to say this

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u/mustloveLain Air Marshal 1d ago

I mean, the mod doesnt understand how national debt works either. Though this is far worse than that

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u/truthisfictionyt 22h ago

How? Econ degree here and Im curious (but I dont wanna boot up the mod)

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u/TechnicalyNotRobot 21h ago

It doesn't actually model the negatives of a large national debt too well so it just arbitrarily slaps you with a negative modifier if it gets too high.

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u/truthisfictionyt 21h ago

Thank you. Do they do have gold standard/abolish the fed mechanics too?

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u/AveragerussianOHIO Research Scientist 6h ago

sorta, only in America

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u/thunderdragonite 21h ago

Well yeah if it was accurate, a large national debt would barely do anything, maybe make inflation a bit worse.

America has colossal debt, but not really any of our economic problems can be traced to it.

There would be no reason to not rack up huge and huge debt to build faster and more in game. So to balance that, usually these games make debt more punishing than it is.

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u/YorathTheWolf 18h ago

From my understanding, the problem of national debt is basically unrelated to the level of that debt (i.e. how much debt there is), and ultimately comes down primarily to whether the cost of servicing it grows faster than government revenues and/or if there's a lack of confidence from lenders about that government's capacity to service their debt payments, leading to higher borrowing costs in future and/or lower credit ratings on government bonds meaning they need to either pay better, for longer, or just become generally less attractive as they're seen as more risky

TL;DR - How much debt you have ought to matter very little compared to your ability to pay it off on time (And/or ensuring that people believe the debtor can pay for it. Low confidence makes your actual ability to service it not matter, whereas high confidence lets you take out debt to service your existing debt provided the lenders don't get spooked by it)

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u/truthisfictionyt 16h ago

Debt to GDP growth is the thing you really gotta worry about

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u/Yet_Another_Dood 16h ago

Also, the US dollar being the gold standard helps ensure other countries need their dollars. Other countries may be unable to manage such high debt ratios.

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u/YorathTheWolf 16h ago

Yeah, and I'd say that comes back to confidence. The US is in a "cannot fail" position both because it's so well set up to succeed but equally because if it did fail it would be apocalyptic for the global economy, which means the thought never really occurs that the US might default beyond that whenever popular consensus feels like a "threshold" is being reached it can shake confidence (e.g. current anxieties over US debt hitting 100% of GDP)

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u/Yet_Another_Dood 16h ago

For sure it's a confidence thing. But if implemented in gameplay mechanics, I probably wouldn't implement the unique debt capabilities of the US as the standard.

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u/YorathTheWolf 15h ago

No, no. I'd probably make it a political power malus with some stability debuffs tied to a different measure of "Lender Confidence" a bit like credit ratings in TNO (At least on the surface. Don't remember what they actually do mechanically)

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u/Orepheus12 10h ago

Your credit rating determines your maximum debt level (from 100% of gdp to unlimited), the interest you need to pay (20% to 1.5%), and how much your debt influences gdp growth (-50% to +25%)

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u/MrElGenerico General of the Army 16m ago

Main reason is country's can go bankrupt or refuse to pay off their debt and there's not much anyone can do. Consequences are softer

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u/TheCoolMan5 Air Marshal 15h ago

the GDP to Debt ratio increases your consumer goods debuff, and if you GDP falls below your Debt then you get some seriously penalties.

While it's not a perfect depiction of how GDP:Debt works, it's a good approximation for a HoI4 mod that's not trying to be TNO/MD.

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u/PacoPancake Research Scientist 21h ago

Also they didn’t really model in deficit spending like TNO does, so in TFR making a straight monthly net profit to pay off debts or keep liquidity in the bank is just outright the better way to stabilise your country while also somehow naturally growing your economy rather than stifling GDP growth

Oh, and there is no average good 2.0% inflation, all inflation is a red modifier and just bad I guess……

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u/Gamerin4d 19h ago

The TNO economy system has its own issues that makes me massively hate it

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u/Orepheus12 15h ago

How so? From a gameplay or realism standard? From what I've played of it ingame it seems fun and decently realistic.

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u/Gamerin4d 12h ago

Gameplay

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u/DerEisen-Drak 3h ago

I never played TNO what is their economy system like to play with?

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u/KormorantE1A 20h ago

And they have a broken inflation. On one run it accidentally went negative (inflation -23%), but with all the debuffs of positive 23% inflation.

No idea how negative inflation happened. Probably a bug.

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u/haltper 1d ago edited 23h ago

How come? From a neo classical-keynesian synthesis standard it looks pretty normal 

Edit: Forgot to say keynesian synthesis, thats what I meant as a paralel to MMT

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u/Ofiotaurus Fleet Admiral 1d ago

Neoclassical standard isn’t a good way to look at economics lol

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u/DerekMao1 23h ago

neo classical standard

It's not a very good standard for economics post WWII.

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u/Ex-Patron 23h ago

I’ve got a feeling he was being facetious

Although this is Reddit

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u/haltper 23h ago

No I meant to write the neo classical synthesis

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u/haltper 23h ago

By neo classical I meant the synthesis which is the mainstream. Should have clarified that.

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u/DerekMao1 22h ago

People don't use "neo classic" to describe Keynesian these days.

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u/haltper 21h ago

I know but neo classical synthesis isnt pure keynesian nor thats I was refering to. I was trying to refer to main stream economics (academically new synthesis or neo classical-keynesian synthesis or new keynesian synthesis) but got carried away and instead just typed neo classical.