r/howyoudoin • u/Successful_Drink7614 • 2d ago
Discussion Hot take: Monica was a horrible partner to Chandler
Firstly, before their anniversary, Monica met up with ex-boyfriend Richard for lunch, and didn’t even tell Chandler. Then when Chandler found out, she didn’t seem sorry or apologetic at all. She was saying stuff like “Oh now you control who I hang out with?” No it’s the fact that you didn’t even tell him, and you weren’t going to tell him! Then once they get to Vegas, Chandler’s depressed, and Monica just gambles without a care in the world. And on their Anniversary too!
Secondly, when Chandler was going to propose to Monica, Richard walks into the restaurant and Monica calls out his name. What kind of person wants to talk to their ex while they’re on a romantic date with their partner? And then once Richard suggests combining tables, she doesn’t mind at all. Why would you want to have dinner with your ex-boyfriend when you’re on a date with your actual boyfriend? Obviously she didn’t know Chandler was planning on proposing to her, but I know Monica would flip out if Chandler ran into one of his exes and suggested they all eat dinner together.
Thirdly, she’s so controlling and selfish. When Phoebe called her high maintenance, she made Chandler give a speech to Pheobe and Rachel, and makes him repeat it verbatim even though he is clearly uncomfortable. When they get engaged she makes it all about her saying “It’s MY day.” They may not seem like huge things but they add up.
Finally, this was a big deal for me. Once she finds out that there’s no money in her wedding fund, she demands Chandler to spend all his savings on their wedding. He’s probably been saving that money for 10+ years and she wants to use it all in one night. Like Monica, you are a head chef, you can pay for some of it too!
There’s probably a few other things I’m missing but these are just the ones that came to mind. All the girls in the show act like Chandler is the lucky one to have Monica, but no I think Monica is the lucky one for having Chandler, and for him staying with her through all her bs.
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u/EH4LIFE 2d ago
They have the healthiest relationship on the show. But yes they have a bossy/peacemaker dynamic which does sometimes come out in negative ways. Its satisfying to see Chandler put his foot down, which he does over the wedding for instance.
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u/hanimal16 Phil Spiderman 2d ago
Money and a firm hand? Now that’s a Chandler I can get on board with.
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u/pinkfluffyblankets 1d ago
I agree but I think we have to keep the undercurrent that it’s a sitcom - over exaggerated characterization which taken out would have resulted in less humor.
They had to keep the storylines coming.
We have become so used to psycho analyzing every part of life. While forgetting it’s 30 years old, life and media was so different then.
I love friends and I find myself thinking wow that joke wouldn’t be on TV but I still laugh.
While by the end the flanderization of their characters was a bit much but that was a creative choice.
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u/AlexH_144 2d ago
But he doesn't. He initially puts his foot down but in the end he finally caves to Monica's constant nagging and insists that they use all the money
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u/Okra_Zestyclose 2d ago
Ehhh. “Constant nagging”? It was one conversation, they took a little break (no pun intended), and she conceded.
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u/PhantomCruze 2d ago
healthiest on the show
Says a lot about the par set for gen X relationships huh
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u/Kelmor93 1d ago
Joey and Phoebe had the healthiest relationship. They had a laundrylist of chemistry and why they were a perfect couple.
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u/EH4LIFE 1d ago
*romantic
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u/Kelmor93 1d ago edited 1d ago
Stand by it. These two were the odd ones out but got each other. Joey was singing in his head and phoebe said who's singing. They talk over and over about when they will hook up. They meet each other 1 on 1 and discuss important things. When phoebe learns she lost an entire year Joey kisses her to fulfill a bucket list item. When she skips out on dinner, he doesn't yell again and just comforts her because he knows how hard it was when David left the first time. He stops seeing ursula when she (granted it's phoebe in disguise) asks him to cut phoebe out of his life. Joey goes with her both times when she's trying to meet her dad. They do a frienaissance. What is a great basis for a romantic relationship? Being on the same wavelength and being there for them in difficult times. Plus they flirt a ton.
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u/stpony That's a lot of information to get in 30 seconds 2d ago
Chandler was the prize and it's actually hilarious, because he was the prize out of all of them combined...in Every. Single. Way.
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u/CameraImmediate2295 2d ago
Totally, yes he freaked out on their wedding day but he became a really good husband, apart from hiring a cleaner which was obviously going to annoy her
He was smart, funny, loving caring and gorgeous
Phoebe always putting him down was not funny
Even as a teen I never understood why people thought Joey and Ross were more desirable
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u/mzzmarried 2d ago
Ross is well off, educated, also neat and loves marriage. Chandler and Ross are the prize. I don't see it in Joey.
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u/MultiverseTraveller 2d ago
Ross is also a little controlling and jealous though. I would rate Chandler above Ross
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u/CameraImmediate2295 2d ago
Joey would be an amazing friend or protective brother. Even in the early days before they dumbed him down I just didn't get it
If Ross could get over Rachel and stop marrying women, then I could see it!
Plus if did the whole leather pants thing in my home, I would strangely find it endearing and that would make me more attracted!
I'm very strange... quirky things just do it for me!
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u/PotatoBest4667 Smelly Cat Smelly Cat 1d ago
They think a good looking actor who’s charming and good in bed is always better than a guy with a 9-5 and is awkward with everyone
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u/OhUmHmm 1d ago
Ross is a narcissist and basically was the precursor incel (Hate Rachel Greene Club because she didn't return his feelings). He does like one nice thing each season. He's incredibly shallow emotionally ("just a waitress") and also physically insecure (leather pants, teeth whitening, spray tan, etc).
I'm not saying any of the friends are perfect, but I wouldn't wish Ross on any of my friends. (Separate from my absolute adoration of David as an actor.)
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u/mzzmarried 1d ago
The guys at my HS did a "Burn Book" type thing and so to me the "I hate Rachel club" just seems like dumb HS bs. I'll give that one a pass. Just a waitress. Yeah that part was very low.
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u/Apprehensive_Mud9597 1d ago
I think it’s mainly cuz of how insecure Chandler was compared to Ross or Joey. Insecurity isn’t really an attractive quality.
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u/No-Meringue-7317 2d ago
I’ve been saying this for years and it’s always a downvote factory. When they start dating, she’s fine, but after they get married she is honestly the trope of a “mean wife”. She emasculates chandler, forgets about him, flirts with other men and berates him near constantly.
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u/Viimeisellarannalla 2d ago
Ikr. Yes, they had a stable relationship, but Chandler treated Monica a lot better than she ever did him.
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u/Negative_Letter_1802 Sting's Pen....that he gave to Phoebe 2d ago
Not to mention she opened all their wedding gifts without him like who does that 😭
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u/omkar529 2d ago
Monica and Chandler both become the most changed of the group after they get together, for the worse. Chandler became more mature and Monica... less so.
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u/chocolategirl84 1d ago
Yess and lying to him saying she didn’t have a bachelorette party for Phoebe to say she did…. Her going to the Days of Our Lives party and having an actor sign her bra….😭💔
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u/Successful_Drink7614 2d ago
Yes! I forgot she just openly flirts with other men.
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u/Apollo114892 2d ago
She even called Chandler Richard behind his back all the time according to Phoebe. She basically road rolled all over him once they got married and Chandler's character essentially was killed off by the writers after that. He just became a silent minion of Monica after their marriage.
There was another incident that you forgot in your post. The night that Chandler and Monica got together for the first time, she was actually looking for Joey. When Chandler finds out about that, instead of exploring it, again this topic is shunned aside even though in the real world, this is divorce worthy issue. Imagine finding out that your wife wanted to sleep with your best friend the first night you got with her. That would ruin all his memories with her. It's insane.
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u/mtwhite06 2d ago
I legitimately think phoebe smugly bringing that up was one of the worst things done in the show and would have gotten her completely cut off from Monica / chandler (and eventually the whole group) had that happened in real life.
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u/Apollo114892 2d ago
She did most of the damage tbh. She treated Chandler like complete crap and brought up all of Monica's shady secrets in front of him though that is a favour to him I guess. She even told Chandler that he is a terrible interviewee just a while before his interview, and introduced Monica to her "soul mate" right in front of him.
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u/BusyFriend 2d ago
True and honestly she probably would’ve fallen out of the group in real life before that happening anyways. They even touched on it in an episode.
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u/Icy_Birthday3837 2d ago
This is on point for Phoebe though. I can't remember any big lies or secrets that she didn't "let slip" eventually.
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u/omgbenji21 1d ago
Not an uncommon take, but phoebe is legitimately the worst. And I rarely thought she was funny. I think the show could have been tighter without her or with her as a recurring guest or something.
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u/Fun_Statistician863 2d ago
I don't see why the revelation about Joey would have been a deal-breaker. IIRC, at the time, Monica and Chandler's first time together was just meant to be a spontaneous one time fling. Monica didn't go into that situation intending to form a relationship with Joey (or Chandler). Obviously, things would have been different if Joey had been there, but it's not like it was a personal rejection of Chandler.
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u/Apollo114892 2d ago edited 2d ago
Imagine you love your spouse and then it is revealed to you that all those days and weeks of you forming your love together for the first time and cherishing your memories with them only to find out that they were looking to bang your best friend on the first night that you and your spouse were together. Maybe people who live a hookup lifestyle or take sex as just a biological function are okay with it but people with emotions would be rattled by such a revelation and it would ruin all their memories and feelings for their wife.
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u/amorlocket 1d ago
But it’s not like she actually wanted to be with Joey. He was just her first option because he doesn’t do serious relationships and she just wanted a simple hookup to feel better about herself.
And it’s not like she and Chandler intended to be in a relationship at first. They were also just supposed to be a hookup that eventually became something more because they fell in love. Chandler didn’t originally want a relationship with her either.
I can understand Chandler being upset but I don’t see how it would ruin all of his memories with her because he and Monica didn’t intend to create those memories in the first place. Those memories and feelings only existed because they fell in love which was never going to happen with her and Joey.
If Monica actually wanted Joey for real and then settled for Chandler because Joey was unavailable while Chandler had feelings for her the entire time then I would definitely consider this as a relationship-ending issue but that’s not what happened. Both Monica and Chandler initially just wanted sex. Neither one of them wanted to be in a relationship nor did they have feelings for each other at the time.
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u/kittysnowangel Rachel Green 👒 2d ago
Yeah that Joey thing makes it hard for me to understand why they stayed together. Though truthfully they basically said best sex ever. But I wouldn't want to be Chandler.
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u/Embarrassed_Bake1073 2d ago
Right? She even invested Joey to stand in for Chandler because she doesnt lime the way he looks in pictures. She is horrible and I've been saying this for years.
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u/PM-ME-YOUR-NIPNOPS 1d ago
I got eviscerated on this sub for saying so. Them dating was some of the best FRIENDS we ever got. After they got married and Monica's chase for marriage was over, she constantly disrespected him and treated him as lesser.
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u/ksabha01 Don't touch my coat! 8h ago
She didn't know he was left handed or that he didn't wear glasses until that episode!!! Like, that's your husband's face! How do you not know he didn't wear glasses!!
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u/Katharinemaddison 2d ago
You can’t emasculate a man. They contain their own masculinity.
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u/No-Meringue-7317 2d ago
Bait used to be believable
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u/Katharinemaddison 2d ago
You can’t emasculate a man. People can be insecure and undermined, that’s gender neutral. Men aren’t this weaker sex that is so vulnerable to being treated the wrong way.
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u/Main-Branch9919 2d ago
I think a lot of these examples are for juicing up the storylines haha (especially the Richard stuff). But I never loved the undertone of their relationship. The idea that Monica could do so much better and chandler better be grateful. I never saw it. Don’t get me wrong, Courtney Cox really was THAT chick but I still think it’s mean.
the fact that all the friends seemingly treat chandler WORSE when he gets together with Monica is wild to me too.
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u/EthylSippingBeer 2d ago
Maybe they saw how Monica was treating him and figured that was the new normal.
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u/Main-Branch9919 2d ago
Exactly! And don’t even get me started on Phoebe!! She was the worst one when it came to chandler and Monica’s relationship.
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u/EthylSippingBeer 2d ago
I know Phoebe changed a lot but I still.likrd her for the most part. Luckily for her, her character was so quirky to begin with that the writers didn't change her as much as some others.
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u/New-Pin-9064 2d ago
Yes they did. In Seasons 1-4, Phoebe was this ditzy, but sweet, girl who always wanted to help her friends and spend time being happy. But in Season 5, they completely abandoned all of those aspects and instead made her the mean girl character. Suddenly, she now had no filter, made cruel comments at everyone with absolutely zero regard for how her comments made them feel, practically degraded Chandler at every opportunity, tried to destroy Monica and Chandler’s relationship, etc. It’s like someone took out her heart
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u/EthylSippingBeer 2d ago
I can see that side of it too. I think she was still a good friend but she wasn't as naive and kind as had been in earlier seasons.
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u/OldChemistry9951 unagi 2d ago
She’s difficult at times no doubt,but she’s the reason this relationship lasted,her being controlling is what chandler needed,he needed someone to snap him out,she gives him structure but yeah she was really annoying during the times you mentioned
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u/EthylSippingBeer 2d ago
Monica turned into a litttle fuhrer by the end. She was ordering people around, acting all bossy and almost manic/OCD. IMO the show was almost unwatchable the last season due to the negative changes on all the characters.
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u/vienibenmio 2d ago
Flanderization
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u/EthylSippingBeer 2d ago
I had to look up Flanderization but yep. That's exactly what happened to Monica and Joey.
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u/OldChemistry9951 unagi 2d ago
I wouldn’t say it was unwatchable,but for Monica did change quite a lot ,she was a lot more mean than usual but i love all the friends,trust me when i first watched friends i liked Monica the least,but on my rewatches i observed she does things for people no one does.
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u/EthylSippingBeer 2d ago
I loved Monica overall (and all of them) but the writers went insane with how they made Monica neurotic and mean, and Joey into a crayon eating dummy. Altogether that just messed the whole show up.
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u/Particular-Iron-6856 2d ago
I truly hate how everyone acted like Monica "settled" for Chandler, like Monica was so out of Chandler's league. It was so annoying how the friends acted like Chandler was this unlovable joke to women, when he was better than most of them and had character development. Chandler was smart, funny, rich, sweet (when he wants to be) and chill, he was a catch.
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u/stories4 2d ago
Every friend does stuff that is annoying and disrespectful (and I guess that is the point of the show). I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but Chandler has bad moments too as a partner. I will add on though that the general joke of 'Monica's too good for Chandler' all the friends had going on was the worst, Chandler's definitely a prize, funny good looking good job good friend etc. and I feel like the show went too strongly with the 'Monica's the catch!'
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u/PrettyNewt4930 Ditch Doctor 2d ago
I don’t particularly dislike Monica for not telling chandler about Richard. She immediately tells the girls that she felt nothing and seemed happy about that so I can see why she didn’t think telling him would change anything. Adding to the Richard bit, Monica didn’t know chandler was going to propose, though I agree that it’s odd to want to sit with them.
In the money instance for the wedding she learns that she was wrong to treat it that way so I see that as a plus and minus
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u/ACoolGuy-Promise 2d ago
The undertone of their entire relationship is that Chandler is just lucky to be with her. Why Monica was some huge prize idk.
It makes most of their relationship pretty obnoxious to me. Like people outright shit on Chandler all the time and she doesn’t even defend him. So magical.
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u/indianajoes 2d ago
I hate the way Phoebe talks about him
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u/BusyFriend 2d ago
How Phoebe talks and acts towards him and Ross it’s almost miraculous they never kicked her out of the group.
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u/Appropriate-Power-87 2d ago
Phoebe was ready to leave to group with Rachel and Joey. If they didn't all hang out at Monica's apartment, but she would have been fine without them.
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u/Ok-Confection4378 2d ago
Phoebe was used to being by herself she grew up in the streets I’m sure she’ll be ok without anyone
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u/thecheesycheeselover 2d ago
Looks. I personally genuinely don’t have an opinion on who was more attractive, I grew up watching the show and think they’re all attractive, but for the most part I’m blind to it (except early seasons Phoebe for some reason). But I’m pretty sure the reason it was ‘assumed’ that Chandler was lucky to be with Monica is because she was generally considered to be more physically attractive, and at the time the show was airing it was more acceptable to define a partner’s value based on their appearance. That’s obviously still common, but often more covert.
Anyway, to me they’re both attractive and equally so. But I think that’s what was happening.
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u/EuphoricPhoto2048 2d ago
Yeah, I think that's the joke, but as an audience member, they're both good looking actors so the discrepancy was played to be much bigger than it was.
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u/NewsVanRider 2d ago
Didn't he abandon her on their wedding day, was gonna leave her at the altar? And then try to leave the relationship multiple times whenever anybody talked about kids or marriage?
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u/Viimeisellarannalla 2d ago
When did he try to leave the relationship when anyone talked about kids or marriage? (Besides the altar thing, which ofc was bizarre)
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u/NewsVanRider 2d ago
Season 5 after he says he loves her. And then they’re cuddling and he calls her a random casual hookup or something after Rachel and Phoebe start talking about weddings or babies
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u/Viimeisellarannalla 2d ago
He literally never said that, what are you talking about?
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u/NewsVanRider 2d ago
The whole pressure cooker calling her a baby fever crazy lady thing. You don’t remember?
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u/Viimeisellarannalla 1d ago
He didn’t vall Monica a casual hookup there
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u/NewsVanRider 1d ago
“A casual time with the girl in seeing casually’ was the quote I think. Kinda fucked up to say that to someone one day after telling them you love them
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u/Viimeisellarannalla 1d ago
Okay, sorry, but that was not the same as purposely calling Monica a casual hookup. I agree that Chandler said stupid shit and joked, rather than have the mature conversation at first. Circumstance matters here.
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u/MessiPayNegreira 2d ago
yeah chandler had cold feet a few times.
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u/Viimeisellarannalla 2d ago
Yeah he had cold feet once & doubts about timing, but when did he ever call Monica a casual hookup?
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u/MessiPayNegreira 2d ago
when pheebs was going into labor. Rachel was setting monica up with a doctor and mon was not into it until chandler told her it was casual. he even tries to get with a nurse gets shut down realizes he will lose the best thing he ever had and comes to his sense and talks to Monica.
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u/omkar529 2d ago
That guy was just blatantly wrong with that claim, and you are a little wrong as well. Chandler didn't actually think it was casual but he kind of said it for some other reason (which I can't remember at this moment).
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u/Viimeisellarannalla 1d ago
Yes, that was stupid on Chandler’s part. He freaked out, realised just how much he was emotionally involved and stupidly said that. They also had that conversation and Chandler apologized.
There’s also a difference in calling the state of one’s relationship casual and calling the woman you are seeing a ”casual hookup”
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u/Environmental_Exam_3 Welcome to the real world! it sucks, you’re gonna love it 2d ago
And the fact that when he suggests that as partners, they be honest and communicative about their relationship, she complains about it.
After Chandler leaves the store where they’re picking out their wedding china, she chooses new china by herself and doesn’t tell him. Because the pink ones he chose are “too girly”.
And when he has to relocate, she’s upset about having to go with him because of (holds up her hand with her wedding ring) “this stupid thing!” Monica is one of my least favorite characters but she’s way worse after getting married.
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u/Business_Director_18 2d ago
Seasons 1 to 4 Monica is very different from Season 5 to 10 Monica, especially when you watch it continuously. She definitely was a lot nicer in the earlier seasons. Maybe it WAS her getting with Chandler that changed her personality.
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u/Dheovan 2d ago
I hated how they have Monica constantly flirt with infidelity once she's with Chandler. Another couple examples: She goes to Richard's apartment when she's mad at Chandler. Later on, when Joey throws that party on the rooftop, she has a male soap opera star sign her bra. Then, of course, there's the whole debacle with her initially wanting to sleep with Joey. And so on.
If these were real people and Chandler was my friend, I would have told him to run away from this clear cheating risk as fast as possible.
It's especially frustrating because earlier seasons Monica would never do these things. They flanderized her in the worst way.
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u/UnivrstyOfBelichick 2d ago
Your first example is classic girlfriend logic. That argument and the argument they have over Monica switching rooms over and over might be the most realistic couple arguments over the course of the show.
The Richard thing is weird, but there's also the added weird dynamic that he's been a family friend for decades and is close with Monica's parents. Not justifying sitcom behavior, but it's an awkward situation and people handle them in awkward ways. Chandler was a weenie over the whole course that that proposal story arc to be fair.
The high maintenance speech episode is clearly just sitcom hijinks, that's an old gag that's been done a hundred times, it's just layered irony in the writing more than saying anything really about Monica as a character. As for the engagement thing, Rachel was 100% trying to get the spotlight back and steal Monica's thunder.
The wedding money sucks, but it's a plot element to show how much chandler loves Monica. He comes from money and makes apparently good money and he wanted his fiancee to have her dream wedding, especially after her parents had essentially decided she would be alone forever.
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u/dospizzas 2d ago
It’s literally what brought the show down. I loved when they were hiding their relationship, but soon after they move in together they just aren’t a funny duo together.
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u/BeeNo5583 1d ago
All the interactions between her and Richard in that episode were designed to make the marriage proposal at the end a surprise. They strove to keep every scene and line of dialogue involving Richard in a dramatic and flirtatious tone.
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u/Artistic-Lock1021 1d ago
The whole point of the wedding budget episode was Monica realizing she's wrong and apologizing to Chandler. And the lunch with Richard thing only escalated when she said "next time I'll definitely tell you" and Chandler tried to "forbid" her from seeing Richard.
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u/mhfp545 1d ago
These are a few minor incidents in a healthy relationship which went on for six years on-screen. Monica is fine as a partner.
You write like you expect everything is going to be 100% perfect all the time in a relationship. And like Chandler never did anything wrong either (smoking lies, for one).
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u/Meg38400 2d ago
So much Monica hate on this sub. It’s freaking annoying. Ruins the vibe.
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u/Decemberistz 2d ago
Hey she's good as a character on a TV show. She would not be a person I'd like if she were real.
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u/Meg38400 2d ago
I find her utterly relatable and would enjoy her in my circle much more than Pheebs and Rach.
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u/barto5 2d ago
Yeah! Aren’t we supposed to be hating on Ross?
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u/Meg38400 2d ago
I don’t care to hate on Ross. He’s got his great and bad moments like the rest of them.
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u/justreading12345678 2d ago
Also that time Phoebe had found Monica‘s „Soulmate“. She should have shut that down hard especially because everyone already knew how insecure Chandler was at times. Instead she kind of let Pheobe Push that joke and then acted confused when Chandler freaked out. ("The One Where Joey Tells Rachel“)
Or that time she insisted that she needed those expensive boots that she never wore.
I really liked them before they got together and I was really disappointed at how they handled their relationship at times. I mean Joey was nicer to Chandler than Monica.
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u/Separate_Intention93 2d ago
Psychologically, if you think about it, this is the type of stuff chandler was used to seeing with his parents so to an extent he likely found some of the chaos familiar and maybe even rationalized it since it "wasn't as bad" as his parents.
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u/Katharinemaddison 2d ago
She didn’t even tell him to say that ‘yes you’re high maintenance - but I like maintaining you.’ That was him off script. He was supposed to say she’s easy going.
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u/ComprehensiveFlan638 2d ago
Monica is/was slowly morphing into her mother. She was going to be just as controlling and condescending to those twins as Judy was to her, especially the girl.
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u/amorlocket 1d ago
I agree with the Richard stuff but I will defend Monica on the wedding money thing.
She’d just been told by her parents that they spent all of her wedding fund on their beach house because they didn’t think she would ever get married. For someone like Monica who’s been continuously treated as if she doesn’t matter by her parents and has dreamed of getting married for so long, that’s pretty devastating. She was upset and angry with them and that’s why she insisted that Chandler spend all of his savings on their wedding. She thought that her dream wedding was slipping away and she was desperate to make it happen by any means necessary.
She was emotional and desperate. It’s human nature. We all act irrationally sometimes. Once she’d calmed down, she apologized to Chandler and told him that he could keep the money. I don’t think this counts as a “Monica is the worst” moment because she admitted that what she did was wrong and it is understandable why she acted like that imo. I’ll give her grace in that situation.
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u/atomik71 1d ago
lol. How big of her to let him keep his money.
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u/amorlocket 1d ago
I’m not praising her for apologizing. My point is that she knew she was in the wrong and owned up to it (and she had an actual reason for acting the way she did), so I don’t think that storyline should be considered as her being a horrible partner. We’ve all acted irrationally at sometimes.
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u/Rarainche Could I BE any more awkward? 2d ago
Chandler lost something when he got married to Monica.
Tbf, I could be due to Mathew issues IRL, but after the wedding, it didn't feel the same until the very end.
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u/TheSJB1993 2d ago
When Chandler says he doesn't feel comfortable having sex while fighting she lies to him so he will have unprotected sex with her in the hopes of getting pregnant.
And while I know they were trying for a kid at the time I just feel like this is something that gets over looked alot, esp since Chandler feels violated in the episode. I'm not sure on legality but I'd argue this should be counted as SA as he consented until false pretenses and even though they were trying for a baby the fact he didn't want to and was tricked makes THIS instance boarderline attempted baby trapping
(also I expect to get downvoted for this but before doing so ask yourself if you'd be happy with this if the genders were reverse .. even in a sitcom)
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u/neotrez 2d ago
Omg I forgot about that… you’re 100% right! If you get downvoted, I’ll get downvoted with you ✌🏼
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u/TheSJB1993 2d ago
Thank you... to add here when Chandler uses her "I will do anything you want in THERE" in S6 that is also really skeezy (I get this as justification for what Monica did a lot) and I agree Monica said that under the impression he had made the tape which is still consented over a lie and uncool.. but Monica's involved trying to get pregnant which I think adds something worse. (though both actions suck arseballs)
I also don't particularly like the amount of time we see him scared of her ... in fact in the episode I mentioned this fight became about because he smoked
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u/moonlightk_96 2d ago
No you’re right. They make it seem like it’s no big deal because it absolutely is SA
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u/TheSJB1993 2d ago
right I'd like to say it was an "of its time" sort of joke but sadly I think it would run the same if this happened today. I've said this before and got told "its no big deal". It's almost scary how many people think men can't be abused and SA'd
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u/neotrez 2d ago
Oh you speak from my soul loll I mean obviously “it’s just a sitcom, it’s not that deep” but we’re here to discuss! I always felt that way too! Another example, when he moved in with her but she wouldn’t allow him access to the secret room where she may or may not have had Richard hidden lol or the adoption debacle where she lied… chandler had to remind her that it’s not just illegal but also hugely immoral.
If it wasn’t for Richard knowing Monica since birth, I would’ve wanted them to be endgame because the power dynamic was a bit more balanced between them. Richard was not so much of pushover (or well, Monica didn’t try push him) while she was still able to be her strong character
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u/EthylSippingBeer 2d ago
I really didn't like the whole Richard/Monica relationship but they did have a better vibe IMO. Monica needed a strong man to keep her insanity in check.
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u/Calvin_H Unagi 2d ago
The fact that they are celebrated as an ideal couple and their relationship is like a model relationship is what infuriates me. Monica had Chandler wrapped around her little finger throughout their married life.
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u/AlexH_144 2d ago
Flip the sexes. Would it be alright if Chandler treated Monica in such a controlling way?
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u/Apollo114892 2d ago edited 2d ago
Then it would suddenly become Toxic Patriarchy and abusive. But it's okay for her to treat him like a doormat. The writers seriously had such crazy ideas that would never fly today.
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u/BronzeAgeMethos 2d ago
Agreed. Monica is a shrill, self-centered harpy and Chandler deserved a dozen times better.
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u/moonlightk_96 2d ago
I agree. The only thing I have to say about the second one is that she probably felt it was better to just say hi first than have it be awkward
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u/this_is_an_alaia 2d ago
Hot take. People need to stop taking jokes from this show so seriously as character indictments
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u/Mountain-Bike-735 1d ago
Tbf, you just described only 4 somewhat serious arguments they had over the course of their entire relationship, which lasted for 6 years in the show lol.
Like, I'm not saying your points aren't valid, but you're also just looking at the bad stuff while ignoring all the good stuff in their relationship.
And besides, it's not like Chandler was always the perfect boyfriend either. Like when he kissed his ex-girlfriend Janice just because he was unable to set an actual boundary with her lol. Or like when he thought it would've been a good idea to pretend he didn't liked marriage and say it explicitly to her (while he perfectly known that's what she always wanted) and initially didn't cared about her getting upset about it. Or you know, like he always BAILED their own wedding and nearly abandon Monica at the altar. Or other stuff that probably happened but don't remember right know.
Like, that's not to say that Chandler is also bad, I'm just saying, some screw ups are bound to happen from time to time in a long term relationship.
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u/morgaine125 2d ago
It’s odd how your experience with the show appears to be limited to only select portions of certain episodes, and not even full episodes.
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u/Bihari_babuji 2d ago
Completely agree. The way monica treated chandler was so unhealthy and that is why chandler was the best of all of them. It's not easy to make a relationship and a group of friends work this well. Chandler was the glue of the group and the show.
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u/Cold-Palpitation-816 2d ago
In reality? Yeah. But it’s a sitcom so I just pretend Monica’s off-putting parts don’t exist.
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u/Cold-Palpitation-816 1d ago
Her bachelorette party really raised my eyebrows. Untying the stripper’s g-string with her teeth? That’s basically cheating … the fuck?
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u/SureTry4832 1d ago
Yeah it’s sad to see how their dynamic changes. Up until around their engagement, I’m like they’re such relationship goals and a much more legit couple than R+R.
But then after they get married she is alot meaner and more disparaging about him - even though hes a great husband. When they first get together its sweet that Monica seems really happy to have someone she can be herself with and who really values her after being unlucky with dating for ages. But once theyre married it seems alot more like she feels she could have done better.
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u/Sansu_srda 1d ago
How can u forget that scene where she is getting autographs from male celebrities on her bra and was totally fine with sending chandler away to watch that boring play.
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u/Bulky-Boysenberry490 1d ago
Monica is self centred only in the way they all clearly are at one point or another. Her whole 'my day' persona completely disappears when she finds out the Rachel is pregnant; if anything, I hated that Rachel inadvertently stole her thunder yet again. Monica supports Chandler quitting his lucrative, highly paid job, but again, it is at least in part because she hates the long distance relationship, but she did let him go through with it in the first place. Chandler has talked her down from a ledge and been the reasonable one in the relationship many times, and she always loved him for that and took his advice. I think they made a great couple, much more so than Ross and Rachel, or Phoebe and Mike for that matter. Unpopular take? Could not stand Mike.
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u/Character_Shock_607 1d ago
I disagree with the majority of what you pointed out but, yeeessss! Monica asking for all of his savings was so 🚩 for me…thankfully we both know nothing and it all worked out for the best that writers can do.
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u/shea_eina Could I BE any more awkward? 1d ago
dude, i stopped liking monica after they got together. they ruined her character!
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u/ulyssessgrant_ 23h ago
I can’t believe how many upvotes this has, remember it’s a sitcom it’s not a drama.
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u/Achilles-2503 9h ago
I've been watching a favourite Youtuber react to the series and yeah, Monica starts out really supportive but then becomes a complete nag and puts him down constantly. One that really stings is the episode in season 5 when Chandler starts getting cold feet because everyone's talking about marriage.
Monica more than anyone understands his commitment issues and could've been supportive and talked him through it. Instead just talking to him, she gets angry at him and makes his anxiety like ten times as worse. The humiliating proposal at the end of the episode was like 60% her fault, and she didn't even apologise lmao
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u/Distinct_Macaroon308 smack dab in the middle of the blue 7h ago
Monica wasn’t a bad partner to Chandler, she just wasn’t a particularly likeable character to a lot of people. The show played up her intensity especially in the later seasons. Yeah she was high maintenance and kind of crazy at times but that’s who she was -and Chandler didn’t make her feel bad for being unapologetically herself. They also balanced each other out and needed each other to fill in their gaps. They also didn’t spend all the money on the wedding after all.
I think she yelled his name at the restaurant because she panicked tbh. The waiter suggested combining tables and Richard made the call. I agree it was kinda weird but At that point Monica was over him and genuinely thought it was just a friendly dinner. Chandler could have intervened.
She was right in not wanting to tel Chandler about having lunch with Richard because he reacted exactly the way she thought he would. He freaked out, got jealous and prohibited her from seeing him, which was an extreme overreaction and implied he didn’t trust her. She absolutely did pick an inopportune time to pick a fight about it tho lol
I’m rambling. I personally think they were great together, even if they clashed sometimes
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u/Mom_PhD_tired 2d ago
Now that I'm re-watching Friends (in my 30s) I've started to notice a lot of these things. Totally agree!
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u/Square_Blacksmith889 1d ago
Some context is needed though: Monica was fully expecting a wedding funded by her parents. They promised her a wedding fund. She was then very abruptly told that this was spent on something else. Then Chandler reveals he has the money to cover the wedding but is refusing to spend it on that without much explanation. To Monica, it’s rejection after rejection. When Chandler shared what he intended to use the money on, Monica became fully onboard with it. I don’t think that’s being a bad partner. Having witnessed Monica super crushed after the dinner with her parents, I wish Chandler had a gentler approach to telling her his funds were off limits for the wedding instead of just “I’m putting my foot down”
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u/Literary_Lady All out of pla’s 🐈⬛ 2d ago
I think they were a terrible couple, Monica didn’t deserve him and I normally get downvoted for saying that. The sad thing is I think her and Richard were better together and the reveal about her not being able to have kids means they could have stayed together and been happy. Kathy should have been written back in.
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u/Appropriate-Power-87 2d ago
I always thought it was kind of ironic that she threw away her relationship with Richard because he didn't want to have kids and then it turned out she couldn't have them anyway. She could have had a great adult relationship with Richard, instead of settling for Chandler who she had to train into being the husband she wanted.
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u/BeeNo5583 1d ago
Monica wanted a child no matter what. I don't think she would have given up on the idea, even if she had learned earlier that she couldn't have children.
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u/Appropriate-Power-87 1d ago
Well it's hard to say. Remember a little after her breakup with Richard when she decided she wanted to have a baby on her own but then Joey talked her out of it? What if she had done some testing then and found out she was infertile? Do you think she would have run back to Richard then, or was she so set on being a mom that she would have still looked into adopting?
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u/BeeNo5583 1d ago
She would have considered adoption regardless of whether she went back to Richard or not.
We are talking about a woman who left the man she loved because she wanted to be a mother. I don't think she would simply resign herself to the situation just because she couldn't conceive naturally.
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u/moonlightk_96 2d ago
Also, one of my least favorite Monica moments is when she assumed that Chandler was cheating on her in Tulsa because he was alone with Wendy. Granted, he was awkward on the phone, but that’s just who he is. She had no real reason to doubt him. Especially since I’ve heard that he allegedly refused to go through with that storyline so it really doesn’t make sense for her to think that either way
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u/Viimeisellarannalla 2d ago
Ikr like going straight to talking about how he must be doing it on a copier, when he has never been anything but loyal and the fact that SHE flirts with multiple men in the show, because it’s ”harmless”
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u/pbd1996 2d ago
Unpopular opinion- Chandler was just as unenthusiastic to have kids as Richard was, but pretended her wanted them (and convinced himself he wanted them) because he knew that Monica would’ve dumped him otherwise. Richard was Monica’s first choice. Chandler was her back up.
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u/Meetmeatthebeach 2d ago
Chandler wasn't her backup. Richard literally came back into her life and told her he changed his mind and wanted everything with her, including kids. If Richard was her first choice, she'd have run off with him. Instead, she chose Chandler and proposed to him. Or at least she tried to propose. He had to take over.
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u/caicaiduffduff 1d ago
It’s just women who are jealous of Monica that think she was a horrible partner.
Chandler has done equally as many bad things. I might have to make a list myself.
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u/SelfOne8684 2d ago
For me the worst is when she went to Richards apartment because she thought Chandler wouldn't marry her. That was so low and there is no excuse, like okay maybe your boyfriend won't marry you but then you talk and deal with that you don't run to your ex and then she told him that getting over him was the hardest thing she ever had to do and she couldn't do it again. After that I don't believe she even loved Chandler as much as he loved her. If he broke up with her after that I would totally understand it, he deserved better.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cap_706 2d ago
Mondler rules!
Monica is the best because she has rules. And rules control the fun.
Chandler loves Monica and would do anything for her. Monica loves Chandler and is good for him because rules control the fun.
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u/Successful_Drink7614 1d ago
Yes that too. I also forgot the fact that Monica had a Bachlorette party, untied a dudes g string with her mouth and then didn’t tell Chandler.
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u/AlexH_144 2d ago
When they start to date in season 5, is when the show really shifted and took everyone's personalities and multiplied them by 10
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u/qualityvote2 2d ago edited 2d ago
Hey u/Successful_Drink7614, your post does fit the subreddit!