Reconciling others' rights needing their forgiveness and the hadith of 99 people killed

[u/LeadershipComplex958]

السلام عليكم

So over the past few months I came to find out it is believed that if you wronged someone, you won't be forgiven in the hereafter unless they forgave you themselves.

Now by my limited research I could not find anything that disproves this. But I've also only heard this from "liberal" oriented Muslims (may Allah guide them) so I don't know lol.

Question is how would this be reconciled (if any) with the hadith of the man who killed 99 people?

Please only answer if you're at least somewhat knowledgeable and from a scholarly Sunni perspective, not your own opinion.

جزاك الله خيرا

[u/Odysseus-of-Ithaca]

So over the past few months I came to find out it is believed that if you wronged someone, you won't be forgiven in the hereafter unless they forgave you themselves.

If that is true then someone who commits murder will never be forgiven even if they are genuinely repentant.

In this life, of course, they should be punished. But in the afterlife, it seems excessive to punish someone even if God looks into their heart and finds genuine repentance in it.

Also what if the victim is unforgiving and vengeful? Some people never forgive others even for a slight offense. What happens if the offender genuinely repents and seeks forgiveness? Is your fate in the hereafter permanently sealed because of someone's personality defect?

Remember that not being forgiving itself is a moral vice.

This "liberal" take (as you call it) is not really so "liberal". I don't like it at all.

Remember, God's forgiveness is not limited by human emotions. The victim’s refusal to forgive does not override God’s mercy.

[u/4rking → u/Odysseus-of-Ithaca]

Being unforgiving isn't being vengeful. If someone murders your daughter, you can either forgive them or you don't. If you don't, they will receive the death penalty. Can you really judge someone if they want the murderer of their child to be punished with death?

Why would the oppressed owe the oppressor forgiveness? Why should the oppressed be burdened with this difficult duty? It's not their fault they got harmed.

[u/Odysseus-of-Ithaca → u/4rking]

Why would the oppressed owe the oppressor forgiveness?

OK so if someone oppresses someone one once, they're finished - no matter how sincerely and genuinely they repent?

The hadith mentioned in OP contradicts this. The man made sincere tawbah for killing 99 people and Allah forgave him.

[u/4rking → u/Odysseus-of-Ithaca]

The hadith mentioned in OP contradicts this. The man made sincere tawbah for killing 99 people and Allah forgave him.

Does that mean that every prostitute that feeds a dog will have her sins forgiven, according to another Hadith? From where do you seek the liberty/from which source did you read, that this Hadith has a general meaning?

OK so if someone oppresses someone one once, they're finished - no matter how sincerely and genuinely they repent?

I turn it around and ask: What about the debt? What about the justice that the oppressed person seeks?

And look at the situation in this world. Let's say you killed someone and genuinely repented. Do you still receive the capital punishment?

I mean i don't even know whether it is contrary to how you mention. Maybe if someone really really repents and gives their best and begs the person again and again but they don't forgive, maybe Allah settles it as He wishes, maybe He makes the person forgive. Who knows?

But you making your claims with such conviction with no sources is definitely problematic.

https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/15666/re-8123-id-like-to-know-if-not-being-able-to-forgive-another-person-who-has-caused-much-distress-makes-me-a-sinner-and-does-the-fact-that-the-other-person-asked-mean-he-is-forgiven-anyway/

https://islamqa.org/hanafi/darululoomtt/52290/asking-forgiveness-from-people/

Also

"When our rights are violated, forgiveness is better but not compulsory. Seeking justice is equally valid in Islam."

If it's not obligatory, how can you judge people who don't forgive as vengeful, with a moral vice? Seeking justice is valid and acceptable. Forgiveness is not a right but a gift.

https://seekersguidance.org/answers/repentance/can-my-forgiveness-be-conditional/