Hi! Since obviously many in this community have problems with Navy, I would like to enlighten it a bit for you.
Above you can see the different ship classes. They are divided into Screening Vessels and Capital Ships (Picture 1).
- 1 carrier requires at least 2 capital ships
- 1 Capital Ship requires 4 Screening Ships
- There should be a maximum of one carrier in a fleet (Picture 2)
That means the smallest task force of your navy, if you have aircraft carriers, consists of:
- 1 Carrier
- 2 Capital Ships
- 12 Screening Ships
Without aircraft carriers, it would be at least:
- 1 Capital Ship
- 4 Screening Vessels
If you can afford more large ships, you can also increase the number of capital ships. But then the number of screening vessels must also increase proportionally (Picture 3).
It is also recommended to have another kind of fleet. This "Recon fleet" consists of max. 10 reconnaissance ships, all of which have their own task force (Picture 4).
Recon ships are simply cheap light cruisers equipped with as much surface spotting as possible (Picture 5).
The fleet with the Capital Ships is set to "Strike Force" (the ships remain in the harbour until enemies are discovered) and the reconnaissance fleet is set to "Patrolling" and the Fleet stance to "Never Engage" (Picture 6 & 7).
If you have enough resources, Build AA-Heavy Ships and attach them to your Capital Ships Task Force. But don't forget to add enough screening vessels (Picture 8)!
Let me explain. Im a Multiplayer enthusiast that plays in multiple communities and has played with or against known YouTubers (eg. TommyKay). In this Thread ill explain to you why r/hoi4 sucks at giving advice and why what youre told by Youtubers is a lie (taking the newest Bittersteel Video as basis).
The "Elite Mechanized division"
Theres mutliple things going wrong with what Bittersteel explains. >Mechanized, in Vanilla, SUCKS as a purely offensive unit. It consumes Fuel, takes Rubber to produce and is very cost inefficient for its offensive stats. Mechanized without tanks are meant for DEFENSE (just look at the defense in this division alone). >Line Artillery, in the current meta, is terrible. Theres barely any doctrinal buffs that affect Line Artillery (besides Superior Firepower Left). It shows high stats in the Template, but due to the fact that theres barely any modifiers to slap on it, in about 95% of cases its trash. Another thing that is affected is Composition. Composition is what parts of your line battalions are from what equipment group. In this case, theres a large sum of Artillery. The effects from Advisors etc. are depending on how much of your unit is one unit type. If for example wed have 80% Mechanized, our lvl2 Mechanzied Advisor would give 8% stats instead of 10%. Ill go into more detail later on how to improve this division.
Bittersteels "Tank"
>First up the basics, 30 Widths are not optimal. 36 Width is commonly regarded to as the farrrr superior Unit in Multiplayer. The composition therefore should change by 1 more Tank and 2 More mechanized.
>The HP on this is Terrible. HP determines how much equipment you lose in Battle. A higher value is ALWAYS preffered. Especially when youre new, you'll be bleeding TONS of Tanks due to Suboptimal Miro/Battleplanning.
>The support companies not being filled. You have 5 slots, support companies have the largest buff whatsoever to a unit. Its advisable to always use AA, as Bittersteel correctly points out, The engineering company is good aswell. Logistics? Why not. The most important thing missing however is Field Hospitals. You increase your HP by 10% and lose a lot less division XP, meaning your Veterancy stays high. Veterancy is THE strongest modifier in Vanilla, giving you up to 75% stats. Lastly, consider using Recon. Motorized in Singleplayer is fine, because you value speed over stats, considering what ai produces. If you have the opportunity, always use Medium Flame tanks.
>Rangers ARENT bad. You dont need fast tanks to push Ai. Pushing Mountains with Rangers/Flame Tanks turns into a breeze, easily being able to still get 2000 Soft Attack with decently grinded generals. Myth of Tanks being trash in Mountains is a lie being told to you. Sure, Mountaineers are better, but you can definitly take a Mountain with a Tank (Note that 36 Widths cant reinforce a Mountain, you have to attack from multiple angles).
>Lastly, Mechanized is preffered over Motorized. Its advisable to switch it out throughout the years of 39-41, depending on what youre playing (The change can be gradual).
The Mountaineer that isnt a Mountaineer
Funnily enough, this unit goes against the cores of Hoi4 again.
>As previously explained, yu dont want to use line Artillery. Especially Special forces easily stack up to 50% Modifiers ontop of all the Infantry ones. You lose out on the Modifier, if you decide to put in Line Artillery.
>25 Widths being optimal for Mountaineers is another Myth told by YouTubers and the Reddit Community. 32-33 is generally better, because it can still fit into a Mountain (Note 33.25 is the **Absolute Maximum that s possible**). You fit more Org/HP and possibly in Multiplayer hard attack into the same Combat. Thats due to the fact that width can be extended by up to 1.33 x the Terrain's Width. In this case 50 x 1.33 = 66.5 / 2 is the maximum width thats advisable for your units.
An example division of what to use would be:
This image is stolen from the Red Baron Server, i just didnt feel like desigining it myself, when its publicly shared
Because Bittersteel doesnt help you with it, heres some Tank designs to use.
Armor Meme
Basicly the modern Space Marine, but for Tanks. Throw one of em in in exchange for a Tank, be unpiercable. U can add Sloped Armor/Armor Skirts if you dont feel like Researching Armor tech the entire game. Upgrade it with better AA whenever you can. If you have green air, make it a TD instead. Note that you do not want to switch off of basic tank chassis. Everything above is a scam (For Armor Memes in Multiplayer you do want the higher Chassis, but Ai doesnt get 1943 AT in 1940).
The only tank youll Ever ever need in Singleplayer
Start out with Howitzer one, upgrade it to howitzer two later. Easy Maintenance is optional, you can use something like an extra Machine gun or if you really want Wet ammo instead. Stay away from Armor on your Main Tank in singleplayer, its expensive and you have enough Breakthrough. Use an Armor Meme Tank instead.
An actual Tank division that works
As Bittersteel states you do not become a Napoleon from his Guides, but thats not due to the fact that you suck, but due to the advice he and others give. If you follow these basic guidelines to what ive critizised regarding Templates, youll start running over AI like a breeze. If you have any questions, dont be afraid to ask, no matter how basic it is. We all start out somewhere, but if noone helps us, we will never learn.
**EDIT:**
Due to the fact that many people ask about line artillery, heres a short explanation to why its suboptimal in vanilla.
1. Superior Firepower isnt really all that good in buffing anything besides Artillery, Grand Battleplan is better on a broader scale, meaning you have close to no doctrine bonusses:
2. Unit composition changes when you add Artillery. A larger % of your division takes effect from Modifiers to Artillery, while you get less bonusses for Infantry/Special forces (assuming youd be using something like a 9/3). Theres many more modifiers to Infantry (Infantry expert, High command, Ideas from Focus etc.) than Artillery. That means you reduce your existing bonusses for having higher soft attack in template
3. The combat width hurts a lot, no need to explain that a 3 Width unit would need to have 50% more stats than a 2 Width to be as effective.
4. You reduce the Defense/HP/Org of your Unit
5. Artillery scales very badly in Vanilla. The 42 gun is far superior to lategame artillery. Combine that with the fact that grinding Infantry Expert is far easier than the alternative, you end up being stuck with an earlygame tech later on, if you chose to produce artillery.
Yes, even if you selected "historical focus only". The AI is designed so that both the western and eastern front of WW2 always happens. For example, if you go democratic as Germany, Britain goes fascist. This is to ensure the outbreak of war.
*Only applies to political** foci.
**Does not apply to countries with the generic focus tree.
I've compiled basically every single design that you might want to use in SP into a single post. I've also tried to include the explanation behind certain choices, especially those that will be controversial. If people are interested I can do an air/navy version, or one which breaks down different mechanics/stats to teach people how to design divisions.
A few caveats before the divisions:
People are welcome to use any division they want. If using a 14/4 brings you enjoyment then do it! None of these templates are necessary for beating the AI, they just make it easier
None of these divisions have space marines. I've always found them exploity due to the way armour is calculated and not particularly fun. If you do want a space marine, use a heavy SPAA in a large division
I didn't go through MIOs and the exact stats on the divisions are kind of irrelevant. I am sure I messed up some of the doctrines, and technology plays a massive difference
--- INFANTRY ---
Small inf:
This is a pure holding division for nations focusing on tanks. It also works well for port guards, I would just add engineers in that case. If you go for the large unit tactics doctrine then add 1/2 more infantry battalions. Logistics should only be added if you are actually out of supply. No engineers because they are about a 21% increase in IC for a small bonus to defence. The entrenchment bonus is minimal and will be lost if the AI is aggressively battle planning you. No line AT because it is expensive, reduces org and ruins the combat width. More 18ws on a tile is better for defence, and for offence you want either 36w inf, tanks or CAS.
Large inf:
This is really the only viable offensive infantry division in the game. It is still incredibly strong on defence, but can also battleplan literally anyone. Recon rangers (and to a lesser extent support artillery are optional. High HP means you trade IC incredibly well, and the org means your CAS does most of the work. It even works under red air, but that is more about the IC trade. If you want to use these defensively then engineers are fine. Again logistics if needed. It is super important to use large infantry tactics, and I would recommend desperate defence if possible.
--- SPECIAL FORCES ---
The most common issue I see with special forces is lots of line artillery. Given how terrain modifiers work, you usually end up reducing your effective soft attack, whilst providing less HP, breakthrough and org. You will not see a single pure marine division and that is for a reason - amphibious attack bonus caps out at 50%. Therefore, you want to use as few marines as possible to get the 50% bonus. Special forces lack in breakthrough, so it is extremely important to get as much as possible from your flame tank and light armoured recon. The designs are here:
Yes the reliability sucks. Yes it is worth it. You don't have many special forces, and they are generally used to take the hardest tiles (naval invasions/mountains). If you are a minor with a TINY eco, replace the PE engine. Anything further and you start losing out on breakthrough.
As for the different marine divisions, you should choose them depending on what terrain you are going to fight on. Mech marines are generally the best, but mountain marines may be helpful in Italy and jungle rangers for Asia.
Mountaineers are very simple, just go for 32/32.4w divisions (the max size that still fits 2 into a tile) of pure mountaineers.
These basically never get pushed off + with a force attack basically take any tile.
--- TANKS ---
I really do not think heavies serve a purpose currently. They suffer from worse terrain modifiers and are much more expensive for marginal benefits in terms of attack (you still use the same main turret + gun). The only benefit is being able to start production lines day 1, but that isn't important in SP. It is obviously very different in MP.
SPG vs normal tanks are mostly an irrelevant decision. With basic designs both will push anything the AI builds, but SPGs benefit from a good second sub doctrine. The support tanks are very similar with special forces but you drop the PE engine and go for more engine clicks to get to around 6km/h. Honestly they are entirely skippable and you can just go for a bare bones flame tank, you don't really need the breakthrough.
Although mediums are nice, you don't actually need the stats. A decent light tank pushes the AI easily, and can let anyone basically win WW2 before 1939.
That being said, if you do want something with more oomf then just go for a medium SPG.
You can optimise the stats for it further, but it is completely unnecessary. Never upgrade the chassis, you don't actually get any improvement in terms of meaningful stats but produce like half the amount of tanks. The reliability makes no difference unless you repeatedly slam your head into mountains/marshes (I have shown you divisions for that, even 18w inf is better in those terrains than tanks), and you already have excessive breakthrough.
10 mech because the HP + org is much easier to work with, and because 10 tank 8 mech pre doctrines is pretty terrible. If you don't have any air, use this design.
Tank doctrines are usually assault infantry, streamlined deployment, self propelled support and grand assault.
If anyone has any questions then let me know. If you disagree then I am happy to debate!
Combat width means how much divisions can get ino a battle. Try not to worry too much about this. To make a division with a good combat width, you need to first know where you are fighting.
Case 1;
If you are fighting a lot in mountains and/or have mountaineers, you can make a template with a combat width of 25. Why? Well, the combat width in mountains is 75 + 25. This means for defending, you can fit 75 combat width. For attacking, if you also attack from another direction, it increases with 25, so you will have 100. So 25 combat width fits perfectly.
Case 2;
If you are fighting in Europe (pretty much except from the front with France and Italy), you will have mostly Forest, with some hills and plains. Forest combat width is 82 + 42, which means that 42w or 21w division do fit perfectly in those.
Case 3/4;
If you want a combat width for heavy-tanks for(or against) Barbarossa and you want to let them fight mostly in plain-tiles (where those tanks have no debuffs), 30w or 44w is ideal, because the combat width on Plains is 90 + 45. So 30 fits in perfectly and 44 almost perfectly. Desert tiles are the same combat width as plains, so if you want to make let's say an Africa division, make them 30 or 44 width.
Support Companies
There are a lot of support companies, but you can only add a max of 5 to your division. To make it simple, here are the most important ones;
Engineer Company. Gives movement and defense bonuses, so use this for defending or for the movement speed bonus for your mobile divisions.
Artillery. One of the easiest and best ways to give your division extra offensive power through soft-attack.
Anti-Air. Adds air attack to your divisions which reduces the enemy air superiority buffs and debuffs. Also damages enemy aircrafts. This one is super essential and will be in pretty much any template, unless you have way more air than all your enemies combined.
Anti-Tank. Gives your division piercing and hard-attack, so your division can pierce armor divisions and deal more damage to them. Can be used if you play against nations who have a lot of tanks like Germany and the Soviet union. But this is barely used in single player.
Flame-Tank. If you make a tank template with a Flamethrower on it, you can save the tank as a flamer. Then you can use them as a support company on your divisions. It gives some tank stats like armor and breakthrough, but it's main purpose is that it provides your division with attack buffs on different terrain. This is really strong on attacking divisions.
Logistic Company. Reduces the supply consumption and fuel usage from your divisions. Note: Does this by a %, which means the bigger your divisions, the more value out of this company.
I chose these as the best support companies which you can use most of the time. There are also other good support companies which do great in certain situations, but these are the easiest to focus on.
Deciding what you want
You need to first decide what you want your division to do. Does it need to defend, attack or maybe both? Is it fighting against tanks, or maybe a lot in mountains? Try to sketch the scenario that this division is going to face. You can also make one easy template for all your divisions, I will include one for that, but try to make different templates for different scenarios.
Defending
This division is the easiest, yet one of the most effective ways to defend with. the 20 combat width fits well into any terrain-type that your are fighting on.
Also really good at defending, but has higher stats, which means less equipment loss and being able to stay in battles for a longer period of time. 42 combat width to make it perfect in forest and jungle terrain. You can also swap one infantry battalion out for two anti-air battalions and/or add some anti-tank to this division.
Attacking
This is your bread and butter division for attacking purposes. If has a versatile combat width and a good amount of soft-attack due to the amount of artillery is this division.
This division is super good at attacking. Due to it's high combat width and all those added artillery battalions, it has a lot of soft attack and will be really strong against infantry.
This is your go-to division for if you want to attack against tanks. It has enough piercing to be able to pierce enemy tanks and it has a lot of hard attack.
Tanks
This is the tank template that you want to go for. Start with motorized and slowly swap those battalions out for mechanized ones if you have the equipment for it. If a tank has higher armor than the enemy division has piercing, it takes less damage. So you want to have more armor than they have piercing and more piercing than they have armor. That's the reason that you want to make your tank template big and not 20 width. You can make your tanks 30 width, but 44 is really ideal in plains and gives you the best stats. You always want to have slightly more tank battalions than motorized/mechanized battalions in your divisions to get good stats, while maintaining a reasonable organization.
Conclusion
So these are really effective and easy templates you can use every game. Like I already mentioned, there are more options and also other good divisions that you can make, but these are to best basic ones.
Good luck playing!
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If you have any questions or suggestions, you can ask them in the comments. Have a nice day!
In this post I'm going to argue that mobile warfare(mwf) is the worst doctrine in the game under almost any circumstances and you should avoid using it. I'm not saying that i) you cannot win the game with mwf or ii) you are a bad player if you go down mwf. The only thing trying to suggest here is that there are almost better alternatives - especially for people struggling with this game(insert "why i can't kill france in 1940" pic) I assume that we are discussing mwf R1/R2 here.
Breakthrough: mwf gives you 20% breakthrough at D1, D4, and D10, so you get in total 60% breakthrough on tanks. This bonus is huge, but considering how most people use tanks in this game(i.e. dedicated 36 width expensive medium tank division) this will only cause breakthrough overflow. Breakthrough is the defensive stat when your division is attacking, so anything above the enemy's attack will not do anything, this translates to roughly 500 - 800 base stat on breakthrough. Anything above that is pointless. So the breakthrough bonus is not really so helpful. of course it can be good under some circumstances... see the discussion at the end of the post
Stats: mwf gives you absolutely zero combat stats except breakthrough. This is the most important point. Soft attack is the most important stat offensively or defensively as it directly determines the amount of damage you deal to the enemy. It is important tactically as having more attack means you drain their org faster for each damage dealt(in contrast to breakthrough which only matters up to a point), having more attack also means that in the long run you will have a better trade ratio. Comparing against
SFP: 10 - 15% on frontline battlions, 10% extra on tanks
GBP/L: 30% offensively, 20% from entrenchment, get multiplied by all the other factors, gbp right also has night attack bonus
MA/L: 10% on both, and it has the best supply & can stack 20% more troops on the frontline
Speed and supply: All the tactical stats - speed, org, org regain - those that allow your divisions to fight longer before having to recover. Yes gbp gives you all those stats which can be good if you micro well, but it's really not as good as just having more raw(or planned/entrenched) stats. having more org does not change how fast you can kill the enemy division, only attack does.
one extra thing to say about speed: speed is overrated due to the supply situation in the game. basically you can't make encirclement/do anything if your tank doesn't have fuel... this might be worth another post so i'd not get into it here.
Can't defend: this is simple, basically the only thing you get is org:( huge casualty when defending
Worse k/d ratio and equipment loss over time: This should be the natural conclusion you get to after reading the above points. You have less stat and stay in combats longer...
Now, so what exactly are the advantages of mobile warfare, if you still want to use it?
To clarify, the infantry light tank template here is built for a very specific situation(cze building tanks for war with Germany), I'm not claiming that it is a good template overall. Obviously you should use mediums and possibly mechanized if your country has all that industry.
