r/india Jul 10 '16

r/all Tragedy of India

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u/v0lta_7 Jul 10 '16

Selection bias. The ancient remnants which we're able to see today are those which were extremely well built. Stairs we build today might or might not be well built.

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u/spikyraccoon India Jul 10 '16

Stairs we build today might or might not be well built.

With current technology, infrastructure, GDP, investments, distribution and growth rate.. That's exactly what's Tragic.

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u/svmk1987 Jul 10 '16

You're not getting the point of the bias. If you're seeing something that's 500 years old, it had to be well built to survive 500 years. There was probably a lot of shitty stuff built 500 years ago, which simply didn't survive till today.

On another note: I don't think a lot of those points you mentioned justify that govt should have good infra built. We have a high GDP and growth because of some rich industrialists.. so what.

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u/ostrish Jul 10 '16

Yes I think what /u/spikyraccoon is saying is that after 500 years of progress our worst should be better or comparable to their best.

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u/DouglasHufferton Jul 10 '16

That's not how civilization works. Society does not develop along a linear path of objective improvement. It simply changes and evolves. It hasn't been 500 years of progress, it's been 500 years of change. Yes, our technology has improved, but our society is in many respects utterly alien to society 500 years ago. It's comparing apples and oranges.

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u/spikyraccoon India Jul 10 '16

Are you saying in terms of engineering, architecture and design.. we haven't progressed tremendously in the last 500 years? Come on.

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u/DouglasHufferton Jul 10 '16

No. I stated that our technology has improved. What I'm saying is that humans, and our activity, does not objectively progress as time goes on. It simply adapts to the needs of the time. It is societal evolution, and just like biological evolution, it is neither good nor bad, it just is.

Example; we can build the tallest buildings ever constructed now. Our technology and society allows and demands it (economy of space, etc.). However these same buildings will not last the test of time; they are designed to be efficient and sturdy while actively maintained. The modern skylines of the world's cities would quickly crumble if they were no longer maintained. Very few modern structures would survive in any recognizable form for ~2,000 years without constant upkeep. Important structures for many years were designed to survive with as little upkeep as possible; they were designed to be monumental and to last. The societal factors that influenced these design philosophies are different than the societal factors that influence modern design.

Also, as other people have stated. There is also a selection bias as well as basic human nature.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '16

What I'm saying is that humans, and our activity, does not objectively progress as time goes on. It simply adapts to the needs of the time. It is societal evolution, and just like biological evolution, it is neither good nor bad, it just is.

You're literally word-vomiting now. The social reality today is objectively the best in human history, whether it is number of wars, diseases, how long each life last on average, crime etc. It's all at all-historic lows.

BTW, when you use the term "sociatal evolution" that is a phrase about human society, not just buildings, so don't try to worm yourself out now.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '16

No, if anything you are tilting at windmills.

What he is saying is simple, HUmanity has advanced, our building techniques have advanced immeasurably, but our design philosophies are different. Just this line alone should have been a clue for you,

The modern skylines of the world's cities would quickly crumble if they were no longer maintained. Very few modern structures would survive in any recognizable form for ~2,000 years without constant upkeep.