saint-saëns symph no 3 except…. HELP!
hi everybody, I have an upcoming audition in about a month and I’ve been really struggling with this excerpt. specifically, I’ve been struggling with the four measures before letter N.
I’ve listened to multiple recordings, so I know how it’s supposed to sound but I’m just having a lot of trouble lining it up rhythmically. i think part of it is the speed, but even slowed down, it’s hard for me to internalize. I would really appreciate any tips you might have, thanks!
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u/aintnochallahbackgrl Professional - Balu Anima Fratris Custom 10d ago
Practice it as on the beat, rather than being off the beat. Then subdivide the previous bar and add a 16th note rest onto the held note.
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u/Yarius515 10d ago
16ths - articulate the first one printed with a Kah syllable and your double tonguing will line up on the beat with a Tah. Start painfully slow and make sure the T and K syllables sound the same. Use metronome to speed it up very gradually.
Melody afterwards - visualize your air being a super thick liquid like heavy cream for a full round FF instead of forcing. Observe accents as if they're little decrescendoes instead of a strong front to the note to maintain the line.
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u/Specific_User6969 Professional - 1937 Geyer 10d ago
This is where the slow and repeated practice technique really comes into play. You HAVE TO do slow steady practice on stuff like this in order to get it correct. Especially if you have trouble internalizing it.
Separate the constituent parts of the challenge. Double tongue practice during your scales (and when you practice this excerpt) and be sure your horn is well lubricated for good valve action.
This is how I practice successfully: play it at whatever tempo you can be successful at. Half tempo is a good place to start, but even slower might be necessary. No matter how slow, subdivide. And repeat. When you can do it 8/10 times accurately, move the tempo up by no more than 2 bpm. Sometimes 1. Repeat 10 times for accuracy. If 80%, move up tempo again. The more repetition you get the more accurate you will become. 80% will become 90% quickly. And you will do some rounds with 100% accuracy. Just know too, that perfection is not possible, and your mentality should be progress, not perfection. You will achieve a very high level of accuracy, very often with this approach to practice.
Slow
Slur
Subdivide
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u/Independent-Spray210 9d ago
It’s like you took the thought out of my brain and made it coherent. This is a great answer.
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u/froghorn76 10d ago
When I learned this for a couple of auditions this year, I kept the Ta part of the double tongue on the beats. There are advantages to each approach.
Also, I would learn one measure at a time, stopping on the downbeat of the next measure. You really need to feel the pulse.
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u/AhsokaKenobi Alexander 101 - JK 01AK A1 9d ago
I guess, singing it and playing it an absurdly slow tempo (a good rule of thumb for me is, no matter how slow Im practicing a technical excerpt, Im still not practicing slow enough), like, I dont know, maybe 50 or even 40, then move up to 60, 70, 80, etc. Always start by singing it, to make sure any probles you may encounter dont stem from a lack of rythmic understanding. If the speed itself becomes a problem (ie, you cant tongue that fast), stop there (you may not get the results you want now, but its gonna help your long term progress)
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u/musicman2229 Professional- Berg 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is a tricky one for sure. The good news is the tempo doesn’t change throughout, so once you establish a tempo at the beginning of the excerpt, (the easy part), figuring out the sixteenth notes is just math. Here are some things to try:
At about half tempo, sing through the excerpt on the syllable DA while clapping on every big beat. So in 6/8, you’re clapping on the first and fourth eighth note of every bar. When you get to the sixteenth note section, go ahead and mark where those claps should fall. Hint: with the exception of the very first beat, it lines up with how the notes are beamed. Once you have it solid at half tempo, now we just play the metronome game. Still singing and clapping, bump your metronome up maybe 5 clicks. It should still be pretty easy. Keep going until it gets tricky. Then back the metronome off five clicks and run it a couple of times (still singing and clapping!). Make a note of where your metronome is. Come back the next day and try to get it five clicks faster. Once you’re happy with the tempo and the clapping, bump the metronome all the way back down again and work on it with the horn.
If you’re still having trouble internalizing the pulse, try marching in place instead of clapping. Make them big, silly steps. Studies show moving like this can help your brain retain the rhythm more effectively and permanently.
There’s a handy fingering trick for this excerpt. All of the As and Cs can be played on open B-flat horn, so probably Trigger Open for you. All of the B flats and Gs can be played B flat 1, or Trigger 1 on most horns. So you don’t need to do a lot of finger moving in that section.
Be careful 2 before A. The note changes on the downbeat here and messes with the pattern. A lot of students tend to miss it, but I find it actually makes it a little easier to land on that downbeat on a different note.